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Why Covid19 justifies such dramatic measures

Halbhh

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Such as the NBA suspending its season, or cancellations of all public events with crowds above 100 or even all public events period like Italy.

Is it an overreaction?

Here's why the measures are so drastic, in a nutshell.

A realistic possibility based on quality information shows without strong measures to slow down and greatly reduce the spread of Covid19, it could kill big numbers like 700,000 (* see calculation below) in the U.S. over time.

Of course, we will be doing a lot to try to prevent that, and therefore it's an unlikely outcome. Because we will take serious measures to try to prevent that.

A number of deaths like 700,000 (or higher) is illustrative of the level of what the potential is (not merely 50,000 but an order of magnitude more), and that's what we should work to prevent and reduce by the extent of our measures.

Like the above ending of mass gatherings, but also we can expect plenty of school closures and also other measures, including the very helpful widespread testing of people that even just might have come in contact.

Hopefully we will do the strong measure South Korea has done of massive drive-through testing, which has helped South Korea hold down transmission by detecting transmission better (and how people then isolate after being positive for the virus).

(here's an article on how South Korea has worked differently than Italy:
Mass testing, alerts and big fines: the strategies used in Asia to slow coronavirus
South Korea’s government opted against localised lockdowns, concentrating instead on testing large numbers of people in an attempt to identify infection “hotspots”, along with encouraging social distancing. As one of three designated “special care zones”, Daegu received extra medical supplies and staff, and troops were sent to disinfect the streets.)

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* Here's how the number 700,000 was calculated:

Over time a virus that spreads so easily and quickly would spread to a large portion of the population anywhere -- biostatisticians say 30-60% of entire populations(!)

“People in my field have been saying for well over a month that 30 to 60 percent of the world’s population will get infected,” said Dr. Elizabeth Halloran, a biostatistician at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center and the University of Washington.

But she and other experts said that Ms. Merkel’s estimates were most likely at the high end of the range. The real infection rate will depend on whether measures like social distancing and quarantines reduce the spread of the virus, they said.

Merkel Gives Germans a Hard Truth About the Coronavirus


The rate at which Covid19 can spread is fairly fast:

"People who contract the novel coronavirus emit high amounts of virus very early on in their infection, according to a new study from Germany that helps to explain the rapid and efficient way in which the virus has spread around the world. ...

"Shedding from the upper airways early in infection makes for a virus that is much harder to contain. The scientists said at peak shedding, people with Covid-19 are emitting more than 1,000 times more virus than was emitted during peak shedding of SARS infection, a fact that likely explains the rapid spread of the virus.

-- People 'shed' coronavirus early, but most likely not infectious after recovery


COVID-19 can be spread before it causes symptoms, when it produces symptoms like those of the common cold, and as many as 12 days after recovery, according to a virologic analysis of nine infected patients published today on the preprint server medRxiv.

Also, in a study published in today's Annals of Internal Medicine, researchers at Johns Hopkins found a median incubation period for COVID-19 of 5.1 days—similar to that of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS).

Study highlights ease of spread of COVID-19 viruses

The death rate depends on the average age of a population (and what portion of transmissions are even detected):

Outside of mainland China, Italy now has the highest number of deaths in the world from COVID-19, the disease caused by the new coronavirus. And the country's fatality rate from COVID-19 — at 5% — is much higher than the global average of 3.4%, according to the World Health Organization.

The median age in the country is 47.3, compared with 38.3 in the United States, the Times reported. Many of Italy's deaths have been among people in their 80s, and 90s, a population known to be more susceptible to severe complications from COVID-19, according to The Local.

Why are deaths from coronavirus so high in Italy? | Live Science

But in the far more widespread detection case of South Korea, the death rate is much lower:

This was the case in South Korea, which conducted more than 140,000 tests and found a fatality rate of 0.6%, according to Business Insider.
https://www.livescience.com/why-italy-coronavirus-deaths-so-high.html

Note that South Korea has a lower average age than Italy --
"The median age in South Korea is approximately 41.8 years of age."
https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/south-korea-population/

So.... Let's look at that more optimistic lower range like 0.5-0.6% by taking account of the relatively younger age average in the U.S. population.

For the U.S., we could look at a potential death rate near to 0.5%-0.6%, and if we didn't powerfully slow down the spread the virus could get to 30-60% of the population. Since the U.S. has a population of 327 million, the math says at for instance a ~40% spread level a potential numbers of deaths in a range like 650,000-750,000 for instance. Of course a higher than 40% or lower than 40% spread would proportionally change this range.

That's an example of what could happen without measures like we will likely do to prevent that free spread.
 

Halbhh

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Without serious measures, this kind of progression:

"As of March 8, about 500 cases of Covid-19 had been diagnosed in the U.S. Given the substantial underdiagnosis at present due to limitations in testing for the coronavirus, let’s say there are 2,000 current cases, a conservative starting bet.

We can expect a doubling of cases every six days, according to several epidemiological studies. Confirmed cases may appear to rise faster (or slower) in the short term as diagnostic capabilities are ramped up (or not), but this is how fast we can expect actual new cases to rise in the absence of substantial mitigation measures.

That means we are looking at about 1 million U.S. cases by the end of April; 2 million by May 7; 4 million by May 13; and so on."
Simple math offers alarming answers about Covid-19, health care - STAT
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Coronavirus mortality rate 1 percent or less: US - France 24
"The best estimates now of the overall mortality rate for COVID-19 is somewhere between 0.1 percent and one percent," Admiral Brett Giroir, the assistant secretary of health said at a news briefing."

Vice President of the USA, put in charge of this in the usa, repeated this this morning on broadcast television.
 
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Desk trauma

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so basically they are hoping by taking such messures it will die more quickly as the spread will stop.
Slow, not stop. The main goal at this point is to slow how fast it spreads so cases needing major care can be cycled through without overwhelming the system.
 
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dogs4thewin

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Slow, not stop. The main goal at this point is to slow how fast it spreads so cases needing major care can be cycled through without overwhelming the system.
which will stop because if no one else contracts it cases will be closed. Either way it would likely end at some point because either they slow/stop the spread OR everyone gets and if someone lives they have immunity so they will not get this particular virus again, but of course many more people die that way.
 
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Halbhh

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so basically they are hoping by taking such messures it will die more quickly as the spread will stop.
Yes, because for example in China they are looking to get to little new transmission at all, and are progressing downwards in new cases. It's possible. But they took significant measures to accomplish that.
 
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sfs

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which will stop because if no one else contracts it cases will be closed. Either way it would likely end at some point because either they slow/stop the spread OR everyone gets and if someone lives they have immunity so they will not get this particular virus again, but of course many more people die that way.
Yes -- but that will take a long time. Or everyone gets it at once and the death rate goes up to 4%.
 
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Halbhh

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Coronavirus mortality rate 1 percent or less: US - France 24
"The best estimates now of the overall mortality rate for COVID-19 is somewhere between 0.1 percent and one percent," Admiral Brett Giroir, the assistant secretary of health said at a news briefing."

Vice President of the USA, put in charge of this in the usa, repeated this this morning on broadcast television.
The average age of the population is one powerful factor, as you can see in post #1 above, to help show where in that range you gave the likely number would be for the U.S. That's how I think 0.5% - 0.6% is a reasonable number (a number that only is possible when we are detecting most cases, including most mild cases that are barely noticed, so that the ratio is down to that level)
 
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dogs4thewin

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Yes, because for example in China they are looking to get to little new transmission at all, and are progressing downwards in new cases. It's possible. But they took significant measures to accomplish that.
because they really do not want to have to do it the other way where millions or billions get it and you either live or die, but either way will only get it ONE time.
 
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dogs4thewin

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Yes -- but that will take a long time. Or everyone gets it at once and the death rate goes up to 4%.
Wait that would be going down, as the site I am watching has a current death rate of 6%.
 
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Silmarien

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so basically they are hoping by taking such messures it will die more quickly as the spread will stop.

Other way around. When measures aren't taken or fail (as they did in northern Italy), it runs its course more quickly but overwhelms the healthcare system in the process. A containment strategy means that it'll be around longer, but the healthcare system won't come tumbling down.
 
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sfs

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But they took significant measures to accomplish that.
Bit of an understatement there. They took incredibly extensive measures, mobilizing their country in a way that the US cannot hope to do. A better example is S. Korea, which seems to be slowly bringing their outbreak under control with a somewhat less stringent approach. Still probably more than the US can manage. It would be nice if we had some effective national leadership during this crisis.
 
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dogs4thewin

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The average age of the population is one powerful factor, as you can see in post #1 above, to help show where in that range you gave the likely number would be for the U.S. That's how I think 0.5% - 0.6% is a reasonable number (a number that only is possible when we are detecting most cases, including most mild cases that are barely noticed, so that the ratio is down to that level)
Yeah it is like most things the younger and otherwise healthier you are the less likely you are to have a problem. It is like my sister said ( teaches at a school district that has not closed yet in GA. She said it would suck to get it and of course she does not want it, but at 23 and no underlying health concerns whatsoever even if she does get it odds are stay at home for a couple of weeks heal and move on. People like that are very unlikely to have problems.
 
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Halbhh

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@Silmarien pointed to a key thing there. To slow it was down and thus to avoid too-many-cases at once will help to have a lower death rate.

How? If hospitals become overflowing, more will try to ride it out on their own at home.

That points to another possible measure if needed: temporary field hospitals.
 
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dogs4thewin

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Other way around. When measures aren't taken or fail (as they did in northern Italy), it runs its course more quickly but overwhelms the healthcare system in the process. A containment strategy means that it'll be around longer, but the healthcare system won't come tumbling down.
but what I am saying is either way it will stop. Either because we slow the spread fewer people get it and more that do live or we just let it happen and live or die people will only get it one time.
 
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Halbhh

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Hopefully, the 6% is inflated because mild cases are not being detected. Hopefully.
Well, if there is a key factor not yet included in the OP there I want to learn about it. Lemme know if you have a link or something to look for on that.
 
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but what I am saying is either way it will stop. Either because we slow the spread fewer people get it and more that do live or we just let it happen and live or die people will only get it one time.

This virus might become endemic to the human population (like other coronaviruses and influenza). In which case it may not actually stop, it would just continue to recur like other viruses do.
 
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Halbhh

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but what I am saying is either way it will stop. Either because we slow the spread fewer people get it and more that do live or we just let it happen and live or die people will only get it one time.
Right. Or so we expect.

If you only want to know whether the U.S. will survive this pandemic, then the answer is yes. The open question is only what level of deaths we will see. It seems it could be possible to keep the deaths down, with strong measures -- instead of us all discussing later whether a million will die, we might be able to discuss a far lower number. ...maybe...
 
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