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Why Christians should reject Partial Preterism

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mkgal1

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According to Strong's - I don't see the use of #1085 in that passage, but 1074. This is the definition Strong's attributes to Matthew 24:34:

Strong's Greek: 1074. γενεά (genea) -- race, family, generation

the whole multitude of men living at the same time: Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30; Luke 1:48 (πᾶσαι αἱ γενεαί); ; Philippians 2:15; used especially of the Jewish race living at one and the same period: Matthew 11:16; Matthew 12:39, 41f, 45; Matthew 16:4; Matthew 23:36; Mark 8:12, 38; Luke 11:29f, 32, 50; Luke 17:25; Acts 13:36; Hebrews 3:10; ἄνθρωποι τῆς γενεάς ταύτης, Luke 7:31; ἄνδρες τῆς γενεάς ταύτης, Luke 11:31; τήν δέ γενεάν αὐτοῦ τίς διηγήσεται, who can describe the wickedness of the present generation, Acts 8:33 (from Isaiah 53:8 the Sept.) (but cf. Meyer, at the passage).
 
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DavidPT

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Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation(genea).

What about a passage like this then? How can you apply generation here like you are applying it in Matthew 24:34?

And here is another example. Same question I asked above applies here as well.

Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation(genea), among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

BTW, in light of a passage, such as Philippians 2:15, I can see Matthew 24:34 maybe meaning something like the following---Verily I say unto you, This crooked and perverse generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. IMO that seems to fit like a glove. IOW generation is meaning this present age. And it makes perfect sense, because the next age is going to be the new heavens and new earth age once this present age passes away.
 
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claninja

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If you are an Amil, you are a partial preterist. If you believe any part, but not necessarily all, of the olivet discourse was fulfilled in the 1st century, you are a partial preterist.
 
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mkgal1

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What the New Testament believers were anticipating was the fulfillment of the prophecies foretold in the Old Testament. "The Coming of the Son of Man" was a part of that......the vindication of His servants.....the end of an age....the days of vengeance.....it all goes together. Ephesians (along with the rest of the NT) relates to the in-between time.....where Christ Jesus had died....resurrected...and ascended to heaven.....but now what? They were promised He would "bring His kingdom" but it wasn't looking too much like He had (and some today STILL don't believe He's accomplished that and judge that based on how things "look")....they were promised He would "vindicate His servants".....and they were waiting for that to happen, because it ALL had to happen in order for Jesus to be THE promised Messiah.

Luke 21:19-22 ~ By your patient endurance, you will gain your souls.
But
when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near.Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country stay out of the city. For these are the days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near.Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country stay out of the city. For these are the days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.

Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.
 
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sovereigngrace

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The binding relates to the deceiving of the Gentile nations or ethnos. Before the Cross they were deceived, since the Cross the nations have received the Gospel. No nation before the Cross enjoyed the free spread of the Gospel. This could only happen after the Cross. Prior to Calvary, the Gospel was exclusively restricted to the small physical nation of Israel with the occasional conversion of a Gentile like Ruth or Rahab within the boundaries of Israel. Outside the boundaries of Israel, there is the one isolated exception of the city of Ninevah. Before the Cross, the Gentiles as a whole were deceived, apart from the occasional rare conversion; after the cross, whilst Satan continues to deceive the wicked on an individual basis, he can't deceive or blindfold the Gentiles as a whole, like before Calvary.


When was Satan cast out?

The answer is in the text. It is very simple and unambiguous: when He ascended up to heaven! When the “man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron … was caught up unto God, and to his throne."

A careful comparison of both passages confirms that they closely parallel and perfectly correlate with each other. Revelation 12:9-13 says, speaking of the tremendous ramifications that Calvary had upon Satan. It also demonstrates the heavenly impact that Christ’s glorious victory over Satan secured. Both Revelation 20 and Revelation 12 chart the casting down of Satan from heaven in order to facilitate the global spread of the Gospel to the previously blinded nations.

The term “cast out” is taken from the Greek word ballo meaning to eject, drive out or send away. This word gives us some idea of the deep lasting work that was wrought upon Satan as a result of the cross. This reading seems to strongly support the idea that the accusing place that Satan once held in heaven before Calvary has now been totally destroyed and his area of influence on earth significantly limited.

Being banished from heaven he now operates on earth in a restricted manner with a lot less influence than he previously had. Satan was effectively unseated from his former global deception over the Gentiles, allowing the Gospel to spread forth.
 
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Messenger 3k

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By now, your problem is evident.

You've taken a scripture that says, Christ has all authority to mean Christ is wielding the authority.

There are other authorities existing on earth especially magnifying themselves above His authority.

This is why He then wields His authority and subjects every other authority to its place.



I'll assume you aren't deliberately getting scriptures misconstrued.

Paul wrote those passages after the resurrection, within which you claim Jesus was already reigning. Yet you fail to see the future tenses.

Here's one:

Revelation 20:6,
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign (not already reigning) with him for a thousand years. (NIV)

Lets be a bit analytical shall we?

You say there's no millenial reign. So Christ's reign technically ends at His second coming, right?

Scripture says in 1 Corinthians 15:25-26,

For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. (NIV)

Now where in scripture was death destroyed?

In Revelation 20:13-14,

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire...(KJV)

So death is destroyed at the time the dead are jugded.

Which dead are these? The same ones who come to life a thousand years later.

Revelation 20:4 & 5

I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)...(NIV)

For your sake, lets assume the resurrection in the scripture above was Christ's resurrection.

According to you, Death is destroyed almost two thousand years after the resurrection.

But according to that scripture, Death is destroyed a thousand years after the resurrection.

Please reconcile that.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Even though you are fixated with the coming of Titus and the arrival of AD70, the redeemed in both the OT and NT were captivated with Christ. Before the cross, Israel yearned for their coming Messiah. He was the centerpoint of their lives. The New Testament saints were captivated by Christ's earthly ministry and also His final future climatic coming, when He would eliminate sin, sinners, death, corruption, war and Satan forever.

Unlike you, the church at Ephesus was focused on the Lord Jesus Christ - their Redeemer. Titus didn't redeem anyone! He was a tool in God's hand to bring judgment to the Jewish state, the temple and the city of Jerusalem. All Titus brought was destruction.

What you are arguing undermines the cross-work. It negates redemption. It denies the redemption of our bodies when Jesus returns - the last aspect of redemption.

1 Corinthians 1:30 tells us: "Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption."

He redeemed us through the cross-work; He will redeem our bodies when He comes at the end of the age at His glorious climactic coming.

Ephesians 1:13-14 assures us that “ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.”

Ephesians 4:30 similarly states, “ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”

This teaching has absolutely nothing to do with AD70, the coming of Titus, the old covenant, the destruction of Jerusalem and the ancient Jews. The teaching is spiritual instruction that is directed towards the largely Gentile church at Ephesus who were living under the new covenant. It also relates to us today also.

Are you saying that the sealing of God's elect only lasted as long as AD70? The reality is, they are “sealed with that holy Spirit of promise” (Ephesians 1:13) “unto the day of redemption” (Ephesians 4:30) - Christ's return. This is God’s eternal stamp of ownership. It is “only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads” that escape torment.
 
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sovereigngrace

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If you are an Amil, you are a partial preterist. If you believe any part, but not necessarily all, of the olivet discourse was fulfilled in the 1st century, you are a partial preterist.

I don't own that name (or will) because of the confusion and error that comes with Preterism and also the heresy attached to many Preterist beliefs.
 
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mkgal1

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Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation(genea).

What about a passage like this then? How can you apply generation here like you are applying it in Matthew 24:34?
It was that specific generation (group of people living at that time of Jesus) that God's wrath/salvation was going to fall on - just as the Old Testament prophets had foretold (and Jesus had pronounced).

Deuteronomy 32:5, 35-36 ~ "They have acted corruptly toward Him, They are not His children, because of their defect; But are a perverse and crooked generation.
Vengeance is Mine; I will repay. In due time their foot will slip; for their day of disaster is near, and their doom is coming quickly.” For the LORD will vindicate His people and will have compassion on His servants when He sees that their strength is gone and no one remains, slave or free.

Isaiah 35:4 ~ Say to those with anxious hearts: “Be strong, do not fear! Behold, your God will come with vengeance. With divine retribution He will come to save you.”

Malachi 3:1 ~ “Behold, I will send My messenger, who will prepare the way before Me. Then the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to His temple—the Messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight—see, He is coming,” says the LORD of Hosts.

Matthew 23:31-36 ~
“So you testify against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. “Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers. “You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

“Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

1 Thessalonians 2:14-16 ~ For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea, for you also endured the same sufferings at the hands of your own countrymen, even as they did from the Jews who having killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and having driven us out, and not pleasing God, are also set against all men, forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, so as always to fill up their sins. Now the wrath has come upon them to the utmost.
 
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sovereigngrace

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This is playing with words! He has all authority and is currently reigning now on majesty on high over all His enemies. So He is wielding authority also!

Christ is reigning over His enemies as Christ (Messiah) and Lord (God) since the resurrection. He has soundly defeated every enemy of righteousness and truth. He is no enforcing that victory through His rule over all creation in general and His new creation in particular. We see this in (Matthew 22:42-46, 1 Corinthians 15:20-26, Ephesians 1:19-22, 1 Peter 3:22, Hebrews 1:1-3, 12:2, Revelation 3:21).

Christ already came. He now exercises all power and authority today over His people – true Israel – in the earth. He reigns victoriously upon David's throne from true Jerusalem above, not Christ-rejecting Jerusalem below. He is reigning now in Sion – true Sion.


John is describing a current reality in Revelation 20:6. It says, Blessed and holy is he ‘that hath part’ (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

The first resurrection is Christ's resurrection that we partake in when we are born again. Because we partake in Christ's resurrection (the first), we are spared the second death that comes with the bodily resurrection at the Second Coming. Contrary to what Premils argue, this is absolute unequivocal corroborative proof that Christ is indeed "the first resurrection" in time and in importance.

The Greek for “that hath part” is echo méros. The Greek verb echo correctly interpreted “that hath” in the King James Version is written in the present tense and in the active voice. Therefore, we can view the relevance and vitality of “the first resurrection” as being both current and ongoing. Christ’s victory over death is not simply a past event that has no active bearing upon what we are today; it is ongoing reality in the lives of God’s people. The Greek word translated “part” in the text is the word meros meaning share, allotment or portion. This reading tells us that all those that have come to the joy of saving faith in Christ have become partakers in the resurrection life, and through this will escape the horrors of the second death – eternal wrath.

This is supported by Revelation 2:11, which similarly says: “He that overcometh (present active particle) shall not be hurt of the second death.”

Revelation 2:11 and Revelation 20:6 mirror each other. The reason being they are speaking about the same reality in the same age – spiritual victory in this current age. Like Revelation 20:6, this is speaking about a current spiritual state (salvation) that allows the Christian to escape eternal punishment. It is the same message in each passage because we are looking at the same author.
The word "overcometh" here is actually written in the present active particle meaning it relates to the here-and-now. It is an experience that is realized in life. When you have "eth" in the KJV it means it is a present reality.

John was caught up to heaven to see what was happening in the here-and-now. He also saw past and future events. Future things were given in a future tense; past things in the past tense and current things were given in the present tense. What is more, please see John's MO at presenting salvation alone as man's only means of victory over eternal punishment. Nowhere does he present the physical resurrection of the just as that event. The reason is that (1) it doesn't make sense and (2) it wouldn't include all the elect.

There is no contradiction in the tenses. Revelation 20:6 shows (what we all know) that salvation must come first before we receive power, authority and reign. That is why "hath part" is in the present tense, and "they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years” is future. It is demonstrating sequence. After salvation comes heavenly power and victory over everlasting punishment.


No, this actually proves Amil. Rev 20 is happening now. These 2 chapters correlate.
 
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sovereigngrace

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You impose your constant focus on the coming of Titus and AD70 the scared pages, but the early Church were focused on Christ - their Redeemer! Christ had already secured their redemption at Calvary. Their sin had been eternally defeated. They had been supernatural sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Your position doesn't add up on so many fronts. What is more, you don't address any of the many contradictions in your position. You just keep avoiding the rebuttals and keep quoting the party line. This does nothing to advance Preterism. Actually, it testifies to its unscriptural nature. I refer you back to my last avoided post.
 
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Christian Gedge

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If you are an Amil, you are a partial preterist. If you believe any part, but not necessarily all, of the olivet discourse was fulfilled in the 1st century, you are a partial preterist.

Im trying to be an Im-partial
 
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David Kent

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How can the souls of them that were beheaded for Christ be on earth?
 
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David Kent

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If you are an Amil, you are a partial preterist. If you believe any part, but not necessarily all, of the olivet discourse was fulfilled in the 1st century, you are a partial preterist.

You can believe all that and if you believe antichrist is future, then you are a partial futurist.
 
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mkgal1

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heresy attached to many Preterist beliefs
If you're bringing up Paul's rebuke of Hymenaeus and Philetus (AGAIN) - that's a straw man argument to begin with. Paul never corrected them on the nature of the resurrection they were referring to - just the timing (they had to have been a teaching of a spiritual resurrection in order for believers to be writing to Paul to address their confusion). Do you know what I mean? If Paul's teaching was limited to the final physical resurrection.....of living and dead - then how could His followers be confused that they may have missed it......and why would they write to Paul? Shouldn't Paul have been resurrected, if this was all in reference to a physical transformation and "carrying away"? Wouldn't they have KNOWN whether or not living people were being physically caught away? Wouldn't they, themselves, have experienced *something* (I can't think of anyone being excluded from the categories living and dead) had this event have occurred in that physical nature?
 
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Christian Gedge

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I don't own that name (or will) because of the confusion and error that comes with Preterism and also the heresy attached to many Preterist beliefs.

Whether we like it or not, we are all partial Preterists and partial Futurists as well! The heresy lies in the extremes of these 2 positions. That is why I prefer to call myself a 'Historicist' but I have to admit Historicism has had its share of heretics.
So, now I call myself a 'new-style Historicist.' Very rare.
 
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Messenger 3k

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This is playing with words!

No Kimosabe, it's aligning scriptures with scriptures.

You're are merely throwing irrelevant scriptures around like a dice and hoping they land on something favorable.

John is describing a current reality in Revelation 20:6.

Don't be funny. How could John have being describing a current reality (in his time) with future tenses?

Revelation 20:6,

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be (not they are) priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign (not are reigning) with him a thousand years. (KJV)

The Greek for “that hath part” is...

Don't give me Greek renderings or weak's concordance. Align scriptures with scriptures for me.

The word "overcometh" here is actually written in the present active particle meaning it relates to the here-and-now.

Now this is trying too hard. I'm just dumbfounded.

No, this actually proves Amil. Rev 20 is happening now. These 2 chapters correlate.

This ought to be interesting...

How is Revelation 20 happening now?
 
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mkgal1

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I don't know how this can be ignored. The point is that Jesus is God - He proved it. He fulfilled the Messianic prophecies. I'm not putting the emphasis on Titus (or anyone else but Jesus). Humans were God's instruments of His wrath and righteousness (as it's been through history and will continue) This is Jesus Himself speaking - recorded in Matthew 23:

v. 29-36 ~
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, and say, ‘If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ “So you testify against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. “Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers. “You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

“Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, so that
upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. “Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.



Luke 21:20 ~ But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near.




Deuteronomy 32: 35-42 ~
Vengeance is Mine; I will repay.i

In due time their foot will slip;

for their day of disaster is near,

and their doom is coming quickly.”For the LORD will vindicate His peoplej

and will have compassion on His servants

when He sees that their strength is gone

and no one remains, slave or free.37He will say: “Where are their gods,

the rock in which they took refuge,38which ate the fat of their sacrifices

and drank the wine of their drink offerings?

Let them rise up and help you;

let them give you shelter!
See now that I am He;

there is no God besides Me.


I bring death and I give life;

I wound and I heal,

and there is no one

who can deliver from My hand.For I lift up My hand to heaven and declare:

As surely as I live forever,when I sharpen My flashing sword,

and My hand grasps it in judgment,

I will take vengeance on My adversaries

and repay those who hate
Me.I will make My arrows drunk with blood,

while My sword devours flesh—

the blood of the slain and captives,

the heads of the enemy leaders.”
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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There is no way that is all happening in one day.
lets look at it chronologically. The day described is a day when Jerusalem is being overrun and half of the city is taken captive; now this invasion will certainly encompass more than a day but on a day when it is dark in the morning and light at night the LORD comes with His saints. Now this is certainly a single day. On that day the Mt of Olives splits in two and a river forms. That is one day. The enemies of the LORD are melted. One day as described many places. The LORD is now king over the earth; the transfer of power is when the LORD comes. Satan is bound and AC and False prophet are thrown into the fire. All the same day. In that day they will say the LORD is one. Now this is clearly Jesus and who is saying this? Israel says the LORD is one and now Jesus is clearly revealed as Joseph was to His brothers. They are confessing Jesus is LORD. The nations which are left from that time onward will need to keep the feast of Tabernacles or get no rain. This shows life continuing on earth after this great day of transition.
 
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DavidPT

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How can the souls of them that were beheaded for Christ be on earth?

When a person initially dies, there is no such thing as their soul has died then. Only their body has died. The text in Revelation 20:4 indicates the following----and I saw the souls of them--- and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Obviously what is meant, since these in verse 4 had literally physically died at some point,
when the text says---and they lived---it is meaning as in again. That only makes sense if this is meaning a resurrection unto bodily immortality. And if it's meaning a resuurection unto bodily immortality, then that only makes sense if there is the 2nd coming of Christ first. What doesn't make sense is reigning as disembodied souls with Christ a thousand years in heaven. Heaven doesn't go by earthly time. A thousand years are only relevant to something earthly. What is going on here then, Christ and His bodily resurrected saints are governing those unsaved of the nations spared at His 2nd coming, with a rod of iron, thus making the scene the earth.

And besides, the following also proves it.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

No one is being surrounded in heaven, they are being surrounded on the earth. There is zero connection with verse 4 with that of verses 7-8, if verse 4 the scene is heaven, but in verses 7-8 the scene is the earth. Why would there be a total disconnect like that?
 
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