Why Catholics become Protestants

[christseeker45]

what? Its not worth going for a homily? I agree. Its not. and its why Protestant services are not worth going... Its not worth going to fellowship, or be "fed" with the word preached in a way that moves... none of that to me is worth going but I do recognize that its nice, but it only fills the human need in us because we are trying to fill the God void that is in us. We can not fill it with those things. What we are looking for is a true unity with God and we get it through the Eucharistic. Its where we can be one with God.

But we are all social beings by nature. We do need to socialize with each other but none of this is Theosis. I don't understand why Catholics don't have more events where they can get this from each other. I don't get why its either/or.

No, it's not worth going to Mass for the reason you cited. I don't go to Mass because of those reason and if those are the only reason to go to Mass than I'll turn my Catholic card in now. I go to Mass and any Church service because I need it. I need the preaching (homily) not just the bells and smells. I do not go to Mass because God needs it.

 

[christseeker45]

Why are we Christian? Why did God create us? Why did God permit Adam to fall from grace? Why did Christ become a man? Why did He die for us and rise to new life?

That's easy. For His Glory

 

[steve_bakr]

They are not strictly needed to offer Mass. They are needed in your opinion. We go to offer the Mass, not to hear a homily. and we are supposed to educate our own children.. Mass is not CCD classes, its not RCIA either. Pio never gave a homily. How many conversions did his Masses bring about? many. we do not need them. Usually early AM Masses don't have them. I mean, they're okay... I do not mind them but if I ever get to where I need to have one or I don't "feel it" if I don't get one, then I got the problem, not the Catholic Church. and if we need a homily to teach Catholic adults, then we as a Church have a problem because we have lost our way then.

I'm not there (we're) not there to get a education, a lecture, fellowship.. none of that. and worshiping is not song nor dance. We are there to assist in offering the Mass and worship Christ on the alter. Everything else happens outside of that. Nobody stopping anyone from fellowshipping with one another, or educating themselves, its just Mass is not the time nor place to do any of that.

I mean, isn't this what is the gripe with Vll? Protestizing the Mass? isn't that why we want the Traditional Mass back? From the Protestant written Hymns sung to the guitars played on the alter... not what we're there for but its the New Order, Novus Ordo.

Preaching is part of the ministry of the Church, so homilies do matter. The Church is called not only to offer Mass, but to preach the Gospel.

 

[steve_bakr]

No, it's not worth going to Mass for the reason you cited. I don't go to Mass because of those reason and if those are the only reason to go to Mass than I'll turn my Catholic card in now. I go to Mass and any Church service because I need it. I need the preaching (homily) not just the bells and smells. I do not go to Mass because God needs it.

I agree that we need homilies but don't dismiss what we receive in the Eucharist.

 

[WarriorAngel]

They are not strictly needed to offer Mass. They are needed in your opinion. We go to offer the Mass, not to hear a homily. and we are supposed to educate our own children.. Mass is not CCD classes, its not RCIA either. Pio never gave a homily. How many conversions did his Masses bring about? many. we do not need them. Usually early AM Masses don't have them. I mean, they're okay... I do not mind them but if I ever get to where I need to have one or I don't "feel it" if I don't get one, then I got the problem, not the Catholic Church. and if we need a homily to teach Catholic adults, then we as a Church have a problem because we have lost our way then.

I'm not there (we're) not there to get a education, a lecture, fellowship.. none of that. and worshiping is not song nor dance. We are there to assist in offering the Mass and worship Christ on the alter. Everything else happens outside of that. Nobody stopping anyone from fellowshipping with one another, or educating themselves, its just Mass is not the time nor place to do any of that.

I mean, isn't this what is the gripe with Vll? Protestizing the Mass? isn't that why we want the Traditional Mass back? From the Protestant written Hymns sung to the guitars played on the alter... not what we're there for but its the New Order, Novus Ordo.

St Pio was one priest - and it was probably because his Masses lasted 2 hours without a Homily that he with held from doing it - due to his contemplation and pain during the sacrifice of the Mass - the consecration.

His words:
"God knows that I want to say Mass just like any other priest, but I cannot do it.
"
Saint Pio

However; most priests, Bishops and Popes who celebrate Mass have always spoke and taught at Mass - and they did not have the stigmata that would convert thousands.

AND MANY people do not know it all - so we enjoy [yes i do] a great homily especially from someone who knows deeply what scriptures mean.
The best Homilies are the ones who know the culture of the time of Christ - who can explain why He said as He said...which thankfully our priest and deacon both teach these interesting and small facts that i absorb like a sponge.

Our faith is fortified if we know what it means and how Christ lived and what He really meant by His actions and words.

a church can't pull anyone away who doesn't want to be pulled away.

AND according to what the church taught to pull them away - is the answer as to what pulled them away.

There is no easy answer - one size fits all as to why someone was pulled away - but other churches who need membership - it talks the salesman in their ministries to pull ppl away...willingly - because some are seeking - or just by a really great pitch as to why the CC is wrong - so they [who dont receive good HOMILIES] have ITCHY EARS and wander away.

IF the Church doesnt teach the ppl in the pews - there is absolutely no freaking way they are going to learn what she teaches on their own... or even be able to discern scriptures.

Priests are teachers - and not only in RCIA or Catechism - but each week and each day - or they drop the ball and wolves take away the eager to learn by feeding them errors in which they know no better.

 

[benedictaoo]

We can have hidden hatred that we don't even realize, they are more resentments and that is how you sound like you resent other Christians.

Welp, glad you know me better then I know myself. I do not hate (in general) Protestants and I have been sticking up for them as of late in case you haven't noticed. I'm trying not to hate anyone based on the fact that they are different. I do not want to hate Muslims, Jews, blacks Hispaniolas... you get the point, right? If I did harbor hate for anyone not like myself, then I can't really say I am a Christian person? Can I?

Look, I'm a hard nut to crack and you should not misconstrue a tough talking, straight forward person who is just been on here for far too long, who is just not taking anybody's you know what anymore on this forum. I resent the way I have been treated, all the labels and now people are acting like I don't know what I'm talking about, ah, yeah I do, they are who should be ashamed of themselves, not me, I'm honest. Blunt but honest. and the names I have been called, oh and the passive aggressiveness. That bugs me the most. Just man up and come out with what you want to say, don't be such a oscar myer and be passive aggressive. say what you really mean. So absolutely I am resentful but not at random people or other Christians, only the ones who have P me off.

and I swear this is true. Just today, me, the kids, the husband... were driving through Gentility (a part of new Orleans) and its where my dad met my step mom when I was 12, and it was at this Assemblies of God church on Elysian Fields Ave. We were passing by there and I was trying to find the church, I think its some other church now... I think it was closed due to Hurricane Katrina. Anyways, I said to my husband, I can not think of one bad memory. That church, those times were very instrumental to my life. It was a happy time for me as a kid and the people affiliated with the church I can't recall anything bad about any of them, and they never bashed any other church and they were all wonderful people that I can remember.

So there. I don't hate Protestants. I just don't like people wo P me off.

That may be your thinking but not always the truth. In all my time in Catholicism I have not seem any support for people, no ministries of help. The person I know was a pretty bad guy but he had the Eucharist and confession, I remember him telling me that all the time. When he gave his life and heart to Christ there was such a change in him that if you knew him you would say he was an entirely different person. He personified this verse:


Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
2 Cor 5:17

I explained that verse in another post. okay, well that one experience should not make up your whole impression. I know a Catholic man that would have you go sheaving your head, joining a cult he's such a hypocrite and a bad person. and he postures himself as if he is the best Catholic around. My MIL (God rest her) use to tell him, one day God's gonna kick his butt all the way down the church isle.

We can not base everything on what other people do and how they are. Its based on what we know. yes its hard when we met a jerk and easy when we meet a sweet nice person. I'll be darned if my faith is going to be contingent on how other people are, for the good or bad.

and it was not fake like your always typing. It was genuine and when I saw him a few years later he was just as on fire for Christ as he was when he first gave his heart to Christ. There may be Catholics like that but I have not meant them and sadly I am not any better.

fake? Do I even know you? How dare you call me fake. Look, if all it takes for you is a "on fire" dude then it don't take much for you, does it?

You telling me about some "on fire" dude does not persuade me one way or the other. So what? He sucked at being Catholic, went to a Protestant church and is now "on fire" ... and? So?

I can not believe you think that proves anything. We have got to be more mature then that.

I know, I just don't understand why you are always harping on emotions. I have told you time and again that I am not talking about emotions at all.

But you are... you do not know that you are but you indeed are. You are not describing theosis, divinization but emotions, and charismatic styled ones at that.

A person is not converted and that's it. We are a ongoing work in progress. I do not question people's sincerity when they have that initial on fireness. I had it to, we all do, but does the feeling remain after the glitter fades? That's the question? The honeymoon does end and its then you know what you're really made of. Its no differences then a marriage. That might be why marriage is compared to church. Might be why she is called a bride.

 

[benedictaoo]

St Pio was one priest - and it was probably because his Masses lasted 2 hours without a Homily that he with held from doing it - due to his contemplation and pain during the sacrifice of the Mass - the consecration.

His words:
"God knows that I want to say Mass just like any other priest, but I cannot do it.
"
Saint Pio

However; most priests, Bishops and Popes who celebrate Mass have always spoke and taught at Mass - and they did not have the stigmata that would convert thousands.

AND MANY people do not know it all - so we enjoy [yes i do] a great homily especially from someone who knows deeply what scriptures mean.
The best Homilies are the ones who know the culture of the time of Christ - who can explain why He said as He said...which thankfully our priest and deacon both teach these interesting and small facts that i absorb like a sponge.

Our faith is fortified if we know what it means and how Christ lived and what He really meant by His actions and words.



AND according to what the church taught to pull them away - is the answer as to what pulled them away.

There is no easy answer - one size fits all as to why someone was pulled away - but other churches who need membership - it talks the salesman in their ministries to pull ppl away...willingly - because some are seeking - or just by a really great pitch as to why the CC is wrong - so they [who dont receive good HOMILIES] have ITCHY EARS and wander away.

IF the Church doesnt teach the ppl in the pews - there is absolutely no freaking way they are going to learn what she teaches on their own... or even be able to discern scriptures.

Priests are teachers - and not only in RCIA or Catechism - but each week and each day - or they drop the ball and wolves take away the eager to learn by feeding them errors in which they know no better.

You just disgreeing just to do it. (see what I have to put up with around here?)

Uh huh, I know all that. A homily is okay. Never said it wasn't but it is not stickily needed. Do you pay attention to the very particular words I use? Its not strictly needed. Mary being born sinless was not strictly needed either. ax somebody if you think I'm wrong. Its not strictly needed. and I said that to make a point that because of everyone's hostility, missed it. I did not say it because I have a issue with it. I don't. I said it to emphasis a point.

You will not find a thing wrong with anything I say... but go ahead and look so it can confirm what for you? that I'm what?

I don't care if i get a homily or not... and its a sad thing that this is where people young and old get educated. Our CCD education system is in bad shape these days. A priest should not be having to teach from the alter but he does. I get it.

 

[benedictaoo]

No, it's not worth going to Mass for the reason you cited. I don't go to Mass because of those reason and if those are the only reason to go to Mass than I'll turn my Catholic card in now. I go to Mass and any Church service because I need it. I need the preaching (homily) not just the bells and smells. I do not go to Mass because God needs it.

You don't go for the Eucharist and because you need grace? Okay. You go for the preaching.. but a priest does not preach. The last thing a priest is ,is a preacher man.

wow, alright. Look, you're kinda freaking me out now. I don't know how old you are but its obvious you can not handle anything that challenges you. Don't hate the Catholic Church because you don't like me... that would be really silly, wouldn't it?

 

[benedictaoo]

I agree that we need homilies but don't dismiss what we receive in the Eucharist.

Just to explore this a bit more... cuz i find it intriguing, why do we need them?

 

[benedictaoo]

That's easy. For His Glory

seriously?

its more deeper then that. far more. Do you know what theosis or divinization is?

Theosis - Catholic Answers Forums

 

[christseeker45]

Welp, glad you know me better then I know myself. I do not hate (in general) Protestants and I have been sticking up for them as of late in case you haven't noticed. I'm trying not to hate anyone based on the fact that they are different. I do not want to hate Muslims, Jews, blacks Hispaniolas... you get the point, right? If I did harbor hate for anyone not like myself, then I can't really say I am a Christian person? Can I?

Look, I'm a hard nut to crack and you should not misconstrue a tough talking, straight forward person who is just been on here for far too long, who is just not taking anybody's you know what anymore on this forum. I resent the way I have been treated, all the labels and now people are acting like I don't know what I'm talking about, ah, yeah I do, they are who should be ashamed of themselves, not me, I'm honest. Blunt but honest. and the names I have been called, oh and the passive aggressiveness. That bugs me the most. Just man up and come out with what you want to say, don't be such a oscar myer and be passive aggressive. say what you really mean. So absolutely I am resentful but not at random people or other Christians, only the ones who have P me off.

and I swear this is true. Just today, me, the kids, the husband... were driving through Gentility (a part of new Orleans) and its where my dad met my step mom when I was 12, and it was at this Assemblies of God church on Elysian Fields Ave. We were passing by there and I was trying to find the church, I think its some other church now... I think it was closed due to Hurricane Katrina. Anyways, I said to my husband, I can not think of one bad memory. That church, those times were very instrumental to my life. It was a happy time for me as a kid and the people affiliated with the church I can't recall anything bad about any of them, and they never bashed any other church and they were all wonderful people that I can remember.

So there. I don't hate Protestants. I just don't like people wo P me off.

You come off with quite bit of resentment. Maybe hate was a strong word but there is something there.

I explained that verse in another post. okay, well that one experience should not make up your whole impression. I know a Catholic man that would have you go sheaving your head, joining a cult he's such a hypocrite and a bad person. and he postures himself as if he is the best Catholic around. My MIL (God rest her) use to tell him, one day God's gonna kick his butt all the way down the church isle.

We can not base everything on what other people do and how they are. Its based on what we know. yes its hard when we met a jerk and easy when we meet a sweet nice person. I'll be darned if my faith is going to be contingent on how other people are, for the good or bad.

Actually we base everything on actions of others. That's why the saying is "Actions speak louder than words" sometimes that all people have to base their opinion on.

fake? Do I even know you? How dare you call me fake. Look, if all it takes for you is a "on fire" dude then it don't take much for you, does it?

I never said you were fake, you though said Protestants were and I told you not everything is fake because you think it is.

You telling me about some "on fire" dude does not persuade me one way or the other. So what? He sucked at being Catholic, went to a Protestant church and is now "on fire" ... and? So?

I can not believe you think that proves anything. We have got to be more mature then that.

No, the Catholic Church let him down. The problem is people who think that because someone doesn't do A, B, or C they are a bad Catholic. He never went to Church to receive Christ, he was witnessed to and truly became a Christian in his living room and him being on fire has nothing to do with Church but with Christ

But you are... you do not know that you are but you indeed are. You are not describing theosis, divinization but emotions, and charismatic styled ones at that.

A person is not converted and that's it. We are a ongoing work in progress. I do not question people's sincerity when they have that initial on fireness. I had it to, we all do, but does the feeling remain after the glitter fades? That's the question? The honeymoon does end and its then you know what you're really made of. Its no differences then a marriage. That might be why marriage is compared to church. Might be why she is called a bride.

No I am not describing emotions. How many ways and times do I have to repeat that. Stop acting like I am, please! I am talking about something that goes way beyond emotion.

 

[christseeker45]

You don't go for the Eucharist and because you need grace? Okay. You go for the preaching.. but a priest does not preach. The last thing a priest is ,is a preacher man.

wow, alright. Look, you're kinda freaking me out now. I don't know how old you are but its obvious you can not handle anything that challenges you. Don't hate the Catholic Church because you don't like me... that would be really silly, wouldn't it?

I am quite old. What I can't take is the ridiculousness that's going on and I do not hate the Catholic Church but I do see the holes in it. The thing is just going to Mass to participant is something I can do anywhere. I can go to a baseball game to participate, a birthday party to participate. I go to Church to get feed because I need it after the week, I need a place I can rest in Christ and learn more about his plans. That is why I go to Church

 

[christseeker45]

seriously?

its more deeper then that. far more. Do you know what theosis or divinization is?

Theosis - Catholic Answers Forums

No I don't

 

[benedictaoo]

Preaching is part of the ministry of the Church, so homilies do matter. The Church is called not only to offer Mass, but to preach the Gospel.

okay. I know... but we do not need them on weekdays. Only on Sunday and Holy days.

POINT is, the homily is okay, but it shouldn't be the entire focus. that way my point. that was it, that was all.

*Note to self, don't ever assume people know what you're talking about and are not going to read all kinds of other stuff into what you post*

 

[benedictaoo]

No I don't

well read up on it because it is the crux of it all, heart and soul of Catholic and Orthodox teaching, the name of the game, why we are all here and its deep. deep, deep stuff.

 

[benedictaoo]

I am quite old. What I can't take is the ridiculousness that's going on and I do not hate the Catholic Church but I do see the holes in it. The thing is just going to Mass to participant is something I can do anywhere. I can go to a baseball game to participate, a birthday party to participate. I go to Church to get feed because I need it after the week, I need a place I can rest in Christ and learn more about his plans. That is why I go to Church

You are actively participating in offering Christ's sacrifice up to God for the entire universe and for the dead, souls in purg... you can not get that anywhere else. NO WHERE ELSE can you get that... ?? We are outside time and space and the veil between heaven and earth lifts and we are offering it with the Saints. You can't get that no where else.

and see? point proven. Catholics leave because they just do not know their faith.

There are no holes, you do not know your faith. It is what it is.

Learn what he sacrifice of the Mass is, why we were even created by God and everything else.

as far as instruction, inspiration, getting fed... we have all that but its not at Mass, well sorta. You can go sit in a chapel and make a holy hour, you can read a book, listen to a speaker speak. we have all that, we have bible studies, prayer groups where you do fellowship but Mass is Mass.

 

[benedictaoo]

You come off with quite bit of resentment. Maybe hate was a strong word but there is something there.

Duh... I told you what is there... were you not "reading"?

Actually we base everything on actions of others. That's why the saying is "Actions speak louder than words" sometimes that all people have to base their opinion on.

well that's just stupid. I'm not going to believe in God and His Church because of what others do. if that is the case, I would have ditched this Church long ago because of the sexual abuse of kids and the cover ups. I'm mad as heck at the men running the Church right now but I'm not leaving it.. where am I gonna go? You (the Church) have the words of eternal life, the sacraments.

I never said you were fake, you though said Protestants were and I told you not everything is fake because you think it is.

I pretty sure it read, "not fake like you".

No, the Catholic Church let him down. The problem is people who think that because someone doesn't do A, B, or C they are a bad Catholic. He never went to Church to receive Christ, he was witnessed to and truly became a Christian in his living room and him being on fire has nothing to do with Church but with Christ

Agreed. It (men) let him down. The diocese here really let me down once. I was really PO, but so what? Its the men, not the truth, the teachings. Its that they do not practice what they preach, not that what is preached is wrong. Its not. so I suffer with Christ and He's mad to when His men screw up.

You pick yourelf up, brush off and understand they are jerks not following but you still will and that's when you know, this is not a cake walk and you can not be in it for nothing other then becuase you love God. Not for blessings or feelings or even answered prayers but for God and God alone. You get nothing out of it sometimes and sometimes you get hurt. You have to remain faithful even in the face and bad peple being bad.

You know how mnay saints went through creepy bishops and creepy preist harrassing them? It happens and its a test when it does.

No I am not describing emotions. How many ways and times do I have to repeat that. Stop acting like I am, please! I am talking about something that goes way beyond emotion.

what goes beyond emotion is purification, illumination and unification. Its a journey a process and we takes steps forward and back again.

what you describe is pure emotion by someone who changed his ways. he had a change, a conversion but that conversion is on going and if someone is mean to him again? what then?

Its not a testament to the teachings are false. its a testament to how human nature is. how people allow other people to dictate to them how the feel.

he can take that on fireness and be Catholic. It sad he needed to go else where to get it but it literally has nothing to do with Catholicism or Protestantism. You can not actually think on fireness is only fund in a non catholic congregation... that is utter ridiculousness if you think that. You are discounting everybody else who found it while being catholic and I do not say in the catholic Church because its not found IN a place or a religion. it comes from with in. Do you understand this?

 

[christseeker45]

You are actively participating in offering Christ's sacrifice up to God for the entire universe and for the dead, souls in purg... you can not get that anywhere else. NO WHERE ELSE can you get that... ?? We are outside time and space and the veil between heaven and earth lifts and we are offering it with the Saints. You can't get that no where else.

and see? point proven. Catholics leave because they just do not know their faith.

There are no holes, you do not know your faith. It is what it is.

Learn what he sacrifice of the Mass is, why we were even created by God and everything else.

as far as instruction, inspiration, getting fed... we have all that but its not at Mass, well sorta. You can go sit in a chapel and make a holy hour, you can read a book, listen to a speaker speak. we have all that, we have bible studies, prayer groups where you do fellowship but Mass is Mass.

Ah so we should get nothing out of going to Mass, after all it's no different than anything else if all I have to do is participate. Who cares about being feed spiritually at Church, do it yourself. No wonder Catholics are looked at as working to save ourselves

 

[steve_bakr]

Just to explore this a bit more... cuz i find it intriguing, why do we need them?

I think that homilies are needed because part of the Church's ministry is to preach the Gospel and to teach. Many Catholics are not properly catechized and need more teaching. Visitors need preaching so that they may be drawn into the Church. Adult Catholics need teaching because they need to understand their faith. We must not forget that the Mass comes in two parts, the first of which is the Liturgy of the Word, because we are fed by his word as well as his body and.blood, and it is appropriate for there to be a homily after the reading of the Gospel.

 

[steve_bakr]

I am quite old. What I can't take is the ridiculousness that's going on and I do not hate the Catholic Church but I do see the holes in it. The thing is just going to Mass to participant is something I can do anywhere. I can go to a baseball game to participate, a birthday party to participate. I go to Church to get feed because I need it after the week, I need a place I can rest in Christ and learn more about his plans. That is why I go to Church

Do you believe that the Holy Eucharist is the body, blood, soul, and Divinity of our Lord? Because your comparison of it to a baseball game I find a bit off base for the respect that is deserving of the Holy Eucharist. BTW, I am quite old too.