Why Catholics become Protestants

[christseeker45]

Its not allowed when you go for the reasons you gave for him going, so he can be 'fed'. We can not give credence to false teaching. I mean, you are recommending him going so he can listen to false teaching? Not all of it, but there will be some, no doubt. why would you think that is an option?

The Church says we are not allowed to do that. Sure as heck not allowed to partake of any, if there is any, communion of theirs. When we say Amen in our Church at Communion, we are saying we believe in all of this stuff and are united as Catholics. To go to a Prot church undermines this for one and it denotes a unity that is not there.

Now, you can go like in your case, for the sake of a spouse but you are not going for the teaching or the communion, you are going for the sake of your family. Totally different. but you know, the kids are to raised Catholic and you are to be trying to have you wife enter the Catholic Church.



Yeah me too. But the knocking Catholics (the people) and the Church, and not just his posts, there are other to saying some real insulting things about us and the Church. I guess no other Catholic is reading these posts because I am not pleased with how they have allowed them to disrespect us so much but yet, they want to call me out on what I say and I never one time said Protestants are fake. Or that homily suck or that the liturgy of the word is insigficant or the liturgy is unimportant or that we are to go through motions, rituals like we're pagans, stick our heads in the sand... I never said any of that. But yet I was called out on it when I never said it...

but those other comments, like our faith has holes and Mass is lacking and the Church teaches works and we do not teach Christ is enough and that no Catholic ever has ever had any joy but they are/we are cold... I was not unloving in the very least, but other were. and I did not condesend but yet, they want to correct me... Unbeliveable. But not really, its what this place is. the only time I used the word fake was in reference to the OBOB members who, I will not name names.

and Cristseeker, what you said was, "not fake like you're always typing..." did not leave anything out for convenience sake. I ain't like that. Accuse me of what I do, not what I don't do.

But in re reading it, that sounds like you were saying I'm always typing the word fake in referring to them. I can see where you meant that I'm always typing they are fake and you were not saying I am a fake. So we are cool on that note. However, I never one time typed they were fake. I said that only once in referring to the OBOB mebers when you said I was resetful. Yeah I am... and I explained why in just about every post and if no ones gets why I am by now, then, lawd.

So no more about how i'm hatin and have hidden resentment and what ever. Its you that has a clear issue with Catholics, the Church, Mass and everything else catholic. Its you who has resentment and I have allowed for long enough your projection of your issues onto me.

Don't be accusing me lady of things you did.

 

[steve_bakr]

I have been thoroughly versed in Catholicism, studied it extensively. I know about the Eucharist, Mass, Confession and all the other things that are necessary, I took in depth CCC classes when it came out. As far as study is concerned I have dotted all my i's and crossed my t's. I may not know all the terms all the time but I call tell you I have head knowledge. It still comes down to belief not just knowledge.

OK, Brother. It comes down to the fact that you need to go where you feel you're being led by God.

 

[MKJ]

I know that a Catholic is not allowed to have dual membership,but I thought it was OK to attend other services. Anyway, it was probably a bad idea.

I am taking Christseeker at his word. He says he is Catholic, but he does sound like someone who is very familiar with Protestent ideas and attitudes. I asked Christseeker if he believes that the Holy Eucharist was the body and blood of Christ, he said he did not know. He seems to be lacking in catechesis. There are some basic concepts that he does not seem to grasp, most evidently the sanctity and meaning of the Eucharist and our participation in it. He seems to know more about Protestantism than Catholicism, so he needs to learn more about his own faith.

To me it sounds more like his experience of liturgy and Christian life in his church has been so lacking that he has serious doubts about what he's been taught.

A healthy parish life should, as you said, include good preaching to give weekly teaching on Scripture, but also that experience of the community celebrating the Word together and Eucharist should be showing fruit in study groups of various sorts and also a community that supports individuals in their struggles and their learning. There really should not be adults who are falling through the cracks on these things.

In my experience it all works together - close attention to the Eucharist liturgy and other aspects of the communal prayer life of the parish (for Anglicans that means the daily offices offered in the church) lead to other study groups for adults, it leads to fellowship groups for Christians to have time together to discuss their lives, theology, hobbies, whatever - and that is really important to learning the faith and living it. It creates groups looking to reach out to the needy in the parish, and those in the community. Resources for people to do self-study are made available, and the leaders know the parishioners and help them find the kinds of resources and groups they need.

When people don't see this kind of thing, or efforts toward it, it holds them back in many ways and makes them wonder if there is any fruit of the Spirit. And with no fruit they begin to wonder about the basics - the sacramental and worship life of the parish.

To me if many people are finding something lacking in the sacramental life of the parish, that is deadly serious. It is not the normal occurrence which happens to everyone where we don't feel interested or energized or whatever. It has more to do with a feeling that the liturgy itself is somehow spiritually bereft or wrong-headed or empty. THat is something any parish should be seriously concerned about and I just cannot see putting it all on the people who notice the lack of content and all the benefits to the parish that flow out of that. It's a leadership issue.

 

[benedictaoo]

Don't be accusing me lady of things you did.

I did not do any of what you said I did. I have spoken charitable about this topic and said nothing personal about Protestants or Protestantism. And I gave you the benefit if the doubt that I did offend your sensibilities but I really didn't. I gave you the courtesy in the face of a false accusation that I hate them...

But I'm over it now... where is the resentment coming from? Right here, me having to always deal with this kinda stuff.

I never one time said, Protestants were fake nor did I demean or put them down. You, however, can not say them same for how you speak about Catholicism. You don't seem to much care for how you insult Catholics by saying we are cold and joyless and you never met a Catholic who represents themselves in a way that pleases you nor do we have Christ. that is what you said and its me who hates Protestants? and the fact that you refuse to apologize to me and all the Catholics here really speaks volumes, you know, actions that speak louder then words?

The Christian thing to do is to admit you made a mistake and say sorry. That is the Christian thing to do. I have bent over backwards explaining to you and accommodating you. Taking time out my life to help you because ya need it.

Nobody better not ever tell me Catholics who know, really KNOW their faith leave it for Protestantism. The may leave if it, they know it but not for anything else.

Once again, what I said was Protestants do not have the same theology as we do. To them, sanctification and transformation is worn like one wears a cap on the head. Covered up like dung... and they have no idea when this transformation happens, just that somehow, someway it does and God will make them ready for heaven (purified) in some kind of unknown to them, way.

The joy is being sanctified through the power of the Holy Spirit living with in us and He lives in ALL the baptized but there is a cooperation that goes into it. We have to accept and work with God's grace that IS NOT EARNED by GIVEN, freely because Christ died to give it to all men.

All we have to do is accept. We are baptized and we grow in this grace, it is in no way a instantaneous happening. It can be but that is so, so rare and it happens to the Saints, where in an instant they are transformed and its becuase their hearts are that open to it. Open to the Trinity that lives in us.

Faith, Hope, and Love. These are three theological virtues we are given at baptism and baptism is when the indwelling of the Trinity comes to live in us. This does not go away. When we are in sin, we are not living in this grace and have denied it and, hey, did you know? this is what blaspheming the Holy Spirit is... when we reject this grace we have been freely given, free of charge. Its not what Protestants all say it is.

The greatest effort and hardest work we will ever put into our salvation is mere acceptance. That is our working our way to heaven. Accepting the grace God freely gives. period! WE DO NOT WORK FOR ANYTHING... we acept what is GIVEN freely by God.

Got that? good.

Protestants faiths who are not mainstream and who are not liturgical, they just do not teach this, preach this or believe this... we do not believe the same things and so what you call joy is not what we call joy. Is not what IS joy. But you at ths point can think it to be what ever in the world you want to think it is because I'm done. Didn't i say i was not taking anyone's crap anymore... I swore I said that. So this is me just not taking this junk anymore.

I did NOT do any of what you said I did.

 

[benedictaoo]

I been Catholic for 17 years. I am not sure I wish to remain so

Well then you go to what ever congregation that makes you happy and you think about the fact that you left Christ's very own Catholic Church that He established and gave to us, died for, so that YOU can be fed, literally be fed His body, Blood, Soul and Divinity so you can be one with Him, be like Him, set apart and consecrated. Think about how you left that for a guy who talks. Think about how you feel that we can't be sanctified by Christ's own flesh and blood but by a guy who talks. Like... as if, a guy who talks to us, who gives his opinion on what he thinks the bible says, is actually what sanctifies us...

You have given *the* lamest reasons why you are having issues with the Church.

 

[christseeker45]

I did not do any of what you said I did. I have spoken charitable about this topic and said nothing personal about Protestants or Protestantism. And I gave you the benefit if the doubt that I did offend your sensibilities but I really didn't. I gave you the courtesy in the face of a false accusation that I hate them...

But I'm over it now... where is the resentment coming from? Right here, me having to always deal with this kinda stuff.

I never one time said, Protestants were fake nor did I demean or put them down. You, however, can not say them same for how you speak about Catholicism. You don't seem to much care for how you insult Catholics by saying we are cold and joyless and you never met a Catholic who represents themselves in a way that pleases you nor do we have Christ. that is what you said and its me who hates Protestants? and the fact that you refuse to apologize to me and all the Catholics here really speaks volumes, you know, actions that speak louder then words?

The Christian thing to do is to admit you made a mistake and say sorry. That is the Christian thing to do. I have bent over backwards explaining to you and accommodating you. Taking time out my life to help you because ya need it.

Nobody better not ever tell me Catholics who know, really KNOW their faith leave it for Protestantism. The may leave if it, they know it but not for anything else.

Once again, what I said was Protestants do not have the same theology as we do. To them, sanctification and transformation is worn like one wears a cap on the head. Covered up like dung... and they have no idea when this transformation happens, just that somehow, someway it does and God will make them ready for heaven (purified) in some kind of unknown to them, way.

The joy is being sanctified through the power of the Holy Spirit living with in us and He lives in ALL the baptized but there is a cooperation that goes into it. We have to accept and work with God's grace that IS NOT EARNED by GIVEN, freely because Christ died to give it to all men.

All we have to do is accept. We are baptized and we grow in this grace, it is in no way a instantaneous happening. It can be but that is so, so rare and it happens to the Saints, where in an instant they are transformed and its becuase their hearts are that open to it. Open to the Trinity that lives in us.

Faith, Hope, and Love. These are three theological virtues we are given at baptism and baptism is when the indwelling of the Trinity comes to live in us. This does not go away. When we are in sin, we are not living in this grace and have denied it and, hey, did you know? this is what blaspheming the Holy Spirit is... when we reject this grace we have been freely given, free of charge. Its not what Protestants all say it is.

The greatest effort and hardest work we will ever put into our salvation is mere acceptance. That is our working our way to heaven. Accepting the grace God freely gives. period! WE DO NOT WORK FOR ANYTHING... we acept what is GIVEN freely by God.

Got that? good.

Protestants faiths who are not mainstream and who are not liturgical, they just do not teach this, preach this or believe this... we do not believe the same things and so what you call joy is not what we call joy. Is not what IS joy. But you at ths point can think it to be what ever in the world you want to think it is because I'm done. Didn't i say i was not taking anyone's crap anymore... I swore I said that. So this is me just not taking this junk anymore.

I did NOT do any of what you said I did.

whatever

 

[benedictaoo]

I have been thoroughly versed in Catholicism, studied it extensively. I know about the Eucharist, Mass, Confession and all the other things that are necessary, I took in depth CCC classes when it came out. As far as study is concerned I have dotted all my i's and crossed my t's. I may not know all the terms all the time but I call tell you I have head knowledge. It still comes down to belief not just knowledge.

mmmm. no. no way, no one who is Catholic will ever buy that. U don't know and that is the problem you have or you don't know because you aren't really Catholic but in any event- ya don't know.

 

[christseeker45]

Well then you go to what ever congregation that makes you happy and you think about the fact that you left Christ's very own Catholic Church that He established and gave to us, died for, so that YOU can be fed, literally be fed His body, Blood, Soul and Divinity so you can be one with Him, be like Him, set apart and consecrated. Think about how you left that for a guy who talks. Think about how you feel that we can't be sanctified by Christ's own flesh and blood but by a guy who talks. Like... as if, a guy who talks to us, who gives his opinion on what he thinks the bible says, is actually what sanctifies us...

You have given *the* lamest reasons why you are having issues with the Church.

I heard this before from all groups so give me a break

. Sounds like so many others "Don't come to us and you'll go to Hell"

To you they are lame to others not so much, just because you view something one way does not mean everyone else does and FYI I never left anything, once again your making things up

 

[benedictaoo]

oh and PS, If you do know and you have crossed the t's and dotted the i's then you know who and what you are leaving. and that my friend is apostasy. Not calling you that but letting you know what it is... because I don't think you do know and that is a good thing because then you are really culpable for denying Christ. To know and still deny, when you know, is not good.

 

[christseeker45]

mmmm. no. no way, no one who is Catholic will ever buy that. U don't know and that is the problem you have or you don't know because you aren't really Catholic but in any event- ya don't know.

Says the resentful one

 

[benedictaoo]

This thread will be closed shorty. Its run its course and true colors, true-ooh-colors come shinning through... I see your true colors... true colors and in this case, not so beautiful, not like a rainbow.

peace out.

 

[christseeker45]

Your judging, you know nothing about the real me just an internet name. Before you start judging you should make sure you know what your talking about.

 

[benedictaoo]

and you don't think the same applies to you? I'm not judging you, I am telling you that you do not sound like a Catholic who knows the Catholic faith fully and correctly. You sound like a protestant. You may be a baptized Catholic and you may not have left formally but you talk like a Protestant. You talk like you been hanging around them. Allowing them to shape what you think about your own faith. So that is not judging, its being pretty observant and just being able to pick up on certain things, cuz like I said, this ain't my first rodeo. and if I wanted to argue what my faith is to those who have issues with it, I'd go to GT. Been there, done that, don't want to go back. Have no interest in convincing anyone of anything.

But I'm always happy to help anyone who wants to know what it is we do believe because it is very hard to understand and it takes time so if I can help others by explaining it, I am happy to do so but not when people play games with me. that makes me mad. I have no patience for that.

and you talk a big game of actions speaking louder then words but yet you complain about me judging... you do not see your own actions? You are pretty judgy yourself. and that also tells me something. I don't think you are "quite old". and I guess it is judging but not judging you but the situation.

I have no idea what kind of person you are... you may be a wonderful person for all I know. I may also be a wonderful person for all you know. That has little to do with this. I'm not judging what kind of person you are, just the situation because its very odd.

 

[christseeker45]

The situation is what it is. Your right in some capacity I was judging you, we all do that to a certain degree most of the time. I could have said that you sounded resentful instead of saying the word hateful.

You have no right to tell me what type of Catholic I am from my post. Don't mistake my internet presence for the real me, I am not the real me all the time expect now. When I get into debates like this I love the argument and may play, for lack of a better word, the devil's advocate. You further try to assume my age because I do not respond the way you think I should, again an assumption on your part. You made the mistake of assuming that from my writings I wanted to leave the Church, that could not be further from the truth.

Just because someone writes something that may not be the whole story.

 

[newbeliever02072005]

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