Why can't we have threads for only Orthodox Members without OBOB posters?

[MariaRegina]

Several members at the Ancient Way have attempted to discuss topics of interest to Orthodoxy only to be given negative posts by Catholic members who wrongly perceive certain Orthodox teachings as anti-Catholic. It only seems fair that these negative posts would be systematically deleted in this forum but they are not. Why?

The Protestant forums are likewise experiencing OBOB intrusion, where the threads are transferred to IDD only to be trashed.

This involves several members of OBOB who will remain nameless and who continually repeat this type of offensive behavior. Yet these same OBOB members can attack Orthodoxy within the OBOB forum without any corrections whatsoever.

I have honestly tried to post charitable corrective responses in OBOB in a question format which is allowed, only to have my posts repeatedly deleted, yet over in TAW obviously offensive posts by OBOB posters are not deleted. Why?

How do you as Orthodox Christians feel about this?

 

[prodromos]

I think a certain amount of slack needs to be given to the Roman Catholic members on the forum. I'm sure you yourself have fond memories of constantly having to deal with the "harlot of Babylon" and "Pope is the antichrist" type of posts so I think they can be excused for being overly sensitive. Even if you believe you are posting well withing the rules of the OBOB forum, they may well perceive things differently. It's their forum so we have to play by their rules, however restrictively they may interpret them.

Since Orthodox members have not really had to deal with the same sort of extreme attacks as Catholics, we're generally not nearly so sensitive to perceived negative attacks. It just gives us opportunities to more clearly explain our position , though I'll admit it is frustrating when people refuse to try and understand.

I'm not sure about Orthodox only threads, I suspect it may be counter productive but I'm curious to see what others think. I've only been here a short time so I'll happily defer to the thoughts of longer standing members.

 

[MariaRegina]

I think a certain amount of slack needs to be given to the Roman Catholic members on the forum. I'm sure you yourself have fond memories of constantly having to deal with the "harlot of Babylon" and "Pope is the antichrist" type of posts so I think they can be excused for being overly sensitive. Even if you believe you are posting well withing the rules of the OBOB forum, they may well perceive things differently. It's their forum so we have to play by their rules, however restrictively they may interpret them.

Since Orthodox members have not really had to deal with the same sort of extreme attacks as Catholics, we're generally not nearly so sensitive to perceived negative attacks. It just gives us opportunities to more clearly explain our position , though I'll admit it is frustrating when people refuse to try and understand.

I'm not sure about Orthodox only threads, I suspect it may be counter productive but I'm curious to see what others think. I've only been here a short time so I'll happily defer to the thoughts of longer standing members.

Dear Prodromos:

For the record, please visit the recently closed thread entitled: Papal Powers Revisited on this TAW forum (somewhere buried between pages 3 to 5). The growth of papal powers is important to address because it is at the heart of the Great Schism of 1054. In that thread there are some negative posts which were never deleted. However, if I had dared to post that kind of negativity over at OBOB, I would have been immediately banned, I kid you not, with my posts deleted. There seems to be a double standard here which allows Catholics to act badly without their offensive posts being deleted.

One of my friends on this board was considering becoming a Catholic but encountered this bad treatment at the hands of certain OBOBers and decided against it. She was terribly hurt by people who misjudged her words and called her names. The very same thing is happening to me by some people who constantly twist my words. I can handle it-- I have grown to expect this sarcastism and pettiness, but what about visitors to our forum? This is what concerns me. How many people have seen this immature behavior on the part of Christians and have become hurt, confused or even agnostics or atheists?

Let us pray for all who are sincerely seeking Christ our God.

Yours in Christ our God,

Elizabeth

 

[Oblio]

As a mod in TAW, I prefer to have the users edit their own posts or ideally exersize restraint when they originally post. I would rather not edit, or even worse trash a thread because there is a controversial post or two. Where there are clear violations I try to remove the posts if the offending poster does not. I guess I am a bit shy about airbrushing history or moderating in a manner like our 'Christian' friends over at TBTSNBN.

 

[Philip]

As a mod in TAW, I prefer to have the users edit their own posts or ideally exersize restraint when they originally post. I would rather not edit, or even worse trash a thread because there is a controversial post or two. Where there are clear violations I try to remove the posts if the offending poster does not. I guess I am a bit shy about airbrushing history or moderating in a manner like our 'Christian' friends over at TBTSNBN.

Second.

 

[artnalex]

Chanter,
I agree you should have your own area where only EO's can post. I will not post here again unless specifically asked via a PM or by name in a thread. HOWEVER, you may want to revisit your comments about having an EO only forum, as you are one of the most frequent visitors and posters in the OBOB forum. Not only that, but you have [consciously or subconsciously] posted things that are very EO, and not Catholic. Your recent post, which Skripper confronted you on, is just one example. Your comments would have the reader believe that Catholics are caught-up in defining mystical realities, resulting in a lessened state of worship, while EO's just worship all day long. That was done in the OBOB forum. You have yet to admit or apologize for that. Although I would never ask you to.

The biblical verse having to do with removing the beam from one's own eye before removing the splinter in the others comes to mind here.

You can have the last word, as I will not post here (unless your post specifically asks me to). Despite my criticism of an individual, I really do think of EO's as brothers and sisters - as I have a very close and personal friend who is likely to be a Greek Orthdodox priest within the next 2 years.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Chanter . .

I really don't know what to say .. I hardly ever come into this forum, and today I decide to do so, and I see I am no longer welcome here . . And I am surprised that you would want it this way, as it seems that you have been so inerested in keeping dialogue open between groups and post freely in all three forums yourself . . . .


Peace in Him!

 

[Photini]

I think I understand (as much as I am able) both sides. The sticky area is discerning which conversations to back away from. This is very hard to do. When we think we have to correct and refute every wrong thing...it really is not likely to draw others near, or to help them understand.

On the other hand...when others are nasty and defensive, and we remain calm and peaceful...it glorifies God, and makes people interested in Orthodoxy. I know this to be true, because I have been PM'd by other members of the board who are expressing interest in Orthodoxy now. I thank my big brothers and sisters who are shining as good examples, and may God be glorified in us.

 

[Photini]

One other thing...Elder Paisios the Athonite said that it is prideful to think we can correct others. I think this is definitely true.
But when we are humble, God will use us to correct the hearts of those who are in error.

 

[Matrona]

Several members at the Ancient Way have attempted to discuss topics of interest to Orthodoxy only to be given negative posts by Catholic members who wrongly perceive certain Orthodox teachings as anti-Catholic. It only seems fair that these negative posts would be systematically deleted in this forum but they are not. Why?

The Protestant forums are likewise experiencing OBOB intrusion, where the threads are transferred to IDD only to be trashed.

This involves several members of OBOB who will remain nameless and who continually repeat this type of offensive behavior. Yet these same OBOB members can attack Orthodoxy within the OBOB forum without any corrections whatsoever.

Well, I can't say as I mind on the occasions when they put in their two cents, like Cleopa of Emmaus (sp?) did in my thread on icons, or Pax did in Andreas's thread on icons. Those posts, for example, were relevant and informative. And I can't blame the OBOB people for being furious in a recent thread in P/R/E that denounced the Mother of God--if it wasn't blasphemous, it was extremely close, and I was furious about it, too.

However I think perhaps they should remember that what they say about us might not be exactly true. If they want to be able to protest misconceptions about them in P/R/E and TAW, they ought to let non-Catholics politely protest misconceptions in OBOB. As long as everyone is polite and keeps an ecumenical spirit when posting in another group's forum, things should work out better.

 

[Maximus]

I don't visit this web site all that much anymore, but I would say that here, in this type of place, which is frequented by Protestants and others, it is best to avoid divisive controversy.

I don't think it is good to discuss the issues that divide Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, or Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox here.

There are Orthodox and Catholic web sites where that sort of thing goes on daily.

This web site, however, in my view, should be different.

Apostolic Christians should form a united front. We agree on so much more than that upon which we disagree. A lot of what we supposedly disagree about is blown out of proportion by those with a particular axe to grind or who, for some unfathomable reason, benefit from the continuation of our sorry schism.

I am also very disappointed to see a thread like this one, which cannot but be hurtful toward our RC friends.

Some of them have posted some really great stuff here from time to time.

A thread like this one could result in a "big chill" and a reduction in cooperation.

 

[MariaRegina]

Chanter,
Your recent post, which Skripper confronted you on, is just one example. Your comments would have the reader believe that Catholics are caught-up in defining mystical realities, resulting in a lessened state of worship, while EO's just worship all day long.

Dear Art:

I've always respected your posts and you are always welcome to post in the Ancient Way forum. Sorry I didn't respond earlier but I've got a life to lead also, and that means entertaining relatives, attending the university, etc.

I'm sorry you misunderstood my reference to Pope John Paul's comments on the two lungs of the Church being the East and the West. This papal statement referred to the tendency of the East toward mysticism and the tendency of the West toward defining dogmas. I never stated that the "EO's just worship all day long." However, doesn't St. Paul encourage all of us to pray without ceasing. So, it's an obligation binding on all Christians (Catholic, Orthodox and Protestants) as we are all told by Christ: "Be perfect as My Heavenly Father is perfect."

Do you see how words become grossly distorted by others? This is the danger of Internet communications. We should strive to be charitable and not misquote others.

I guess you realize that a moderator conveniently deleted my post, Skripper's response, and Michelina's excellent post. She gave some deep theological insights and spent a lot of time composing it. It's sad her post was deleted.

Yours in Christ our God,
Elizabeth

 

[MariaRegina]

Well, I can't say as I mind on the occasions when they put in their two cents, like Cleopa of Emmaus (sp?) did in my thread on icons, or Pax did in Andreas's thread on icons. Those posts, for example, were relevant and informative. And I can't blame the OBOB people for being furious in a recent thread in P/R/E that denounced the Mother of God--if it wasn't blasphemous, it was extremely close, and I was furious about it, too.

However I think perhaps they should remember that what they say about us might not be exactly true. If they want to be able to protest misconceptions about them in P/R/E and TAW, they ought to let non-Catholics politely protest misconceptions in OBOB. As long as everyone is polite and keeps an ecumenical spirit when posting in another group's forum, things should work out better.

Dear Matrona and Therese:

I agree that Cleopa of Emmas, Pax, Proud2bCatholic, etc. and both of you have been responsible and charitable. It's just that some negative posters don't edit their posts and continue to be negative. It does cast a chill on the thread.

Unfortunately, some good threads have been trashed by them -- and their negative posts have never been edited or deleted. So if they don't like a topic, they just trash it and this has become a predictable habit. It's this controlling, unchristian behavior that should be stopped.

It's become such a predictable habit, that if they post on a site, I know there will be problems. These are the nightmares who love to trash IDD, PRE, as well as TAW, and OBOB threads, etc. If the moderators don't have time to deal with this, perhaps the search feature in our profiles should be disabled for such stalkers, or our posts and names be made somehow invisible to them.

Sorry, Photini, we just cannot ignore these people as they are turning people away from Christianity. I know -- I've gotten emails and PM from those who were deeply hurt.

That is why I started this thread to brainstorm ways to stop this verbal abuse.

Prayerfully in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[thereselittleflower]

Chanter, I think Catholics and Orthodox need a place where we can discuss and debate issues between our two groups without people outside our 2 groups coming in and derailing threads . . we are asking in OBOB for such a place, and JefferyLloyd is considering it .. of course Erwin has to agree so perhaps both groups could request this, that way we have a place to discuss things between us outside of IDD . .


Peace in Him!

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

Chanter, I think Catholics and Orthodox need a place where we can discuss and debate issues between our two groups without people outside our 2 groups coming in and derailing threads . . we are asking in OBOB for such a place, and JefferyLloyd is considering it .. of course Erwin has to agree so perhaps both groups could request this, that way we have a place to discuss things between us outside of IDD . .


Peace in Him!

I am all for another subforum, where us ancient brothers and sisters can discuss things charitably. I believe that we can learn things from one another and build bridges. I think most importantly that it may foster a place where we can pray together also, for unity and growth. I look forward to this possibility.

 

[CeeBee]

This is my first day (I think) to visit the TAW forum and I would like to apoligize on behalf of my Catholic brothers and sisters. I will start a threa in OBOB where I can tell people, or ask them , to please stop.

 

[MariaRegina]

This is my first day (I think) to visit the TAW forum and I would like to apoligize on behalf of my Catholic brothers and sisters. I will start a threa in OBOB where I can tell people, or ask them , to please stop.

Dear Catholic friend:

We all have to be extremely careful to post all of our messages with love. I admit that I have failed and I have sincerely tried to amend my ways. We have to learn to forgive those who have offended us and not hold onto grudges. If we all did this, CF would be much more friendly and truly a Christian haven.

On the other hand, there are some issues that divide us. Sometimes we need to study these issues more deeply without fear, but in studying these issues we may be misunderstood. This is where our problem lies. How do we studiy sensitive theological opinions (dogmas, doctrines) which may offend someone else? We tend to have the thought that if my church is right then your church must be wrong, but not everything is so black and white, especially the filioque issue.

I talked with an Orthodox priest who is on the Orthodox-Catholic commission. He says that there is much that unites us and so little that divides us, but we tend to focus on the negative. This leads us away from Christ who is the Head of the Mystical Body of Christ.

Lovingly yours in Christ our God,
Elizabeth

 

[Photini]

Sorry, Photini, we just cannot ignore these people as they are turning people away from Christianity. I know -- I've gotten emails and PM from those who were deeply hurt.

I just now realized you mentioned my name in this post....may I ask why you are apologizing to me?

 

[MariaRegina]

I just now realized you mentioned my name in this post....may I ask why you are apologizing to me?

Dear Photini:

I was responding to your previous post where you said we should just ignore the negative posters, so I was just using a figure of speech. "Sorry" in that we cannot ignore evil -- sometimes we have to stand up and face ridicule. Sometimes we cannot remain silent in the presence of evil -- especially sarcastic posters who turn people away from Christ. St. John Chrysostom could have remained silent and not suffered exile, but he corrected the Empress for her vanity. Ultimately this shortened his life.

I guess I tend to be more of an extrovert in this regard. I like the quote posted in OBOB from Edwund Burke admonishing us to be eternally vigilant and reminding us that evil can succeed when good men choose to remain silent. However, we must have a healthy balance in our prayer life and our active life. This is where most people fail. Truly we need the monastics whose prayer is needed in a world where few pray.

Just something to think about.

Your sister in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[Photini]

I think I understand (as much as I am able) both sides. The sticky area is discerning which conversations to back away from. This is very hard to do. When we think we have to correct and refute every wrong thing...it really is not likely to draw others near, or to help them understand.

On the other hand...when others are nasty and defensive, and we remain calm and peaceful...it glorifies God, and makes people interested in Orthodoxy. I know this to be true, because I have been PM'd by other members of the board who are expressing interest in Orthodoxy now. I thank my big brothers and sisters who are shining as good examples, and may God be glorified in us.

I quote myself here. I don't see where I said we should always ignore the negative posts. I don't consider myself "a good man" who remains silent...I am a sinful passionate person. I don't respond to a quarter of what I want to. I feel it's only going to be less and less as time goes on, except for fellowship posts, and conversation with my Orthodox brothers and sisters.
Sometimes I feel like there are a few posters who scan through threads just looking for the topics they can correct others on. This is terrible.

And is remaining silent necessarily the same thing as ignoring?
I am simply saying we must have discernment in which topics to involve ourselves in, and must approach it in a peaceful and calm manner. Also have Scriptural and widsom from our Fathers speak through you, not merely us speaking from our passions.