Why can't we have threads for only Orthodox Members without OBOB posters?

[MariaRegina]

I quote myself here. I don't see where I said we should always ignore the negative posts. I don't consider myself "a good man" who remains silent...I am a sinful passionate person. I don't respond to a quarter of what I want to. I feel it's only going to be less and less as time goes on, except for fellowship posts, and conversation with my Orthodox brothers and sisters.

Sometimes I feel like there are a few posters who scan through threads just looking for the topics they can correct others on. This is terrible.

And is remaining silent necessarily the same thing as ignoring?
I am simply saying we must have discernment in which topics to involve ourselves in, and must approach it in a peaceful and calm manner. Also have Scriptural and widsom from our Fathers speak through you, not merely us speaking from our passions.

Dear Photini:

I'm sorry I misunderstood you.

I'm not accusing you of remaining silent -- you have given brilliant posts.

I totally agree with you here. I do try to pray first and wait for others to respond -- and many times they respond better than I could. Many times I don't respond at. In the OBOB right now, there are several sarcastic replies which I have chosen to ignore; nevertheless, I do pray for these people. I don't display the scorn which they show me. How are we going to have unity with these errors, sarcasm, and false charges flying back and forth? Even the commonly quoted New-Advent is often out of date in certain of their pages, especially regarding Orthodoxy.

Lately I have just been asking questions, and not giving an answer, but even a question can backfire, because someone misunderstands my intention.

If I see an obvious breach of the CF rules, then I will report a post and let the moderators handle it. But sometimes, there is no obvious violation of a CF rule but a terrible misunderstanding of our faith where we are labeled and we are referenced to some Catholic website run by Catholic laity (not theological-trained clergy) which perpetuates the myth.

Another problem is the terminology. I can read a passage from the OCA and understand it, but a Roman Catholic might read the same passage and totally misunderstand the terminology. Communication isn't easy especially when it becomes a "you said" "he said" argument.

I think we have made some progress, especially when we speak on birth control and divorce, although newbies might not understand. This is the problem with new evangelical people coming into the forum -- gotta break them in.

Let us pray for more patience and understanding between Christians.

Prayerfully in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[Photini]

How are we going to have unity with these errors, sarcasm, and false charges flying back and forth?

Funny you say this. I just received a new book today from my godmother. It's called Precious Vessels of the Holy Spirit. Have you read it? I am only 30 pages into it, and already am struck by it. Here I quote:

"Divided people are not able to form a unified world. The division of the world externalizes the internal division of man. The center of universal division is found in the heart of man, in the inner man. The division which is created in the heart surpasses every external division. This is the reason that the foundation of the unification of the world, the foundation of true universality, is found in the heart of man."
The monk cultivates his internal unity by bringing his mind, which is dispersed in the environment, into his heart, into the spiritual center of his being. Love for God, which is the foundation of Christian life, is born in the heart of man through faith. When the heart of man burns with love for God, it assimilates the mind and in this way man is unified, is healed." pgs. 27-28

I know this isn't directly related to the subject at hand...(then again maybe it is), but what are we doing, and are we doing enough to heal the division within ourselves? When our internal divisions are healed, we unite with God, and then all other divisions are healed.

 

[MariaRegina]

Funny you say this. I just received a new book today from my godmother. It's called Precious Vessels of the Holy Spirit. Have you read it? I am only 30 pages into it, and already am struck by it. Here I quote:

"Divided people are not able to form a unified world. The division of the world externalizes the internal division of man. The center of universal division is found in the heart of man, in the inner man. The division which is created in the heart surpasses every external division. This is the reason that the foundation of the unification of the world, the foundation of true universality, is found in the heart of man."
The monk cultivates his internal unity by bringing his mind, which is dispersed in the environment, into his heart, into the spiritual center of his being. Love for God, which is the foundation of Christian life, is born in the heart of man through faith. When the heart of man burns with love for God, it assimilates the mind and in this way man is unified, is healed." pgs. 27-28

I know this isn't directly related to the subject at hand...(then again maybe it is), but what are we doing, and are we doing enough to heal the division within ourselves? When our internal divisions are healed, we unite with God, and then all other divisions are healed.

Dear Photini:

Yes, this very pertinent. Please do post this excerpt in the new thread: Orthodox Christian Recommended Spiritual Reading. I haven't heard of this book, but Metropolitan Hierotheos, St. John of Kronstadt, and St. Seraphim of Sarov say the same thing. So do all of our Orthodox Saints.

Your sister in Christ,
Elizabeth

P.S.

One feature I really appreciate here at CF is the fact that we can go and edit our old posts, which may be unknowingly offensive to others. No other board allows that to my knowledge. If 12 or 24 hours has passed, there is no way of editing a post unless one is a moderator.

 

[Skripper]

Dear Art:

I've always respected your posts and you are always welcome to post in the Ancient Way forum. Sorry I didn't respond earlier but I've got a life to lead also, and that means entertaining relatives, attending the university, etc.

I'm sorry you misunderstood my reference to Pope John Paul's comments on the two lungs of the Church being the East and the West. This papal statement referred to the tendency of the East toward mysticism and the tendency of the West toward defining dogmas.

(Emphasis mine)

On what do you base this interpretation of Pope John Paul's meaning?? In the OBOB thread you stated that you did not know which pope said it. Neither did you suggest that this may be the pope's understanding. You simply stated it ("it" being the difference between the two Churches) as if it were a fact, prior to and unrelated to this statement by JPII, which you brought up later. So it's not really fair to say that anyone twisted your words. It (your argument, not the papal statement) was also presented in such a way as to present the Western Church in a negative light.

I don't know, but I tend to doubt that in describing the Eastern and Western branches of the Church as "two lungs" that the pope had in mind or was referring to the East tending towards mysticism and the West toward defining dogmas. Isn't it possible that this is your understanding and not the pope's?

 

[MariaRegina]

On what do you base this interpretation of Pope John Paul's meaning?? (In the thread, you did even know which pope said it, much less offer this as the interpretation as to his meaning.) I don't know, but I tend to doubt that in describing the Eastern and Western branches of the Church as "two lungs" that the pope had in mind or was referring to the East tending towards mysticism and the West toward defining dogmas. Isn't it possible that this is your understanding and not the pope's?

Dear David,

After Pope John Paul II made that statement, the Greek Catholic Bishop, His Grace John Elya, explained this statement to us when we gathered at the annual 1993 Melkite Family Life Convention. Michelina just reminded me which pope had made the statement that the Church breathes with two lungs.

Of course, this is off topic, and not all Orthodox believe that the time is ripe for reunion. We still have to learn to communicate in love and with patience. I believe that this should be our first goal.

Yours truly in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[KennySe]

As questions are allowed from outsiders I ask: in the body what does one lung do that the other does not?

(see #5)
http://www.cin.org/jp2/jp961221.html

 

[Skripper]

Dear David,

After Pope John Paul II made that statement, the Greek Catholic Bishop, His Grace John Elya, explained this statement to us when we gathered at the annual 1993 Melkite Family Life Convention. Michelina just reminded me which pope had made the statement that the Church breathes with two lungs.

Chanter,

You heard this explanation of the pope's meaning at a gathering you attended in 1993? I would be interested in reading His Emminence Bishop Elya's explanation. Can you provide this? I could be wrong, but I think the pope's statement came some years after 1993. I would have to do a little research, but I think it was made around 2001? (Can anyone verify this?)

Of course, this is off topic, and not all Orthodox believe that the time is ripe for reunion. We still have to learn to communicate in love and with patience. I believe that this should be our first goal.

Yours truly in Christ,
Elizabeth

Agreed. I think Maximus said it very well, a ways up the thread. There is so much more we agree on than disagree. We really should present a united front, whenever possible, to the rest of the Christian (and non-Christian) world.

I very much love, honor and respect the Eastern Church. I am also extremely grateful to my Eastern brothers and sisters here in CF, who stand side by side with us from the Western Church, in defense aginst the seemingly endless onslaught from the various Protestant groups here in CF. Rarely is the Orthodox Church, specifically, attacked. It is normally the Catholic Church that is. And we (members of the Roman Church) are in debt to our Orthodox brethren for coming to our aid, in defense of our overwhelmingly common beliefs.

 

[MariaRegina]

Chanter,

You heard this explanation of the pope's meaning at a gathering you attended in 1993? I would be interested in reading His Emminence Bishop Elya's explanation. Can you provide this? I could be wrong, but I think the pope's statement came some years after 1993. I would have to do a little research, but I think it was made around 2001? (Can anyone verify this?)

His Grace Bishop John rarely saves his sermons. But I heard him use the phrase that the Church breathes with two lungs more than once. That is one of his favorite quotes. He frequently attended Orthodox-Catholic clergy meetings to discuss reunion. He knows all the Orthodox Bishops personally and considers them to be his friends.

Agreed. I think Maximus said it very well, a ways up the thread. There is so much more we agree on than disagree. We really should present a united front, whenever possible, to the rest of the Christian (and non-Christian) world.

I very much love, honor and respect the Eastern Church. I am also extremely grateful to my Eastern brothers and sisters here in CF, who stand side by side with us from the Western Church, in defense aginst the seemingly endless onslaught from the various Protestant groups here in CF. Rarely is the Orthodox Church, specifically, attacked. It is normally the Catholic Church that is. And we (members of the Roman Church) are in debt to our Orthodox brethren for coming to our aid, in defense of our overwhelmingly common beliefs.

Thanks, David.

Your sister in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[Benedicta00]

Elizabeth,

I am a little surprised by your courage to open a thread like this, as many times as you have disagreed with members in OBOB and many threads were closed as a result- even our prayer thread was closed down briefly as a result. IIRC you even asked a Catholic member to not post in a thread you opened in OBOB. What is up with the double standard? Why would you think it is okay for you to discuss things openly here with out Catholics posting and feel you have free reign in OBOB? I am quite surprised and would loved to hear your reasoning and justification.

 

[KennySe]

In 1985, Pope John Paul II first said, "The Church must learn to breathe again with its two lungs--the Eastern one and the Western one."

And I ask again: In the body what does one lung do that the other does not?

 

[Reader Nilus]

All I know as Orthodox there is no such thing as two lungs. It sounds like the Anglican branch theory, which no Orthodox would hold to.
Jeff the Finn

 

[Skripper]

All I know as Orthodox there is no such thing as two lungs. It sounds like the Anglican branch theory, which no Orthodox would hold to.
Jeff the Finn

Jeff,

I don't think it's the same as the Anglican branch theory but rather an attempt to emphasize the synergy that could be obtained when the Church breathes fully with both lungs at some point in the future. Plus, a healthy body needs two lungs to function properly; no more, no less. So the Anglican branch theory sort of doesn't apply.

 

[Reader Nilus]

As Orthodox, the Church is whole and functioning wholely. There is nothing in the future that would add to the wholeness that is already, except the Second and Glorious Coming.
Jeff the Finn

 

[Skripper]

As Orthodox, the Church is whole and functioning wholely. There is nothing in the future that would add to the wholeness that is already, except the Second and Glorious Coming.
Jeff the Finn

You see no value in reunification?

 

[Reader Nilus]

The Church has always been whole, those who seperated are always welcome back, but the Church is not divided never has been and never will be.
Jeff the Finn

 

[Skripper]

... those who seperated are always welcome back...

Precisely.

 

[Skripper]

In 1985, Pope John Paul II first said, "The Church must learn to breathe again with its two lungs--the Eastern one and the Western one."

Kenny,

Thanks. For some reason, I was thinking it was much later, like when he made some of his more recent trips into eastern areas a few years ago. But you're right, it was much earlier than I thought, and he has used this phraseology repeatedly throughout his pontificate as well.

 

[MariaRegina]

Elizabeth,

I am a little surprised by your courage to open a thread like this, as many times as you have disagreed with members in OBOB and many threads were closed as a result- even our prayer thread was closed down briefly as a result. IIRC you even asked a Catholic member to not post in a thread you opened in OBOB. What is up with the double standard? Why would you think it is okay for you to discuss things openly here with out Catholics posting and feel you have free reign in OBOB? I am quite surprised and would loved to hear your reasoning and justification.

http://www.christianforums.com/t83703

The prayer thread was closed down briefly because an OBOBer misunderstood a prayer intention. Strange you would bring that up. Let's be charitable and forgive, okay? God forgives and I forgive.

 

[KennySe]

How is Shelb5's question answered by a link to a thread on OBOB, where the OP says IN BOLD that he invites Catholic and Orthodox responses?

 

[MariaRegina]

How is Shelb5's question answered by a link to a thread on OBOB, where the OP says IN BOLD that he invites Catholic and Orthodox responses?

Recently, that is the type of thread I respond to. Or else I ask a question and wait for someone to ask me a question.

People do change, but some people can't accept that. Again, let's forgive and move on in charity.

What do you think of the Orthodox priests telling the disgruntled Catholics to "go home to the Catholic Church"?