Why can't God send us all to Heaven?

[Noxot]

haha that was funny.

 

[strangertoo]

haha that was funny.

so you think it's amusing that God is right and yet most men don't follow His words ?... or perhaps is it you think it's amusing to quote words out of context in vain attempt to avoid their meaning in context, as sinners do with scripture continually , caught in the vicious circle of continual sin taught by continual sinners to the many ?

either way seems somewhat 'foolish' [meaning unloving, God-less] to me , whaddya say ?

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

 

[Timothew]

Now that was funny. Albeit in a sad way.

 

[Godchaser_70]

Thanks. I consider this to be one of the most important verses in the Bible;1 John 4:16... he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.


So many people put conditions on God. God doesn't exist under our conditions; (God created man. Then men create God. That is the way it is in the world - men make gods and worship their creation. It would be fitting for the gods to worship men!~ Philip)

What we see, we see through a glass darkly. A man either learns to Love, or He does not. That does not stop the True God from Loving him. God has all eternity and infinite resources to work on a soul; I don't know what the final disposition will ultimately be, other than what a few inspired men wrote. But a man still writes through the lens of a man, so I am content to leave it up to God.

The promise of Heaven, or the fear of Hell? That's not why I exist. That to me, is putting the cart before the horse.

cool i love that message

 

[strangertoo]

cool i love that message

Originally Posted by Soulgazer

Thanks. I consider this to be one of the most important verses in the Bible;1 John 4:16... he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

​

I think this verse summarises what God requires to do with man, to persuade us to try Love of one another and find out how great it is, eventually to all love one another and so mankind is eventually happy in life unlike this world ... but what it does not say which is said many times elsewhere is that few find the way of Love in this world because of the religion of men as continual sinners , for sin is the opposite of Love, sin prevents God coming within...

so teachings in mass religion which allow continual sin within the many divided mass churches of sinners is not only what gives 'God' a bad name in many eyes but the main force that destroys this earth , people grab the false opportunity to live as sinners and have sinners tell them they are saved as sinners, but without Love perfected , without God within, there is no baptism of the spirit , no knowing God's Truth, no entry to the kingdom... so indeed there are only tens of thousands with Jesus when he leaves again [Jude 1:14] for the new earth to build the kingdom come

So many people put conditions on God. God doesn't exist under our conditions; (God created man. Then men create God. That is the way it is in the world - men make gods and worship their creation. It would be fitting for the gods to worship men!~ Philip)

It would not be fitting for anyone to worship men , even Jesus said worship the Father , God the spirit of Love... there is only Love that is worthy of our worship and that is how we 'see' God , that is how Jesus taught us what God is ... God is Love , which is the part left out in the above partial quote:-

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
...
1 John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

What we see, we see through a glass darkly.

God can show us Himself through Love and teach us all truth and the future [John 16:13] once we stop sinning and chose to Love instead , but that is to know God from the creation, as-it-were in a dream ... so much more beyond measure to know God in spirit ... to be 'taken' from belief in apparent reality of that which ends to actual reality of that which simply endlessly is , endlessly creates

A man either learns to Love, or He does not.

all will learn to Love , as there is no other 'way out' of life ... death only brings [seemingly instant] resurrection to a 'later time' although to others one has slept a thousand years , slept through creation of the kingdom of God in the new earth and heavens...

That does not stop the True God from Loving him.

God is Love, not even Satan escapes that Truth in his rebellion not unlike our own... God cannot stop being God , cannot end, cannot cease to Love His creation... so even Satan has nowhere to go but to find sin doesn't work even for him in the end, to turn to Love as we all progressively do , each in his own time...

God has all eternity and infinite resources to work on a soul;

'eternity' is endlessness, not an 'infinity of time' but time-less being without end... space-time is the universe, time begins and ends with this universe, can begin and end with another universe such as the new earth and heavens , but the point is that time is finite, created, it ends... physical life is in time, the spirit creates time, is not within time... God creates enough time for all to repent sin and perfect Love because that is what God CHOOSES for this creation and the next [for mankind destroys the viability of this earth with sin, needs more time to come to Love]

I don't know what the final disposition will ultimately be, other than what a few inspired men wrote.

Jesus revealed that all creation will accept him eventually, one can accept this now or later , but it is the word of God ... all will Love , even the prodigal son of God, Satan, at the end of time in the new earth and heavens... creations all end as they began, but the spirit is endlessly creative , no end to different creations...

But a man still writes through the lens of a man, so I am content to leave it up to God.

God is willing to reveal all truth and teh future [John 16:13] to anyone who stops sinning against others and himself ...

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

it is far from a popular message, is ignored by most people who read it and by all mass religion of men [sinners then] , only the saints have listened and Jesus reveals how few they are [about two thousand alive at any one time scattered in the whole earth ...hardly rated as a religion then, just individual good men caring for the poor as they serach out the next egeneration of saints, as saints have foreshortened lives, they are unwelcome by all authorities of men , including religionists, because people follow them with complete faith in their Love...

The promise of Heaven, or the fear of Hell? That's not why I exist. That to me, is putting the cart before the horse.

one would only fear 'hell' if one believed what sinners say , Jesus points out that all are freed from hell [Rev 20:13] so there's an end to that myth used to scare folks into churches of sinners...

as to the promise of heaven, it is automatic because God Loves all creation... so it is only a question of 'when' ? ...some Love in this earth and see the third heaven [paradise] first , countless many Love in the next life and see paradise at the great judgement day in the new earth [Rev 7:9-10] ... satan drags it out to the very end of time in the new earth, when everyone else has deserted him to find God was right, Love is the only way ... in the end ... by Love we can be happy from inside even in this world, and a very few never need to even see death because they Love naturally, never get tempted to follow the ways of the many in this earth...

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

 

[Emmy]

Dear Capuano. You had some good replies, may I ask this question? it is very important. Imagine Heaven, with God who is all Love, and us, as we are now? How would we fit? Still selfish and wanting our will every time? Imagine us, as we are now, would Heaven be still Heaven? or would it be more like Earth, where only a few love God as He deserves to be loved, and instead of loving our neighbour, we would ignore others to get our own selfish will in all we do, or say?
No, dear Capuano, God is in Heaven, and Jesus will lead us IF we are ready to join our Heavenly Father. When will that be? When we have learned to love God with all our hearts, with all our souls, and with all our minds. Also: when we love our neighbour as we love ourselves. God made us all in His image, we know what it is to love and care. And Jesus will give us His Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit will empower us with His strenght to love and care. Jesus told us to: " ask and ye will receive," then we thank God and share all Love and Joy with our neighbour. ( all others, friends and not friends) God will know that we love Him, because we follow His Commandments to love freely, and NO conditions asked. I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[Noxot]

so you think it's amusing that God is right and yet most men don't follow His words ?... or perhaps is it you think it's amusing to quote words out of context in vain attempt to avoid their meaning in context, as sinners do with scripture continually , caught in the vicious circle of continual sin taught by continual sinners to the many ?

either way seems somewhat 'foolish' [meaning unloving, God-less] to me , whaddya say ?

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

nope i think it was funny that he was quoting you out of context, I wonder if it was wrong to do that now. i was just kind of rejoicing, it felt good. it feels good to not take everything so seriously sometimes, if you are really uptight like I was, it was a relief to laugh at something, it made my heart cheerful. i want to be that dude that laughs while he is getting stoned to death and saying 'I see Jesus". i want puppies and hugs for all, for people to not bite at each other and laugh small things off.

yeah i was certainly being foolish, ignorance is bliss sometimes, I don't think it is always a bad thing. i hope what i did was not wrong, i did not intend to hurt anyone with the way i replied.

also yes I find it very amusing and joyful that God is right, i was thinking that when i laughed at it too, that "yeah only God is the truth" I'm pretty goofy sometimes, I like being cheerful, one day my cheerfulness will be perfected.

i'm very ignorant, so very ignorant, i want to become more ignorant and get closer to the unknowable God. I want to be innocent like the child that Jesus loves.

 

[strangertoo]

nope i think it was funny that he was quoting you out of context, I wonder if it was wrong to do that now. i was just kind of rejoicing, it felt good. it feels good to not take everything so seriously sometimes, if you are really uptight like I was, it was a relief to laugh at something, it made my heart cheerful. i want to be that dude that laughs while he is getting stoned to death and saying 'I see Jesus". i want puppies and hugs for all, for people to not bite at each other and laugh small things off.

yeah i was certainly being foolish, ignorance is bliss sometimes, I don't think it is always a bad thing. i hope what i did was not wrong, i did not intend to hurt anyone with the way i replied.

also yes I find it very amusing and joyful that God is right, i was thinking that when i laughed at it too, that "yeah only God is the truth" I'm pretty goofy sometimes, I like being cheerful, one day my cheerfulness will be perfected.

i'm very ignorant, so very ignorant, i want to become more ignorant and get closer to the unknowable God. I want to be innocent like the child that Jesus loves.

do you not see any point in taking discussion of the word of God seriously in a world that has committed itself to sin whilst God commands Love else He cannot baptise a sinner with His spirit until they stop sinning :-

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

as for ignorance ,it is an advantage if one knows one does not know before God teaches one , but not if one is not prepared to learn from God Himself... and to do that one must learn from someone or from the scripture, or both, that no-one gets baptised by God until they stop sinning... that is ALL it takes, but it is ESSENTIAL, the very foundation...
so there is the problem for men, most religion teaches one can go on sinning until one's death-bed, but God says there are three baptisms in life and water baptism [dying to sin, stopping sinning is just teh FIRST, the foundation...

 

[strangertoo]

Dear Capuano. You had some good replies, may I ask this question? it is very important. Imagine Heaven, with God who is all Love, and us, as we are now? How would we fit? Still selfish and wanting our will every time? Imagine us, as we are now, would Heaven be still Heaven? or would it be more like Earth, where only a few love God as He deserves to be loved, and instead of loving our neighbour, we would ignore others to get our own selfish will in all we do, or say?
No, dear Capuano, God is in Heaven, and Jesus will lead us IF we are ready to join our Heavenly Father. When will that be? When we have learned to love God with all our hearts, with all our souls, and with all our minds. Also: when we love our neighbour as we love ourselves. God made us all in His image, we know what it is to love and care. And Jesus will give us His Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit will empower us with His strenght to love and care. Jesus told us to: " ask and ye will receive," then we thank God and share all Love and Joy with our neighbour. ( all others, friends and not friends) God will know that we love Him, because we follow His Commandments to love freely, and NO conditions asked. I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

This is so deeply true... but I would point out that it is the third heavens, paradise ,which is God , Spirit... this heavens and earth are destroyed...
as are the next ... all in due time as they fulfill their purpose...

 

[Jpark]

Luke 17:21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

Matt. 12:28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Luke 16:16 “ The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it.

Matt. 8:16 When evening came, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed; and He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were ill.

1 Thess. 1:5 for our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction

Matt. 4:23 Jesus was going throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness among the people.

Matt. 9:35 Jesus was going through all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.

This is heaven:

Jesus said, “Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or farms, for My sake and for the gospel’s sake, but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.

I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.

 

[strangertoo]

Luke 17:21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

Matt. 12:28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
[/QUOT
E]

The ruling [more literal rendering than 'kingdom'] of God is indeed apparent in Jesus and the few [Jude 1:14] saints

but as Jesus said, his kingdom is NOT of THIS earth :-

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Luke 16:16 “ The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it.

again, a less misleading rendering of translation :-
Luke 16:16 YLT Young's Literal Translation
the law and the prophets [are] till John; since then the reign of God is proclaimed good news, and every one doth press into it;

remember that the crowds pressed Jesus to be king of Israel then and there ... but jesus refused because he knows men are nt ready yet en masse and the kingdom of saints is not ready for a thousand years after his return for the many either :-

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [only] the first resurrection.[of saibnts -Jude 1:14, rev 7:3-8, Matt 7:14] --- and the many DESTROYED [Mat 7:13] but countkless many LATER saved [Rev 7:9-10]

Matt. 8:16 When evening came, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed; and He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were ill.

Yes, we have even more direct proof of baptism of the spirit of Jesus and the few saints... but ONLY of the few who will be saved for being saints, not sinners at Jesus return ... as Jesus says, he will deny any who do not stop sinning , which is almost everyone [Matt 7:13] only tens of thousands of saints at the first resurrection [Jude 1:14, Rev 7:3-8] under the new covenant of forgiveness of those WHOSE FATHERS were rejected for breaking the old covenant [Heb 8:8-12, Jer 31:31-34] :-

Matthew 7:23 And then will I [Jesus] profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

1 Thess. 1:5 for our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction

sadly the gospel preached in most places worldwide now is said by Jesus himself to be false :-

Matthew 26:13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.

the anointing is the ritual anointing of the kings of Israel, anointing Jesus as the Christ, the Messiah of Israel... but sinners wish to deny Israel , deny even that the oT prophecies are of God, deny that Israel is now forgiven in a new covenant of grace only with Israel's tow nation by name, only with those whose fathers broke the old covenant - Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:8-12

it is written in every BIBLE but ignored by almost everyone in the world bar the few saints ... so indeed the true gospel of the Christ which he sent out by his disciples is lost to almost all men already, most do not know what the Christ is ...

Ezekiel 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

Matt. 4:23 Jesus was going throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness among the people.

for the very good reason of finding who would become saints, but we know how many do become saints by Jesus' return - Jude 1:14 - and the MANY of this earth , even the mass religions with their false gospel of salvation NOW for the many as still sinners, not saints at all, are DESTROYED for continuing sin in the wrarth of God [Matt 7:13]

Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Matt. 9:35 Jesus was going through all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.

Jesus indeed was baptised of the holy spirit, but sinners cannot be until they stop sinning, turn to Love, die to sin as one is supposed to in water baptism [hence the absurdity of baptisng babies, how can an innocent baby turn from sin LOL?]

This is heaven:

well, no, it's the earth ... but the kingdom is on earth, ruled by the saints under Jesus on earth, not in heaven :-

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

it is just not this earth because this earth AND heaven are destroyed , mankind is destroyed off this earth [Matt 7:13] in the wrath of God against all still sinners , religious or not...

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.[Israel]

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Thus as Jesus says, his kingdom is not of THIS earth [except in hearts and minds of the few saints], but it is on earth , not in heaven, the new earth in the new created heavens God promises , as Peter, Jesus, Isaiah record for us ...

Jesus said, “Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or farms, for My sake and for the gospel’s sake, but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.

the trouble is very few know the true gospel, as I pointed out above, few even know what Jesus came for, what the Chist /Messiah is prophesied to do, the promises of God he is BOUND to fulfil ... mostly because maost are taught by sinners to ignore the OT because Israel was rejected, never LOOKING to see that the new covenant is ONLY with the descendants of thiose who broke the old covenant, who were rejected, whose children are ACCEPTED as the ONLY ones under grace - Heb 8:8-12, Rev 7:3-8 - that the many are saved who are destroyed in this earth [matt 7:13] but countless many are saved only LATER [Rev 7:9-10] and by WORKS after they are ALL released from hell and death [Rev 20:13] ... revealing yet another lie to sinners, fear of hell and death ...

thus consider still-births and the infant of days and the amny who lived and died BEFORE Christ came ...their FIRST opportunity to LOve and be baptised of the spirit is along with all sinners of THIS earth resurrected at the second resurrection , freed from sin by death , and judged by works in the righteous kingdom come in the new earth works AFTER resurrection and before being SAVED at judgement day , not condemned for sin in THIS earth ...

so the many need no grace , only the few saints of Israel listed by Jesus by descent from the sons of Jacob, Israel... BUT note MOST are NOT Jews, never were Jews, lived as idol-wrshippers, not Judaists , until promted to tur=n to the God of Love by the work of Jesus and the few saints in this earth, not by the false gospel of the mainline religions who deny the explicit role of the messiah, to unite Israel as a nation of priests for the kingdom in the new earth, by whom are the many sinners of THIS earth later saved in the new earth...

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

thus we find Jesus himself saying the ONLY reason why he was sent by God :-

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

which is why it is so absurd that sinners refuse to learn who the House of Israel was, even though they are written about throughout the OT and NT and the new covenant of grace EXPLICITLY FORGIVES THEM and the Jews [the smaller house of Judah]

I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.

indeed all mankind will accept Jesus in the end , just as Jesus promises, but in this earth only a few saints follow him [Jude 1:14]... work it out ,it means about two thousand saints only, and scattered worldwide because that is where the House of Israel are to whom Jesus sends them to find the next generation of saints so the tiny churh of God's saints doesn't die out :-

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

 

[dollarsbill]

the trouble is very few know the true gospel,

Are you one of the "few"?

as I pointed out above, few even know what Jesus came for, what the Chist /Messiah is prophesied to do, the promises of God he is BOUND to fulfill

How do we get to be one of the "few"?

... mostly because maost are taught by sinners to ignore the OT because Israel was rejected, never LOOKING to see that the new covenant is ONLY with the descendants of thiose who broke the old covenant, who were rejected, whose children are ACCEPTED as the ONLY ones under grace - Heb 8:8-12, Rev 7:3-8 - that the many are saved who are destroyed in this earth [matt 7:13] but countless many are saved only LATER [Rev 7:9-10] and by WORKS after they are ALL released from hell and death [Rev 20:13] ... revealing yet another lie to sinners, fear of hell and death ...

Sinners? Who here isn't a sinner? Alas Jesus taught us about Hell. Are you saying that Jesus lied to us?

Matthew 18:8-9 (NASB)
8 "If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9 "If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.

 

[strangertoo]

Are you one of the "few"?

that will be judged by who is taken by Jesus at his return, not by me
but here is one of the two signs of the true gospel given us by Jesus :-
Matthew 26:13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her. :-

Mary anointed Jesus as king of Israel , the Christ/Messiah [it means 'anointed' ... all kings of Israel are ritually anointed , even Jesus did not realise immediately why she has done it, then he saw what it meant , that she knew he is the Christ come to unite the two nations of Israel and needed ritual anointing as king ... that is simply not taught in churchhes of sinners, but understanding what the Christ is is obviously important and Jesus pointed out that without it the gospel is empty... what use knowing Jesus is Christ if one doesn't know what the Christ is ? - the word 'Messiah' is from the Hebrew [so used in the OT] , the word Christ is from the Greek[so used in the NT] and means 'anointed one' , not referring to the Holy Spirit , but to the anointing with oil of kings of Israel as Mary did [which is actually symbolic of anointing with the holy Spirit]

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Ezekiel 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

this is why Jesus said he was sent by God ONLY to the lost House of Israel

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

thus first the remnant children of Israel, BOTH some Jews AND far more 'gentiles' of the lost House of Israel [merged with gentiles long ago, even before the Jews were scattered]

Jesus lists the few in Rev 7:3-8 and most are not Jews , only one in seven of those listed will be Jews... most saints will come from the gentiles them, which is where Jesus sent his originally mostly Jewish disciples ...

How do we get to be one of the "few"?

there are three baptisms spoken of by John the baptist in being saved as a saint [Jude 1:14] :-

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

thus it is necessary to understand what they MEAN ...

baptism of water is the foundation of God, the first step , and most fail it , because it is a declaration of DEATH to sin... to stop sinning, depart from all iniquity :-

Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

so read CAREFULLY what the saints teach sinners ... one must first stop sinning else there is a SEAL ... one cannot recieve the second baptism of the spirit until one stops sinning against others and oneself... because sin is the opposite of Love , sin is breaking God's Law of Love , Love of God is in keeping God's law of Love ... sin then excludes God :-

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

Do you see how FEW people take baptism in water seriously ... it is NOT about the ritual itself, it is about dying to sin , departing from iniquity so that God can come within, the baptism of the spirit to know all truth and the future [John 16:13] ... perhaps you see the nonsense of baptising babies ...

then there is baptism of 'fire' the perfection of Love in TRIAL ... note that jesus went through all three baptisms to SHOW us the way... then went through death to SHOW us not to fear death and resurrection to the body...

Sinners? Who here isn't a sinner? Alas Jesus taught us about Hell. Are you saying that Jesus lied to us?

the saints are FEW and scattered worldwide, one can work out that with tens of thousands only of saints taken by Jesus [Jude 1:14] ther are on average oonly some two thousand saints in the world... that is about one in three million... so in any place one is unlikely to meet a saint ... that is no reason to disbelieve Jesus that they are there ...

as for 'hell' Jesus tells us ALL are resurrected from death and hell [Rev 20:13] so you did not even learn what Jesus said about hell, that it is destroyed in the lake of fire , there even cannot be endlessness except in the spirit with God , nothing physical lasts , not even time ,not even space, not even the universe ...

so read what Jesus says and weep at the lies sinners preach worldwide when only saints are ordained as priests to be able to preach the TRUTH from spirit baptism, NEVER sinners...

Revelation 20:13 ...death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.

all then are freed from hell according to Jesus himself ... and hell and deathare not endless, they are destroyed...

Matthew 18:8-9 (NASB)
8 "If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9 "If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.

as we have discussed many times , it is a mistranslation by sinners and not even possible for any physical fire to burn endlessly ...

so read about what 'fire ' symbolises in scripture if you have the common sense or scientific knowledge to realise physical fire cannot be eternal...

as for the dead, they cannot feel anything in cremation ... fire is no threat to the dead...

the spirit of a man always returns to God :-

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

it is the spirit which creates the living soul , so by the spirit are all men resurrected who die... death and hell have no sting ...

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

God is spirit, what is of God is indestructible as God... so of the many destroyed in the wrath of God against all sinners, almost all men [Matt 7:13] countless many are saved at judgemnt day [Rev 7:9-10] ... note that FEW find the way in this life [Matt 7:14, Jude 1:14

thus sinners have that wrong too, rather ironice really, that sinners CAN only be saved by what they now most do not accept in scripture because they prefer to listen to what sinners teach, to sinners obviously false translation of key scriptures , obvious even from the same scriptures and equally from examining the world]

 

[dollarsbill]

that will be judged by who is taken by Jesus at his return, not by me
but here is one of the two signs of the true gospel given us by Jesus :-
Matthew 26:13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her. :-

Mary anointed Jesus as king of Israel , the Christ/Messiah [it means 'anointed' ... all kings of Israel are ritually anointed , even Jesus did not realise immediately why she has done it, then he saw what it meant , that she knew he is the Christ come to unite the two nations of Israel and needed ritual anointing as king ... that is simply not taught in churchhes of sinners, but understanding what the Christ is is obviously important and Jesus pointed out that without it the gospel is empty... what use knowing Jesus is Christ if one doesn't know what the Christ is ? - the word 'Messiah' is from the Hebrew [so used in the OT] , the word Christ is from the Greek[so used in the NT] and means 'anointed one' , not referring to the Holy Spirit , but to the anointing with oil of kings of Israel as Mary did [which is actually symbolic of anointing with the holy Spirit]

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Ezekiel 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

this is why Jesus said he was sent by God ONLY to the lost House of Israel

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

thus first the remnant children of Israel, BOTH some Jews AND far more 'gentiles' of the lost House of Israel [merged with gentiles long ago, even before the Jews were scattered]

Jesus lists the few in Rev 7:3-8 and most are not Jews , only one in seven of those listed will be Jews... most saints will come from the gentiles them, which is where Jesus sent his originally mostly Jewish disciples ...


there are three baptisms spoken of by John the baptist in being saved as a saint [Jude 1:14] :-

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

thus it is necessary to understand what they MEAN ...

baptism of water is the foundation of God, the first step , and most fail it , because it is a declaration of DEATH to sin... to stop sinning, depart from all iniquity :-

Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

so read CAREFULLY what the saints teach sinners ... one must first stop sinning else there is a SEAL ... one cannot recieve the second baptism of the spirit until one stops sinning against others and oneself... because sin is the opposite of Love , sin is breaking God's Law of Love , Love of God is in keeping God's law of Love ... sin then excludes God :-

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

Do you see how FEW people take baptism in water seriously ... it is NOT about the ritual itself, it is about dying to sin , departing from iniquity so that God can come within, the baptism of the spirit to know all truth and the future [John 16:13] ... perhaps you see the nonsense of baptising babies ...

then there is baptism of 'fire' the perfection of Love in TRIAL ... note that jesus went through all three baptisms to SHOW us the way... then went through death to SHOW us not to fear death and resurrection to the body...



the saints are FEW and scattered worldwide, one can work out that with tens of thousands only of saints taken by Jesus [Jude 1:14] ther are on average oonly some two thousand saints in the world... that is about one in three million... so in any place one is unlikely to meet a saint ... that is no reason to disbelieve Jesus that they are there ...

as for 'hell' Jesus tells us ALL are resurrected from death and hell [Rev 20:13] so you did not even learn what Jesus said about hell, that it is destroyed in the lake of fire , there even cannot be endlessness except in the spirit with God , nothing physical lasts , not even time ,not even space, not even the universe ...

so read what Jesus says and weep at the lies sinners preach worldwide when only saints are ordained as priests to be able to preach the TRUTH from spirit baptism, NEVER sinners...

Revelation 20:13 ...death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.

all then are freed from hell according to Jesus himself ... and hell and deathare not endless, they are destroyed...



as we have discussed many times , it is a mistranslation by sinners and not even possible for any physical fire to burn endlessly ...

so read about what 'fire ' symbolises in scripture if you have the common sense or scientific knowledge to realise physical fire cannot be eternal...

as for the dead, they cannot feel anything in cremation ... fire is no threat to the dead...

the spirit of a man always returns to God :-

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

it is the spirit which creates the living soul , so by the spirit are all men resurrected who die... death and hell have no sting ...

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

God is spirit, what is of God is indestructible as God... so of the many destroyed in the wrath of God against all sinners, almost all men [Matt 7:13] countless many are saved at judgemnt day [Rev 7:9-10] ... note that FEW find the way in this life [Matt 7:14, Jude 1:14

thus sinners have that wrong too, rather ironice really, that sinners CAN only be saved by what they now most do not accept in scripture because they prefer to listen to what sinners teach, to sinners obviously false translation of key scriptures , obvious even from the same scriptures and equally from examining the world]

You must really have a difficult time deciding which sinners to believe. Hell is literal and eternal in the NT.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by strangertoo that will be judged by who is taken by Jesus at his return, not by me
but here is one of the two signs of the true gospel given us by Jesus :-

You must really have a difficult time deciding which sinners to believe. Hell is literal and eternal in the NT.

Try explaining that to the unbelieving Jews of today

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
Jesus vs the Pharisees

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man has been the foundation for many of the erroneous beliefs about "hell" within traditional Christianity. Some have viewed it not as a parable, but as a true story Yeshua told to give details about the punishment of sinners in hell.

Yet a thorough, unbiased examination of this story will show that the generally accepted interpretations of this passage of Scripture are erroneous and misleading. In this article, we will go through the parable verse by verse to determine what the Messiah was truly teaching

 

[strangertoo]

You must really have a difficult time deciding which sinners to believe.

I don't believe any sinners... Jesus was no sinner and I have no trouble believing him , the siants were not sinners any longer and their words are good too ... and then there is the only way to get into the kingdom, sprit baptism, where God teaches one all truth Himself [John 16:13]

So I can hardly believe that you prefer to beieve sinners, but it explains at lot... why not try learning fro scripture of saints and prophets and Jesus instead, it is a very different tale they tell than in churchjes of sinners tun by sinners for sinners... and teh church of god has no sinners , all have to sTOP sinning before receiving spirit baptism from God ...

these are basic bible truths, why not read them in your bible ?

Hell is literal and eternal in the NT.

As Jesus says , all folks are freed from death and hell , read it, do you believe Jesus ? this is the NT ! :-

Revelation 20:13 ... death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

I have explaned this from scripture elsewhere in the thread, but you cannot understand scripture without reading it and seeking to understand it from God , by the Holy spirit, without which no-one gets into the kingdom, again it is Jesus says this, do you believe him or sinners ?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[strangertoo]

Try explaining that to the unbelieving Jews of today

The misleading of many Jews by apostate Judaism's authorities is no different than the misleading of the mass churches of sinners by other sinners in other religious trdaitions of men... the things to notice are the DIVISION both within and between them showing that they have lost connection to God's ONE truth , and the verification of that falling away by simply comparing what they say to the word of God from the saints and prophets of God

but in this particular case, it is as well to notice from scripture that only sme 20,000 saints are Jewish in Rev 7:3-8 , the list of saints taken by Jesus at his return ... so bearing in mind most of these are dead, including the early Jewish disciples , that would be about 300 Jewish saints alve at any one time on average ... maybe a few more now because Jesus went firts to find the House of Israel amongst the gentiles.

Jews are much easier to find and God has said i is the remant of the House of Israel 's descendants who will make the Jews jealous with their knowledge of the Messiah ... so consider if one has all truth [John 16:13] from God, not men, that one still has a task finding one of teh 300 or so Jews who actually await the true gospel of the Jewish Messiah also being the Christ of those who are apparently gentiles, the lost House of Israel's descendants now forgiven their idol-worsip by God in the new covenant with those whose fathers broke the old covenant [Heb 8:8-12, Jer 31:31-34]

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Deuteronomy 32:21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish [i.e. god-less] nation.

Isaiah 7:8 For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

so it is just as well not to get distracted by the masses whom we KNOW will worship the wrong god ,as Jesus has said it must happen that all the world does so before his return e.g. Rev 13:3-4 ... so much for mass religion even when it does unite worldwide [under the final Antichrist, one 'in place of' the returned Christ]

the people Jesus sent his followers to find are one in three million in the earth today ... one does not find them without devoting one's life to the search, and few sinners do that - which actually makes it easier , because by definition those still sinners cannot know God

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
Jesus vs the Pharisees

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man has been the foundation for many of the erroneous beliefs about "hell" within traditional Christianity. Some have viewed it not as a parable, but as a true story Yeshua told to give details about the punishment of sinners in hell.

Yet a thorough, unbiased examination of this story will show that the generally accepted interpretations of this passage of Scripture are erroneous and misleading. In this article, we will go through the parable verse by verse to determine what the Messiah was truly teaching

this parable is so against so much of the rest of scripture that I do not believe it even could be written by a saint , I do not believe it is scripture at all but an insert ...

clearly a dead man cannot call out , let alone call to heaven where all are spirit , so it cannot be literal ...

equally it is the only supposed parable in scripture to name it's character , and meaninglessly to do so... that is simply not the way of parables, everything has meaning in a parable...

as for punishing the dead , it is as futile as flogging a dead horse , but that is the main method of traditional religion of sinners for they are like the walking dead without spirit baptism [and God will not anyone still a sinner]...

Jesus said death is like a sleep till resurrection, and Solomon said we know nothing in death... that is hardly torment... only the living know torment , the spirit cannot be punished or tormented, it always returns to God who gave it ...

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

one cannot torment or in any way harm God , God is not subject to anything physical

also Jesus went through hell to show us NOT to fear death and resurrection ... there was no warning ever of anything but a sleep in death from Jesus

Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

note the passive sense of being left in hell ...

in fact Jesus says all folks are freed from death and hell [Rev 20:13] and indeed of the many destroyed in this earth [Matt 7:13] countless amny are saved AFTER release from death and hell [Rev 7:9-10] ... that is almost all men are saved after hell ... and the tribulation in life before death is the only torment men know , which is terrible enough that men will likely call it 'hell' , terrible beyond anything in the past according to Jesus... but in dearth and hell one knows nothing ... one will simply die and seemingly the next instant be in the kingdom come in the new earth... for most a thousand years and more have passed ,but one knows nothing of them...

the idea of a dead man being thirsty , well its nonsense isn't it, but if symbolic then I suppose it pictures the helplessness of death because one can only stop sinning , be baptised of the spirit, and perfect Love in life ... death means one starts again ...

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Saul Smilansky of Haifa University echoed something Spinoza [whom Shopenhauer said was a saint] of great significance here, basically proved that the common notion of free-will is an illusion which merely suits the mentality of mankind at this time ... although elabourate and extensive, the main essence of the point made is that we believe in cause and effect and so our behaviour is causally determinate even if we cannot always determine the cause... the necessary implication being that mnakind although held responsible [to some limited extent] is NOT even possibly so...

the point is valid but not popular ... but if one can appreciate it then the idea of God punishing mankind for what God created is rather bizarre to say the least, and punishing the dead with fire ? ... well many folks are cremated but we don't regard that as a punishment... and one cannot punish the spirit, it is of God...reurns to God [likely not yet free because it must manifest in life to lear to Love, be baptised , and perfect is Love in trial before freedom of translation and manifestation when at One with God by having rejected the physical ... so there is trial even for saints, infact especially for saints, God surely chastises to teach men in life, but even God cannot punish the dead , it would be punishing Himself and He cannot , nothing can harm God... God is all ...nothing to harm Him... so even the chastisement in life is only part of the illusion of life which changes...

this so-called parableis thus so alien to the whole scripture that it is surely just one of many little edits to scripture like the ones that make all the copies of scripture different here and there... we indeed have no clear knowledge of the original, only partly diverse copies... so we know it has been abridged, edited... this parable fits nothing else in scripture and adds nothing but disparity ... whilst one must take extreme care doing so, I think one must conclude it is an addition, not original ...

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[dollarsbill]

I don't believe any sinners... Jesus was no sinner and I have no trouble believing him

Never said He was.

, the siants were not sinners any longer and their words are good too ... and then there is the only way to get into the kingdom, sprit baptism, where God teaches one all truth Himself [John 16:13]

So I can hardly believe that you prefer to beieve sinners, but it explains at lot... why not try learning fro scripture of saints and prophets and Jesus instead, it is a very different tale they tell than in churchjes of sinners tun by sinners for sinners... and teh church of god has no sinners , all have to sTOP sinning before receiving spirit baptism from God ...

these are basic bible truths, why not read them in your bible ?

You offer no Biblical proof.

As Jesus says , all folks are freed from death and hell , read it, do you believe Jesus ? this is the NT ! :-

Revelation 20:13 ... death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Keep reading.

Revelation 20:15 (NASB)
15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

I have explaned this from scripture elsewhere in the thread, but you cannot understand scripture without reading it and seeking to understand it from God , by the Holy spirit, without which no-one gets into the kingdom, again it is Jesus says this, do you believe him or sinners ?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

None of which says what you are saying, that we don't sin.

 

[strangertoo]

You offer no Biblical proof.

No, you just don't read what has been written... here or in the bible...
Psalms 6:8 Depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity; for the LORD hath heard the voice of my weeping.

Proverbs 16:6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Keep reading.

Revelation 20:15 (NASB)
15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

I have written about the final baptism of fire in the lake of fire elsewhere on the site many times , and it is clear from reading scripture that names are written in and blotted out from the 'book of life' as men sin and stop sinning :-

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
...
Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

but the point is that the wages of sin is only death , whether it be one's first death or a second death, death only delays one facing God's Truth about Love eventually, ceasing to abuse others with isn and turning to God's far better way of life He has told us about from the beginning, but few yet listen [Matt 7:14] and the many destroyed [Matt 7:13] , so consider the second stage of God's redemption of creation fo a moment else you can hardly understand the last , the many are destroyed in this earth's destruction, but countless many of them are later saved [Rev 7:9-10] ... to understand this simply ask why God would resurrect sinners at all , let alone billions of them whom he knows many will go to war straiight away ... yet coutless many of them follow the few saints inthe kingdom come and are saved , judged righteous by God at judgement day ...
consider then why they are resurrected and how many of those destroyed are later saved...

then you nay begin to see that Jesus is not joking when he says ALL creation will accept him in the end , but few do now ,despite what many SAY ... Jesus points out that mass religion in THIS earth will worship a false god created by Satan, and the Antichrist in place of him... so we can understand the division of religion [showing us that most of it is lies, delusions, false interpretations] ... so why not read the scripture and find out that the ONLY way to know God is to stop sinning and Love ...sin really is abusing others, not Loving them :-

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 John 4:16...and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

so there is the beauty of it, God will teach everyone Himself one day [Joel 2:28, John 16:13] and all this silly talk about different religions, cults, sects, denominations will be ended , ONE Truth about Love and the only thing that always got in the way, sin... and of course sinners teach sin is ok , but God never said any such thing...God said Love , so no sin... but few will listen to and so know God in tis life... matters not since the many were never meant to be saved in this life ...man is not raedy yet to stp sinning, and the kingdom is thus not ready yet to help save them from themselves until the new earth and heavens...

so simply stop sinning and God will explain all as quickly or slowly as you can take the Truth [first the truth about oneself, one's hidden sins , one's denial] ...but some go through two deaths AND spirit baptism before they realise sin hurts others, because by then others are hurting them with sin, God has alread taken away the one's who won't fight back...

so it is poetic justice converts those in the lake of fire , suffering their own sin :-

Psalms 10:2 The wicked in his pride doth persecute the poor: let them be taken in the devices that they have imagined.

all have to have their Love trialled, it is called baptism of fire :-

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

so much for taking it literally ? all saints are baptised with fire

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

how do we know all will yield to God's truth ? well Love itself is a proof , but the bible states it many ways , not least taht all will accept Jesus as king when he rules in the kingdom come [a few even accept him now and do what he says, Love, not sin] :-

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

those few who believe in Love, not sin, now are taken to serve all later as kings ond priests, but obviously most men cannot be kings and priests , God requires only 144,000 for that Rev 7:3-8

why so few ? ... because salvation is a power process , God uses the first few to help save the billions in the new earth kingdom come... it is simply the efficient way of persuading men to try Love as FEW will stop sinning now...

so consider this, that Jesus says he saves 144,000 , confirmed as literally only tens of thousands of saints by Jude 1:14

and each of these is made the very image of Christ, perfect in Love , so each will be able to save a similar number in the kingdom come ready for judgement day .. that is 20 billion... comparable to the number of men that ever lived... so that is why Jesus takes so few under grace of the new covenant, the many are freed from sin by death, and again in the second death for those who sin in the kingdom come

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

the wages of sin is not punishment, men punish themselves hard enough by their sin without any further punishment , no the wages of sin is death to free man from sin, to start again to next time maybe LISTEN to God and Love and be HAPPY from inside out instead of living empty sinful lives of conflict with oneself [for even the rich are miserable souls, can never think they have enough as they starve others with their ways by power of money over sinners]

None of which says what you are saying, that we don't sin.

clearly most folks do sin in this world, Jesus says only about one in three million aive today have stopped sinnig and are thus baptised of teh spirit to know all Truth of God and the future [John 16:13] and the rest will be destroyed [Matt 7:13] , so all mass religion of sinners destroyed ...

but I have quoted the many scriptures about sin , why do you not READ them in your bible , how can you miss them ?

Psalms 6:8 Depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity; for the LORD hath heard the voice of my weeping.

Proverbs 16:6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell
you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Titus 3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

[dollarsbill]

I have written about the final baptism of fire in the lake of fire elsewhere on the site many times , and it is clear from reading scripture that names are written in and blotted out from the 'book of life' as men sin and stop sinning :-

The Lake of Fire 'baptism' is eternal.

Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.