Why can't God send us all to Heaven?

dollarsbill said:

Be specific. Which verses?

And why do you keep quoting YOUR translation if they are correct?

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BTW, if you want to see "MY" translation, here it is. I never quote it though:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7438795/#post54079795

christianmomof3 said:

Where does the Bible say that it is God's goal to send everyone - or anyone for that matter - to heaven?

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Well I hope this question was answered from the Bible and not from some private interpretation. It's important to realise that heaven was never going to be a place for everyone. Right from man's start here on the earth God had in place a purpose so that all of his creation would be happy, and that the pinnacle of his creation, us, would be able to live without end.

Now we know Adam and Eve were seduced by the dark side. If he wasn't where would he have gone? The Bible answers in quite clear terms. Adam and Eve would, if they had stayed faithful, have remained on the earth. The Bible says so. (See Gen. 1:26, 2:16,17 also Isa.45:18) Heaven is a place for only ones who God chooses to send there, and for a purpose. We must remember that God will do something only if it fits and fulfills his will and purpose, he doesn't do things any other way.

So the way to heaven opened up when God finally rejected the Jewish people as a whole as being his covenanted people. They broke the agreement time and time again, leaving God to finally reject them. The conversion of Cornelius showed that to God all men regardless of nationality can be saved. (See Romans 9:6, 2:28,29) Not only that all men regardless of nationality can enter into one of the two `sheepfolds` which Jesus is the Great Shepherd. (John 10:1-16)

So the prospect for all who continue to do God's will, and those who put faith in his Son is bright. As many people say, there is nothing wrong with the earth, just the people on it. Those who refuse to listen to God's word will meet their end, those who willingly obey what God asks of them will be blessed forever, just as Adam would of if he'd remained faithful.

dollarsbill said:

Hell is the eternal fire that torments forever. Is that where you're going?

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like I said, it is proven that there is no 'forever' [infinity] of time and the mistake is easily traced to a simple mistranslation by sinners of one word in Greek [aionios] and one in Hebrew [olam] which both refer to an AEON of time, a long time, but FINITE, not infinite

as to where we are all going, Jesus himself tells us, our own love tells us too :-
Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. [literally until the age of the ages, until the END of time]

Matthew 5:29 (NASB)
29 "If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
That contradicts the NT.

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'hell' [hades, sheol is only the 'invisible place of the dead' , there is no fire there according to scripture and no-one knows anything in death , no point in flogging a dead horse or a dead man , nor would endless punishment be anything but meaningless violence ,not the act of the loving God, nor is possible to punish anything physical for ever because punishment is destructive , physical things can only take finite punishment... God really doesn't do meaningless things... God chastises even the saints to perfect them, with a PURPOSE, not meaninglessly...

being thrown into hell is just dying, the wages of sin... everyone is FREED from hell according to Jesus [Rev 20:13] and judged by their loving works or sin in the righteous kingdom come in the new earth after death and hell give them up to life [the resurrection of all the unjust]

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Matthew 25:41, 46 (NASB)
41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

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SAME problem, same word , 'aionios ' , proven to be a mistranslation by sinners... there is no eternity because God destroys the universe, created things begin and END ... so time cannot be infinite as it is created , Einstein proved also that space-time is ONE thing, that time is created and alterable according to velocity , disproving Newton's assumption that it should be infinite... this is physical proof taht the translatin 'eternal' is wrong

equally life is obviously not infinite , it ends , so there is no eternal life , not even in the next world, and the bible says so too...

Isaiah 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

In the verses I just quoted 'eternal' life and 'eternal' punishment use the exact same Greek word. Eternal life does not end and neither does eternal punishment.

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your assumption is rather obviously false, life DOES always end , only the spirit is endless ... the 'life' of God is without change so is very different from our life which is BY continual change ...so you are conflating the endlessnes of the spirit with physical life which always ends - eventually all life ends in 'translation to spirit ' because the spirit is not subject to ending, it is of God :-

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

note that this includes spirits that men regard as evil because they are destructive , unloving ... God uses these to trial the saints to perfect their love :-

1 Samuel 16:23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul,

Genesis 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

This is not about the saints. It is about the lost. Those whose names are not written in the Book of Life.

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I don't think you understand, the bible says folks names can be crossed out in the Book of Life, they can equally well be written in when folks repent fully, are baptised of the spirit, and have their love perfected in life by trial of love [fire of temptation, baptism of fire]

Jesus tells us that ALL CREATION will accept him and so all men will be saved eventually [if one believes what Jesus says, if not then we have little to discuss here] ... so all men will be written into the Book of Life eventually, but only very FEW in THIS life , in THIS world [Matt 7:14, Jude 1:14, Rev 7:3-8] :-

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. [or rather until the 'age of the ages', the end of time]

Revelation 20:15 (NASB)
15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

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the lake of fire is only the final baptism of fire , as Jesus says , all craetion will accept him eventually , all must go through all three baptisms

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Not the same thing. The Lake of Fire will torment forever.

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trial of ones Love by temptation by Satan is certainly a tormenting and a 'fire' but it cannot be 'forever' since time ends ... the 'forever is a mistranslation , now widely recognised as such because an infinity of time cannot even physically exist .... time by its nature is a measure of destruction/decay which thus cannot go on indefinitely in a finite physical universe ... time must end, so there si no 'forever', God is endless, time-less, not inside creation , not inside time because He created it, is 'beyond time' ...

Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

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again the original translates as until the 'ages of the ages' , which is to the END of time, not endlessly ... God allows temptation to trial our Love because that PERFECTS Love , but Jesus and God both guarantee in prophecy that ALL mankind will accept Jesus and thus be saved in finite time albeit we destroy the viability of this earth [soon!] and need another before all men accept their only true God ... if you BELIEVE Jesus now then he says so .... if you do not believe him yet then we have nothing much to discuss here

Again, you are giving false hope. If we die lost we are lost forever.

Nearly every English Bible agrees with 'forever'.

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sadly the mistranslation, although proven many ways now, has not been accepted by many sinners because they believe in tradition of sinners, not in the integrity of scripture and promise of Jesus...

perhaps read a little more about it to find out teh result of Einstein, proven by experiment , and read what Jesus says in scripture , even talk to God if you have stopped sinning so as to receive spirit baptism to knwo all truth you ask of God [John 16:13]

or use common sense, Love canot favour anyone, God will return again and again until His Love bears fruit in all ...in the meantime life for sinners gets worse and worse because the easy prey they preyed upon is taken progressively to God, so God's plan of progressive salvation [NOT all at once , that is very clear in scripture, but not in churches of sinners] is very wise indeed , those FEW who are first are simply the rulers and priests of the next life who run the kingdom come in the new earth ... so tha Jesus saves but the 144,000 siants of this earth, but each of those can save as many agin in the new earth kingdom , whic is a number comparable toall men that ever lived, 20 billion ... countless many saved later and we know they were all destroyed [Matt 7:13] in this earth ... [Rev 7:9-10] Jesus' word on that, not mine...

I am only pointing out taht sinners translated the bible rather badly, all versions... but one can recover the truth by reading it ALL as ONE truth... sinners tell one not to because they actually know their private interpretation doesn't stand up to looking at ALL the scripture as one truth of God ... as it MUST be !

Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

it makes no sense to learn the teachings of sinners in mass religion of sinners, raher raed the scripture and learn taht all one ahs to do is stop sinning and then God will teach you his truth, all of it eventually , as far as you can bear to hear now...

all those under grace are taught by God, not by men - Heb 8:8-12, the new covenant - read it, understand it, from God ...

woden said:

Well I hope this question was answered from the Bible and not from some private interpretation. It's important to realise that heaven was never going to be a place for everyone.

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Whoops, that is a private interpretation easily disproved from scripture , not a good start ...

Right from man's start here on the earth God had in place a purpose so that all of his creation would be happy, and that the pinnacle of his creation, us, would be able to live without end.

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you made that one up yourself too , even the next life ends :-

Isaiah 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Now we know Adam and Eve were seduced by the dark side. If he wasn't where would he have gone? The Bible answers in quite clear terms. Adam and Eve would, if they had stayed faithful, have remained on the earth.
The Bible says so. (See Gen. 1:26, 2:16,17 also Isa.45:18)

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did you not notice Adam was TAKEN to the 'garden of Eden' , which is the paradise of the spirit , of endless being in the spirit , of immortality of the 'tree of life' ... not on earth...

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
...
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

[Note that Jesus reveals that the tree of life is in paradise, so in the third heaven, not on (first) earth]

in case you never noticed , this is the second heaven and earth :-

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Heaven is a place for only ones who God chooses to send there, and for a purpose. We must remember that God will do something only if it fits and fulfills his will and purpose, he doesn't do things any other way.

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so did you never notice paradise is the THIRD heaven , not this heaven ?

So the way to heaven opened up when God finally rejected the Jewish people as a whole as being his covenanted people. They broke the agreement time and time again, leaving God to finally reject them.

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you really missed a MASS of scripture out , so did you never read it all , integrate it into one truth of God?
First off the 'Jews' [House of Judah] are the smaller part of Israel , the House of Israel is far larger and according to Jesus [Rev 7:3-8] contributes about six times as many saints as the Jews ... and the House of Israel were and are idol-worshippers, NEVER accepted Jews, Judaism, the House of Judah but were scattered longe before the Jews and unlike the Jews lost their identity merged with all gentile nations worldwide , but Jesus said he was sent by God to find their descendants living as gentiles amongst the gentiles :-

Deuteronomy 28:64 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

Matthew 15:24 But he [Jesus] answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

so Jesus is indeed the prophesied Christ, Messiah, anointed king of Israel, sent to begin the task of re-uniting the two houses into one nation:-

Ezekiel 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

thus it is absolutely crucial to understand what the Christ is , what his role in fulfilling the promise of God :-

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

because then the new covenant of unconditional unmerited forgiveness [grace] to the descendants of those who broke the old covenant makes sense ( and is so very different from what sinners teach and preach worldwide... but READ IT and SEE - Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:8-12]

note in particular that BOTH houses were rejected, but now their descendants are accepted... this is the part you missed out... but really that is very dishonest , the acceptance of those whose fathers were rejected for breaking the old covenant is what God STATES and this is the TRUE gospel of the new covenant with the children of Israel, they will be the royal priesthood, kings and priests of the kingdom under THEIR new covenant with God ... and God WILL teach them ,spirit baptism to know all truth once the good news causes them to stop sinning [for only past sins are remitted [Rom 3:23-25]

1Pet 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

the House of Israel is the only such nation in scripture who are not a people.... and they are not any of them Jews... all live as gentiles amongst gentiles believing they are gentiles after thousands of years living as gentiles, serving other gods, not the God of the Jews...

The conversion of Cornelius showed that to God all men regardless of nationality can be saved. (See Romans 9:6, 2:28,29) Not only that all men regardless of nationality can enter into one of the two `sheepfolds` which Jesus is the Great Shepherd. (John 10:1-16)

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anyone can indeed join Israel , but few do, and indeed only some 20,000 Jews become saints , which is very few , perhaps some 120,000 paganised descendants of the House of Israel living as gentiles become saints by Jesus return [most dead , perhaps some 2,000 saints alive on average at any one time] - Rev 7:3-8 - so joining Israel is not what makes one a saint, saints are simply those who undergo all three baptisms in life [in this life or the next, or even a third life] :-

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

but most remain sinners all their lives, refusing the conditions of even the first baptism, the 'foundation of God' , death to sin in water baptism :-

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

So the prospect for all who continue to do God's will, and those who put faith in his Son is bright.

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As Jesus said , it is a contract to death... few men are ready to die for the word of God, few even know what it is ... many now do not think it is bright to die for sake of not denying Christ , most religion denies Jesus is the Christ, King of the Jews and House of Israel come to re-unite them...

As many people say, there is nothing wrong with the earth, just the people on it.

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that is a big mistake ,isn't it ... people are blinded by lies of a few men, tempted by Satan to sin, but they will all accept Jesus eventually , Jesus promises that... and your hasty pre-judgment , as with others, is enough to bring judgement down on you ... God doesn't even judge the saints until Jesus returns... who are you to gainsay that ???

Those who refuse to listen to God's word will meet their end, those who willingly obey what God asks of them will be blessed forever, just as Adam would of if he'd remained faithful.

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I don't think you have any idea about Adam, how faithful he was or not... it is clear from scripture that he was INNOCENT until gaining the knowledge of Good and Evil from eating the fruit ... after that we do not know about Adam, how faithful he was after he became guilty of any sin as we are because of his act...

and I have no idea why you would assume Adam could not repent ... still that is a whole discussion in itself perhaps...

what I would say is that there are only tens of thousands [Jude 1:14] who obey God in stopping sinning and perfecting love as saints after He teaches them all truth [John 16:13]... that is indeed FEW {matt 7:14] and the rest destroyed [Matt 7:14], which thus means all mass religions of sinners...
-Rev 13:3-4 -but countess many are later saved [Rev 7:9-10] , so in the new earth at judgement day, judged by their works after death frees them from sin and all flesh is baptised to know all truth [Joel 2:28, John 16:13]

it just shows from straightforward scripture of God that religion has indeed already gone astray ... because it must [2Thess 2]

so it makes no sense your learning from sinners when God says even the saints , all those under grace , will not teach one another ,but God Himself will teach them ALL [Heb 8:8-12 ... the actual new coevnant of God with those whose fathers broke the old covenant, as it says ]

woden said:

Well I hope this question was answered from the Bible and not from some private interpretation.

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I hope that you don't believe dollarsbill when he accuses me of having a private interpretation. I suspect that he is just annoyed because the bible doesn't say what he wants it to say.

Capuano231 said:

I'm a Christian but this has bothered me all my life. If God loves us all and wants us all to go to Heaven and to be saved, and if He is all powerful why did he make Hell? Why did he have to make his son suffer?
Don't get offended by this question. I don't know how else to put it into words. Thanks

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God does desire that whoever loves him, be saved. Romans 8:28-30

God doesn't want ALL of us to go to heaven. Rev 21 & 22.

Hell is a temporary place for sinners/unbelievers, until Rev 20:14-15

He didn't MAKE His Son do anything. Jesus did it because He loved us. John 13:1

stan1953 said:

God does desire that whoever loves him, be saved. Romans 8:28-30

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indeed so... which means stopping sinning, turning to love, and perfecting love in life...

Hell is a temporary place for sinners/unbelievers, until Rev 20:14-15

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exactly ...as Jesus said death is just a 'sleep'

He didn't MAKE His Son do anything. Jesus did it because He loved us. John 13:1

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Jesus indeed chose freely to do what God said , was tempted and chose not to sin

God doesn't want ALL of us to go to heaven. Rev 21 & 22.

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this however is a misunderstanding of scripture

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

this is only a temporary exclusion because everyone accepts Jesus eventually , turns from evil sin to love ...Jesus says so in many ways e.g.

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Jess says they do :-

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

again they are without until they repent , and we know they will accept Jesus eventually and so repent...

strangertoo said:

equally life is obviously not infinite , it ends , so there is no eternal life , not even in the next world, and the bible says so too...

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No eternal life? Is that a Christian doctrine?

strangertoo said:

this however is a misunderstanding of scripture

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

this is only a temporary exclusion because everyone accepts Jesus eventually , turns from evil sin to love ...Jesus says so in many ways e.g.

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Jess says they do :-

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

again they are without until they repent , and we know they will accept Jesus eventually and so repent...

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Revelation has to do with the tribulation, millenia reign of Jesus, and the new heaven and earth. This all happens after His second coming. If you are not saved by the time Jesus returns, you are lost forever.

Rev 21:27, is talking about the same souls in verse 8, the ones that have been consigned to the lake of fire. You have to understand that Revelation repeats events between chapters 19 and 22.

Phil 2:10, is in the same context as the demons who recognized Jesus when He came to cast them out. It doesn't mean that ALL that acknowledge who Jesus is will be saved, otherwise the demons could be saved, because they acknowledge who Jesus is.

Rev 5:13, is referring to believers, or do you think 1 Tim 4:4 refers to sinners as well? The Greek word here is ktisma, which connotes contextually and metaphorically, those who are transformed by divine power to a moral newness of soul, spoken of true Christians created anew by regeneration.(Thayer's)

Rev 22:15, this is part of the epilogue in verse 12-21 and is a reiteration of 21:8 & 27.

Repentance can ONLY happen when we are alive. Once we die physically, we are beyond salvation. 2 Cor 6:2, For he says, “In the time of my favour I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you.” I tell you, now is the time of God’s favour, now is the day of salvation.

It is a lie of the enemy that salvation is possible AFTER death. He is the father of lies. Don't believe it.

stan1953 said:

Repentance can ONLY happen when we are alive. Once we die physically, we are beyond salvation.

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Now that is the Truth!

dollarsbill said:

Now that is the Truth!

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I agree!

strangertoo said:

equally life is obviously not infinite , it ends , so there is no eternal life , not even in the next world, and the bible says so too...

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I'd like you to quote those verses if you can, meanwhile here is ONE verse to show you are wrong.

Rev 21:3-4
“Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

stan1953 said:

I'd like you to quote those verses if you can, meanwhile here is ONE verse to show you are wrong.

Rev 21:3-4
“Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

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I think maybe you just misunderstand and it is likely my fault because of the way of using the words I used , death is never the end of life , translation is the end of [physical] life , always [else life returns in resurrection] :-

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
[Jesus after resurrection to the flesh]

but in translation :-

Genesis 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

thus I am simply saying that life as we know it, physical life , always ends , and the only way it ends at the edn of a creation is by translation to spirit...

now the bible speaks of the living God , but we must understand that the 'life' of the spirit is not like physical life at all , God does not change at all , and cannot end , our spirit is of God and so cannot end at all, cannot change... our physical life is based completely upon change , we live only by destroying other life that feeds almost exclusively off sunlight ultimately, all degraded to heat... our life is just slow death by change ,but the spirit is not subject to change or destruction , it is different, separate, holy...

so I understand very much the endlessness of God , which we call 'life' because it is endless existence , more existence than we have in physical life ... all I am saying is that it is utterly different than physical life

so in scripture we have to distinguish endless 'life' of the spirit from physical life that many believe ends in death , but which cannot end in death because of our endless spirit from God, which thus only ends in translation [and can begin again in a new creation from the spirit, because the spirit creates endlessly that which ends]

these are not he same kind of 'life' , we really need a different word than 'life' for what the spirit has, endless existence, endless creativeness f that which is utterly different from itself ...

so all I was trying to express is that physical life ends in translation, not death, but even that isn't the whole story for life begins again from the spirit is each new creation [by resurrection and manifestation ]

so my apologies for not expressing the point more clearly before, but it is crucial you see to understanding scripture that one sees that the words 'aionios' [Greek] and 'olam'{Hebrew] always refer to an aeon, an age, never to endlessness and have been sadly mistranslated because of religious bias of the translators, the bible never having been translated by saints...only by sinners who thus do not know the truth [John 16:13] because of their sin...

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God

I hope then that I have clarified what i was trying to say, I am in no way denying the endlessness of God, of the spirit ,of the spirit of man created in God's image which is spirit , but only saying the physical life is always interrupted [in death, translation, and between creations] so one cannot speak meaningfully of 'eternal physical life'

one cannot project physical life onto the creator because the 'life' of God si life of the spirit, involving no change, no time, no space because these are only in the creation

it brings a whole new deeper meaning to :-

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. [perfect for a man is the spirit, perfect in physical life is simply determined by what God will accept , what He will ignore (past sin once one stops)]

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image [which is spirit]

Originally Posted by stan1953

Repentance can ONLY happen when we are alive. Once we die physically, we are beyond salvation.
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dollarsbill said:

Now that is the Truth!

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I already showed the very easy biblical proof that MOST people are saved after death , so why do you support this unbiblical common myth taught by sinners without even attempting any scriptural support for your assertion ???

FEW find the way in this life and the MANY are destroyed -Matt 7:13-14

Jude 1:14 confirms Enoch's statement that Jesus takes only tens of thousands of saints from this earth out of over 12 billion that ever lived

that is FEW indeed saved now

Jesus himself states that COUNTLESS MANY are saved afterward -Rev 7:9-10


so how on earth do you ignore this ???

dollarsbill said:

No eternal life? Is that a Christian doctrine?

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what I was attempting to explain is that there is no endless physical life ...
not that the spirit is not endless

the problem is in using word about physicality , in this case 'life' , which simply do not apply literally to the spirit...

physical life is continual change , destroying life in one's food for instance, but the spirit is not even subject to change, so to talk about the 'life' of God is likely to mislead if one does not treat it as a metaphor...

strangertoo said:

what I was attempting to explain is that there is no endless physical life ...
not that the spirit is not endless

the problem is in using word about physicality , in this case 'life' , which simply do not apply literally to the spirit...

physical life is continual change , destroying life in one's food for instance, but the spirit is not even subject to change, so to talk about the 'life' of God is likely to mislead if one does not treat it as a metaphor...

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God's intention, from creation, was that we were to live (physically) for eternity.
Tree of Life was for that reason. Jesus was also the way for us to live (physically) eternally. Rev 21 and 22 shows that. Our tripartite nature is NOT a metaphor...it is reality.

... simple assertions are little use here ... for purpose of discussion you have to explain why you believe my quoting from the very scripture you quote doesn't convince you your
belief comes from another source than the scripture ... so please read what I wrote and be specific instead of waving hands in the air and saying it's in Rev 21 and 22, cos' I showed it isn't ...

Would we want to all live in the same place with those who's natures are to kill, rape and steal?

"Therefore I say to you, be sober. Do not go astray. And many times I have said to you all together - and also to you alone, James, I have said - 'Be saved!' And I have commanded you to follow me, and I have taught you the response in the presence of the rulers. Observe that I have descended, and I have spoken, and I have troubled myself, and I have received my crown, when I saved you. For I have descended to dwell with you in order that you also may dwell with me. And when I found that your houses had no ceilings over them, I dwelt in houses which would be able to receive me when I descended.
"Therefore, obey me, my brothers. Understand what the great light is. The Father does not need me. For a father does not need a son, but it is the son who needs the father. To him I am going, for the Father of the Son is not in need of you.
"Pay attention to the Word. Understand Knowledge. Love Life. And no one will persecute you, nor will any one oppress you, other than you yourselves.
"O you wretched! O you unfortunates! O you dissemblers of the truth! O you falsifiers of knowledge! O you sinners against the spirit! Do you even now dare to listen, when it behooved you to speak from the beginning? Do you even now dare to sleep, when it behooved you to be awake from the beginning, in order that the Kingdom of Heaven might receive you? In truth I say to you, it is easier for a holy one to sink into defilement, and for a man of light to sink into darkness, than for you to reign - or even not to reign!

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~Secret James

Soulgazer said:

Would we want to all live in the same place with those who's natures are to kill, rape and steal?

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... we do all live in the same place with those who's natures are to kill, rape and steal and a few hate it enough to do the work of love set out by Jesus [Matt 7:14, Jude 1:14] ... the many however are gonna die sinners , that is almost all men destroyed for sin [Matt 7:13]

... it only a matter of God persuading men to love , then folks realise it is a better way of life, a progressive thing as described in scripture, the FEW first ,countless amny later at judgement day [Rev 7:9-10] , then the rest through the final baptism of fire in the lake of fire..

so love is patient and fortunately for sinners who preach that God's mercy ends, it doesn't, it endures for al time, as scripture states [over a hundred times] and as Jesus says, all will accept him in the end ...

strangertoo said:

... we do all live in the same place with those who's natures are to kill, rape and steal and a few hate it enough to do the work of love set out by Jesus [Matt 7:14, Jude 1:14] ... the many however are gonna die sinners , that is almost all men destroyed for sin [Matt 7:13]

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No argument there! Everybody wants to follow Jesus when He was overturning tables. Sell everything and give it to the poor? NO, He didn't really mean it!

... it only a matter of God persuading men to love , then folks realise it is a better way of life, a progressive thing as described in scripture, the FEW first ,countless amny later at judgement day [Rev 7:9-10] , then the rest through the final baptism of fire in the lake of fire..

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I don't know. I've met men that I could baptize every fifteen minutes, and it wouldn't do a lick of good unless I held them under. (Not that I am allowed to judge). I think people are always going to revert to their nature. Some will grab on to Jesus and proclaim they are saved, and worse, truly believe it. But if the nature does not change, there is nothing there.

so love is patient and fortunately for sinners who preach that God's mercy ends, it doesn't, it endures for al time, as scripture states [over a hundred times] and as Jesus says, all will accept him in the end ...

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Yeah, I think you get it. If one has the nature of Christ, then one will love even a Samaritan well enough to hold up as a good example.