Why Buddhism Is True (by Robert Wright)

[Rajni]

I agree that Dharmic paths seem to more readily mesh with testable reality than Abrahamic paths do.

 

[Silmarien]

It feels like Buddhism and Christianity occupy different spaces entirely. When I read the writings of Buddhists it seems like they are talking about a whole different set of ideas that, while not necessarily contradictory to Christian theology, are simply ideas which Christians don't bother to discuss.

Sure, they do. There are medieval theories of cognition that you can find in scholastic writings, and the idea that our minds produce conceptual representations is really not that alien to Western thought.

From a Buddhist perspective, the goal is then to recognize this illusion and train our minds to no longer desire these illusory and temporary things in life. Instead, the goal is to seek the real, timeless and unchanging parts of the universe.

This doesn't sound very Buddhist to me. If one is seeking "real, timeless, and unchanging parts of the universe," then one is still grasping for the unattainable. This seems to be the Buddhist criticism of every form of theism, Eastern and Western. (I think it's in error, but that's beside the point. Or perhaps it is the point, if we're trying to decide whether or not Buddhism is true.)

 

[dlamberth]

Sure, they do. There are medieval theories of cognition that you can find in scholastic writings, and the idea that our minds produce conceptual representations is really not that alien to Western thought.

Not only in medieval thought, mostly coming from the Mystics of that era, but its also true in Modern thought, also coming from the Mystics of our time.

This doesn't sound very Buddhist to me. If one is seeking "real, timeless, and unchanging parts of the universe," then one is still grasping for the unattainable. This seems to be the Buddhist criticism of every form of theism, Eastern and Western. (I think it's in error, but that's beside the point. Or perhaps it is the point, if we're trying to decide whether or not Buddhism is true.)

It didn't sound very Buddhist to me either. And yes, it IS the point.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I'm sorry, but this is all just untrue.

What makes Christianity totally different from all other religions is that it is not about self improvement. It is about the Living God who sent His only Son to die and take our sins upon Himself on the cross of Calvary. No other religion does that.

Every other religion involves some type of self improvement through different stages giving the principle that man can solve his own spiritual problems. No other religion causes a complete transformation in a person to change them totally into another person. We call this Christian conversion.

No other religion has their gods talking with and having personal fellowship with their worshipers, or being in the god's own family, as Christianity having the Living God as our Father and His Son as our brother. Other religions have their gods high above their worshipers with no personal contact, while the Christian believer is seated at the right hand of God, blessed with every spiritual blessing that God can give. This is given to the Christian believer as a gift, while in other religions one has to work their way up through different stages and reincarnations to get to that same point, which they never do.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I've never found Buddhism and Christ as opposed to each other. In fact, I find them complementary. I have no problem putting my trust into each. I learn from both, my spiritual attitude is fed by both, I respect both trajectories and I've become a better Human Being as a result.

They are opposed to each other, because Buddhism seeks to find the answers through Humanistic principles and guides the believer through different stages of existence to reach the ultimate state of being.

Christianity gives the whole lot at one as a gift through conversion to Christ. They are blessed with every spiritual blessing right from the start, made totally new creations, and seated with God at the right side of His throne. The Christian does not have to work his way to the top through different stages of being. He is already there!

If Buddhism tells us that it has the way to the ultimate in being, and Christ tells us the only way to God is through Him, then they must be opposed to each other, because Christ says that there is no other way, and yet Buddhism says that there is another way. Who is telling the truth. One person says one thing and another says the opposite. How can they be in agreement?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Where your seeing darkness, I'm seeing Light. I'll follow the Light. And as I mentioned, I'm a better Human Being as a result. That's what matters to me...becoming a more human, Human Being. I'm not at all about after death beliefs. But I am about becoming a better Human Being.

Satan can transform himself into an angel of light. So the light you may be seeing is not the light you think it is.

Also, Christianity does not involve being a better human being. It involves coming into a close and personal fellowship with the Living God, who transforms the person into a new creature immediately he or she receives Christ as Saviour.

Buddhism involves the person slowly developing into a better human being.

Christianity involves being recreated into a totally new species of person transformed in an instant of time upon conversion to Christ.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

In regards to Buddhism, what your saying is counter to any of my experiences. And that's what I have to draw upon.

I agree. All you have is your human state, ruled by your five senses. So all your experiences come from them. Christians call that "living in the flesh". The problem with that is that the "flesh" (our natural human bodies and minds) are mortal and will die one day. So, all the effort of trying to be a better human being will be in vain and will come to nothing at death. And no one comes back from death.

But converted Christians have something else that natural human beings do not have. This does not die with them when their natural bodies die. If you don't have it, it's understandable that it is not part of your experience.

Only converted Christians actually understand it, because it is spiritually discerned by those who have been transformed into new creatures by the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[dlamberth]

I agree. All you have is your human state, ruled by your five senses. So all your experiences come from them. Christians call that "living in the flesh". The problem with that is that the "flesh" (our natural human bodies and minds) are mortal and will die one day. So, all the effort of trying to be a better human being will be in vain and will come to nothing at death. And no one comes back from death.

With all due respect, your not even a little bit addressing my spiritual life in God. Maybe...just perhaps it might be a grand idea to actually find out something about another persons life in God before making those kinds of judgments.

But converted Christians have something else that natural human beings do not have. This does not die with them when their natural bodies die. If you don't have it, it's understandable that it is not part of your experience.

There's belief in these things, and than there's having God as one's reality in life. What happens upon my death I've given to God because when I look at it, it's a belief. Where that leaves me is that I tend towards the reality of God as my reality TODAY where He is needed the most. The rest is up to my Beloved God.

Only converted Christians actually understand it, because it is spiritually discerned by those who have been transformed into new creatures by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Something I've always found interesting is how those of other spiritual trajectories live in the grace and blessings of God with just as much vigor and life as do any Christian that I've ever met.

 

[dlamberth]

Satan can transform himself into an angel of light. So the light you may be seeing is not the light you think it is.

I'll go for the light. Thanks.

Also, Christianity does not involve being a better human being.

I agree that "Christianity" seems to not be about being a better Human Being. A quick look at it's history demonstrates that in spades. But, Jesus spent most of His ministery teaching us how to be a more human, Human Being.

It involves coming into a close and personal fellowship with the Living God, who transforms the person into a new creature immediately he or she receives Christ as Saviour.

Isn't being Christ like being a more human, Human Being?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

With all due respect, your not even a little bit addressing my spiritual life in God. Maybe...just perhaps it might be a grand idea to actually find out something about another persons life in God before making those kinds of judgments.


There's belief in these things, and than there's having God as one's reality in life. What happens upon my death I've given to God because when I look at it, it's a belief. Where that leaves me is that I tend towards the reality of God as my reality TODAY where He is needed the most. The rest is up to my Beloved God.


Something I've always found interesting is how those of other spiritual trajectories live in the grace and blessings of God with just as much vigor and life as do any Christian that I've ever met.

I'm not saying that what you have is not your reality. I am not judging your experience because it is real to you and you sincerely believe it.

All I am doing is making the comparison between the natural human experience contained in Buddhism and the spiritual experience of Christianity. The two are totally different from each other.

What we need to do is to continue kicking the ball and not each other in our discussion.

 

[dlamberth]

Only converted Christians actually understand it, because it is spiritually discerned by those who have been transformed into new creatures by the power of the Holy Spirit.

I tend to look at the state of believers to discern the truth of spiritual teachings. For those who do live in God, it's not all that hard to see those who do. Those people become more loving, compassionate and willing to serve those in need. There's a general attitude about them that's different, one that forgiving and willing to be open to the heart needs of others. And what's so wonderful it that it's something that a person can find in people of all sorts of spiritual traditions.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I tend to look at the state of believers to discern the truth of spiritual teachings. For those who do live in God, it's not all that hard to see those who do. Those people become more loving, compassionate and willing to serve those in need. There's a general attitude about them that's different, one that forgiving and willing to be open to the heart needs of others. And what's so wonderful it that it's something that a person can find in people of all sorts of spiritual traditions.

There is no doubt that people who are Buddhists and similar can be very loving, compassionate and willing to serve those in need. A group of fellow workers went and visited a Hindu temple and were treated with much hospitality and given a great meal. Buddhist communities are well know for feeding the poor who come to them. If more Christian churches did the same, they would better represent Christ than they do at present.

So it is quite true that those in the alternative religions can be better human beings than many Christians, but that is not the point of Christian faith. Christian faith recognises that no matter how good a human being can be in this life, it is not enough to satisfy the standards of the Living God. To satisfy those standards, there needs to be a complete transformation of the heart and spirit of the person and that only be accomplished only by the power of the Living God and it cannot be earned. It has to be bestowed as a gift.
This is why there is a verse in the Bible that says:
"By grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, but it is the gift of God."

That is the good news of Christianity which makes it unique, totally different from every other world religion.

 

[dlamberth]

I'm not saying that what you have is not your reality. I am not judging your experience because it is real to you and you sincerely believe it.

All I am doing is making the comparison between the natural human experience contained in Buddhism and the spiritual experience of Christianity. The two are totally different from each other.

What we need to do is to continue kicking the ball and not each other in our discussion.

It appears to me that your talking about a Buddhism that is not what I'd recognize . Though they are different in their form, if you take a look at some of the Christian mystics, you'll see some of the same approaches that you'll find in Buddhism. And I'd argue that if a person truly desires God as their absolute reality in life that a bit of Buddhist practices would be very helpful towards that end. But I do understand that an exploration of "natural human experience" would be needed for a better understanding. Especially when it comes to the supernatural.

 

[Lost4words]

One of my best friends is a Buddhist, from birth, and she is such a kind, caring, loving person. She always cares deeply fof her children, family, friends etc. Also, she loves 'our' God tremendously too.

 

[Rajni]

What makes Christianity totally different from all other religions is that it is not about self improvement. It is about the Living God who sent His only Son to die and take our sins upon Himself on the cross of Calvary. No other religion does that.

Perhaps because other religions perceive of God designing things in a way that makes such a sacrifice unnecessary.

 

[ItIsFinished!]

One of my best friends is a Buddhist, from birth, and she is such a kind, caring, loving person. She always cares deeply fof her children, family, friends etc. Also, she loves 'our' God tremendously too.

So she is a Buddhist that loves God?
Not a Christian?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

It appears to me that your talking about a Buddhism that is not what I'd recognize . Though they are different in their form, if you take a look at some of the Christian mystics, you'll see some of the same approaches that you'll find in Buddhism. And I'd argue that if a person truly desires God as their absolute reality in life that a bit of Buddhist practices would be very helpful towards that end. But I do understand that an exploration of "natural human experience" would be needed for a better understanding. Especially when it comes to the supernatural.

I understand that Christian mysticism can be quite similar to the mysticism of other religions, but that doesn't mean that the Christian mystics are right and the others are wrong. Perhaps both are limited to the human sphere and having nothing to do with the work of God's Holy Spirit.

 

[dlamberth]

"By grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, but it is the gift of God."

That is a good news of Christianity which makes it unique, totally different from every other world religion.

I disagree. That message is not unique to Christianity. It's pretty common among the Lovers of God through out the world that come from the varies spiritual traditions. That really comes to light if a person were to read the spiritual journey of some of those people.

But the Good News that I think Jesus was teaching, is that God is a reality right now! Period! And in that Good News he taught us how to make that happen. Jesus talked about Prayer. He talked about Love. He talked about Compassion. He even said in His first public discourse that he came to Serve and than became an example of Service to those in need. All of these things if they were actually taken to Heart would create a much different world than what we have today.

 

[dlamberth]

I understand that Christian mysticism can be quite similar to the mysticism of other religions, but that doesn't mean that the Christian mystics are right and the others are wrong. Perhaps both are limited to the human sphere and having nothing to do with the work of God's Holy Spirit.

I lean towards those who have God as there reality in life. And that tends to be the Mystic types.

 

[Lost4words]

So she is a Buddhist that loves God?
Not a Christian?

No, not a Christian.

She married a Catholic. She is from Thailand and a very strong Buddhist but, she also believes in God and loves Him and prays to him.