Why bad things happen:

[Strong in Him]

Why is it that people have such a difficult time comprehending the Will of God?! Every time I read a post that describes God's Will being anything other than perfection, my jaw just sort of drops and I really don't know where to begin.

So the cross which involved pain, torture, mockery, loneliness, rejection, was not God's will?

 

[FrankFaith]

So the cross which involved pain, torture, mockery, loneliness, rejection, was not God's will?

Now you've completely got it.

*What you've just described was God's supreme Love for us after giving us a free will to choose death and wind up in hell as a consequence--and then He even gave His OWN life (Jesus and the Father are one) for us at that point to save us from ourselves!

What an awesome Father worthy of all Praise and Glory!!!

** "God's Will" is that we walk with Him in the garden.

 

[lovesblessing]

Amen! That is the truth of the Gospel of God's Grace........



By the way, God is only sovereign outside of His covenants......inside of His covenants, He is bound by their boundaries! If you are outside of a covenant with God, you are on your own!


lovesblessing

Now you've completely got it.

*What you've just described was God's supreme Love for us after giving us a free will to choose death and wind up in hell as a consequence--and then He even gave His OWN life (Jesus and the Father are one) for us at that point to save us from ourselves!

What an awesome Father worthy of all Praise and Glory!!!

** "God's Will" is that we walk with Him in the garden.

 

[Strong in Him]

Now you've completely got it.

I might have completely got what you are saying, that doesn't mean it's the truth. This is not taught in Scripture at all. If the cross was not God's will, how could Jesus have saved people from their sins and taken away the sin of the world? The angel told Mary right from the beginning that Jesus would save people from their sins. How could his death have been prophesied by Isaiah and others? Jesus said that he would be lifted up just as the bronze serpent was lifted up in the wilderness - even Moses spoke of it. Peter says that we are redeemed by the precious blood of the lamb who was chosen from the foundation of the world. Why did Jesus predict his death and say that he, the Good Shepherd, was going to lay down his life for the sheep? He also said that he lay it down of his own free will and had the authority to do so. Why did he say that he came to give his life as a ransom for many, or pray "shall I say 'Father save me from this hour?' No, it was for this reason I came." (John 12v27) Why does Paul say that God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself? How could Christ have been our Passover lamb, and we be saved by his blood?

If God didn't know about the cross and it wasn't his will, what was it - some sort of mistake? That God actually wanted Jesus to achieve something different, but when people like Judas failed to co operate he thought "well I really don't want them to kill my Son but it seems to be happening, so I'd better resort to plan B and see if I can salvage anything from this mess"?

This sounds very much like Moonie teaching to me - they tell everyone that God's plan was not for Jesus to die but to get married, and that he failed because he got himself crucified instead. That God had to somehow think how he was going to use Jesus' death on the cross for good, because his will had been for something else completely.

 

[FrankFaith]

I might have completely got what you are saying, that doesn't mean it's the truth. This is not taught in Scripture at all. If the cross was not God's will, how could Jesus have saved people from their sins and taken away the sin of the world? The angel told Mary right from the beginning that Jesus would save people from their sins. How could his death have been prophesied by Isaiah and others? Jesus said that he would be lifted up just as the bronze serpent was lifted up in the wilderness - even Moses spoke of it. Peter says that we are redeemed by the precious blood of the lamb who was chosen from the foundation of the world. Why did Jesus predict his death and say that he, the Good Shepherd, was going to lay down his life for the sheep? He also said that he lay it down of his own free will and had the authority to do so. Why did he say that he came to give his life as a ransom for many, or pray "shall I say 'Father save me from this hour?' No, it was for this reason I came." (John 12v27) Why does Paul say that God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself? How could Christ have been our Passover lamb, and we be saved by his blood?

If God didn't know about the cross and it wasn't his will, what was it - some sort of mistake? That God actually wanted Jesus to achieve something different, but when people like Judas failed to co operate he thought "well I really don't want them to kill my Son but it seems to be happening, so I'd better resort to plan B and see if I can salvage anything from this mess"?

This sounds very much like Moonie teaching to me - they tell everyone that God's plan was not for Jesus to die but to get married, and that he failed because he got himself crucified instead. That God had to somehow think how he was going to use Jesus' death on the cross for good, because his will had been for something else completely.

Nevermind. Forget I even said anything.

 

[Strong in Him]

Nevermind. Forget I even said anything.

If you truly believe that the cross was not God's will but some kind of mistake and can't answer my questions, then I might as well.

 

[FrankFaith]

If you truly believe that the cross was not God's will but some kind of mistake and can't answer my questions, then I might as well.

Actually, I think that you just have not received revelation of this yet. I have more than answered all of your questions a number of times. Please re-read my posts if you think I haven't.

Shalom

 

[Strong in Him]

Actually, I think that you just have not received revelation of this yet. I have more than answered all of your questions a number of times. Please re-read my posts if you think I haven't.

Sorry, but if you're saying that Scripture is wrong and you've received some other revelation that supercedes it, then I don't want it. God does not contradict his word.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Sorry, but if you're saying that Scripture is wrong and you've received some other revelation that supercedes it, then I don't want it. God does not contradict his word.

That's the key. If we get revelation that is outside the Bible, then there is a problem. You either believe in the Word of God or you believe in your Revelation. I will stick with the Bible and God's Word.

 

[TreeOfLife]

So the cross which involved pain, torture, mockery, loneliness, rejection, was not God's will?

If these things (and more) were paid for on the cross, why would anyone still pick them up and name it and claim it for themselves?

 

[FrankFaith]

Sorry, but if you're saying that Scripture is wrong and you've received some other revelation that supercedes it, then I don't want it. God does not contradict his word.

That's the key. If we get revelation that is outside the Bible, then there is a problem. You either believe in the Word of God or you believe in your Revelation. I will stick with the Bible and God's Word.

Wow. Now you are outright lieing. I'd sure hate to be in your shoes when Daddy gets home.

I'm done. What you two have just said has just about turned my stomach.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Wow. Now you are outright lieing. I'd sure hate to be in your shoes when Daddy gets home.

I'm done. What you two have just said has just about turned my stomach.

Yep I know how you feel when we see something that is heresy.

 

[Strong in Him]

I'm lying when I say that God does not contradict his word??? Maybe we should start a poll - how many other Christians here believe it's ok for someone to have a revelation that contradicts the bible?