Why are you here?

[morningstar2651]

7He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." Acts 1:7-8

1When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them. Acts 2:1-4

So I'll get indwelt on a windy pentecost by sitting around the house?

 

[Zaac]

So I'll get indwelt on a windy pentecost by sitting around the house?

Ya gotta trust in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and repent of your sins. Then we'll find a nice windy pentecost for ya to get indwelt on .

 

[morningstar2651]

Let me get this straight...I can't understand the Bible unless I'm indwelt...yet I must believe the Bible in order to become indwelt.

Therefore, I must believe something before understanding it? That doesn't sound like a good plan to me.

 

[b&wpac4]

Zaac, how do you know that your interpretation of scripture is the correct one if other people read it and come to different conclusions? Other Christians, I mean, not just other people. There are how many denominations and somehow YOU have found the correct one? How can you be so sure?

 

[CreedIsChrist]

I'm here because I know the likes of you are here. I learned some time back - and am still in the process of learning - that the religion you preach is not the truth that will set one free. On the contrary, Fundamentalist Christianity is the yoke that Christ came to free us from.

No, Christ freed us from the yoke of sin and its consequences, as well as the impossibility of following the whole Law..

What YOU preach is the justification of sin. What you preach was predicted in 2 Timothy 4:3. Which Christ was against. You preach the things that Christ came to sacrifice himself for and make us clean from.

If anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a large millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea. "Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes - Matthew 18:7


"Watch yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him - Luke 17:3

But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons - 1 Timothy 4:1

Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts - 2 Peter 3:3


that they were saying to you, "In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts - Jude 1:18

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires - 2 Timothy 4:3





and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching - 1 Timothy 1:10



How prophetic....

 

[b&wpac4]

and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching - 1 Timothy 1:10



How prophetic....

That's funny... I looked up this verse and it says:

for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine

 

[KCKID]

That's funny... I looked up this verse and it says:

They just don't catch on. They've been told scores of times that the word 'homosexual' does NOT appear in the original manuscripts of the Bible. But still they persist ...

 

[b&wpac4]

They just don't catch on. They've been told scores of times that the word 'homosexual' does NOT appear in the original manuscripts of the Bible. But still they persist ...

What is odd is that pervert covers a wide range of activity, yet they don't want to use it. Is there some fear that the actions they do might fall under that wide range and they would rather not see themselves in it?

 

[PantsMcFist]

Zaac, you have responded in length to everyone here but me. Why won't you address my post? To paraphrase:

The disciples convinced Greek sophists of God's truth through logical debate, without an appeal to scriptures which you rely on. You are unable to draw on universal logic to explain the truth to anyone, or unwilling to. You only appeal to knowledge that exists beyond common understanding and mock logical lines of question.

 

[Sojourner1]

Let me get this straight...I can't understand the Bible unless I'm indwelt...yet I must believe the Bible in order to become indwelt.

Therefore, I must believe something before understanding it? That doesn't sound like a good plan to me.

The first thing you have to do is have faith, not believe in the Bible. You have faith in God. You have faith in what the Bible says about His Son and about what His Son did for you. After you come to Christ in faith, then you are given the gift of the Holy Spirit who indwells you. The Holy Spirit then reveals the Scriptures to you as you study the Bible. Faith first, and then understanding second.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

They just don't catch on. They've been told scores of times that the word 'homosexual' does NOT appear in the original manuscripts of the Bible. But still they persist ...

yes it does appear in the bible

arsenokoites - men who bed with other men

THe word is both used in Romans 1 and the Septuagint in Leviticus where is specifically condemns homosexuality.

 

[b&wpac4]

yes it does appear in the bible

arsenokoites - men who bed with other men

THe word is both used in Romans 1 and the Septuagint in Leviticus where is specifically condemns homosexuality.

I would prefer to know what Leviticus says in Hebrew, to be honest.

 

[PantsMcFist]

yes it does appear in the bible

arsenokoites - men who bed with other men

THe word is both used in Romans 1 and the Septuagint in Leviticus where is specifically condemns homosexuality.

Now you're just missing the cultural context. There was no homosexuality as we know it now. Every man married and had children. Many men engaged in sexual acts with men as a gesture of domination of other men. It was a statement of status and prestige. The violent domination of other human beings is what's being expressly forbidden.

 

[tcampen]

Zaac, how do you know that your interpretation of scripture is the correct one if other people read it and come to different conclusions? Other Christians, I mean, not just other people. There are how many denominations and somehow YOU have found the correct one? How can you be so sure?

I've asked Zaac this very same question, and he refuses to substantrly respond to it. You might get something to the effect of "It's God's word, not mine" and such, but the HOW and WHY question is just evaded. Just when I asked him whether he followed the protestant bible or catholic bible (which has 7 more books in it) as God's Completed Word, and WHY, we get nothing.

If you try to scratch below the surface for any actual justification for his assertions, you get nothing. That's why I'm starting to suspect it's just trolling.

 

[Wyzaard]

No, Christ freed us from the yoke of sin and its consequences, as well as the impossibility of following the whole Law..

Funny how the same being who deliberately created all these problems is offering us this 'solution' with the expectation that we should be grateful.

 

[Beanieboy]

Confused people usually do see the "spirit" in their wrong doing.

I fully agree.

Gosh, why would I want to know a spirit that is not of God?

I don't know. Why would you?

If a majority of people look at you, and ask it, not rhetorically, but ask, what God is it that you serve that would call you personally to spend most of your time and words simply saying who is and isn't Christian, you want to know that Spirit because it allows you to justify exalting yourself, and condemning others. It allows you to call hatred love, and with its blessing. It allows you to be meanspirited, and think you are doing God's work. It allows you to think yourself holy, like a Pharisee, and not like that taxcollecter over there!.

I don't know. Because you enjoy being angry? Because you can take out your aggression, and pretend that's what God wants? You can feel superior, act in selfishness, and claim that it is holy?

Only, it's bitter fruit. Do you enjoy serving that Spirit?

I can't know your heart, but I also can't understand someone who doesn't want to live in a world where people are drawn to them from the love that they eminate, who make themselves missed because of all of the good they have left behind, the kindness they have shared, the patience they have given freely, and are judged not on how much they have loved, but how much they are loved by others, which clearly demonstrates how much they have loved.

But some people choose to be the bully. I'm not sure why one wants to be that person, but they do. Some people choose to be spiritual bullies, like the Pharisees, who even condemned the very God they claimed to worship in the Temple, even in their midst.

As a Christian, I never thought much about those stories, just that they were Jesus' enemies. Stepping away from the church a bit, I understand them very well. They are very applicable to today's church.

Mattew 3, John the Baptist speaking:

7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

Speaking against the Pharisees, those who sat in honor in the Temple:
6I tell you that one[a] greater than the temple is here. 7If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent. 8For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."

9Going on from that place, he went into their synagogue, 10and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, they asked him, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?"

11He said to them, "If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? 12How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath."

and again

24But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub,[d] the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."

25Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

29"Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house.

30"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. 31And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

33"Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. 34You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. 35The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."

annnnnnnnnd again....

Matthew 23

1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5"Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them 'Rabbi.'

(Beanie: Why I don't want to "follow you" or your version of "God"):
15"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

23"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

I am following God's words in listening to these, and seeing them in you.
You are not angry with me, but with God.

So you leave the "religion" aspect of Christianity and run to the false teachings of Buddhism?

What teachings of Buddhism are false? Having pure thoughts, words, and deads? Living in loving kindness? Not being attached to material things, like wealth, brand labels that denote wealth, status in the eyes of men?

I focus on both. Yall just focus so much on what yall think love is that you don't recognize that love demands obedience.

I believe that is what you think, but when it is clear that God is trying to tell you something by Christian and non alike that something isn't gelling, then you may want to contemplate that, and at least, the VERY least, talk to God about it. Ask for discern me. If we are all wrong, you will hear nothing in your heart. If you are, I will simply be happy for you for understanding it, will not shove it your face, but thank God, thank the Spirit, thank you for listening, and thank you for joining the rest of us in working together in love physically, and on the spiritual plane.

It saddens me when folks try to use love as an excuse to ignore what God commands.

And it saddens me when people ignore God's love.

Your first part was right. You haven't been judged. You just take personal ownership of your choices and therefore take any judgment of said choices as personal condemnation.

Perhaps, but I then remember that it is not you at Judgement, so, we're good.

Look at you judging there like a pro. Why on earth would I judge who is/is not a Christian? If you haven't noticed, I can very easily ask that question.

You have provoked it. You cannot judge someone, then cry when they judge you in response. I explained why I came here, and you were judgmental to me, whether you will admit it or not. You have judged everyone, had the audacity to claim to know whether someone is Christian or not by your criteria. You claimed that I either am, or never was, when you have never met me.

And guess what? It won't be "yall" on the throne at Judgment Day, so back off.

I don't have to have anyone agree with me. I've been in many places where I have been the only Christian and the only one speaking God's truth. So why would I be surprised if hardly anyone in a nonChristian section of the board agrees with what they are being told?

Well, I suppose that if almost no one agrees with you, the only way that you can maintain the idea that you are right is to believe that you alone hold the truth, and listen to no one.

How's that working out for ya?

I don't have a problem with being judged. Mercy and love are extended all the time. There just is no need to extend mercy about folks rejecting what God's word says.

I say what I say because the God in me doesn't like to see you behaving this way for you, nor portraying God as a reflection of yourself. Take it or leave it. I throw the pearls. You have to make the necklace.

Hey like I said. I'm a modern day prophet. I deliver God's truth and it does not allow room for compromise, Christian or not.

A false prophet, which may be even fooling yourself. Again, take it to God in serious, honest prayer, and your heart will weigh upon you. Offer up God a prayer of silence, listening for once, instead of speaking. Ask, and sit in silence for the response. It will come, soft, like a thought, but it will be something that you will know is true, and you will know that it is not your thought.

So you're right in one aspect. I don't listen...to explanations of false

Well, we agree on something

continued

 

[Beanieboy]

See unlike yourself, I'm just bold enough to let you know that I do. You can't serve another god and think that I as a Christian am gonna receive spiritual advice from you.

No, you can't. Why do think I take the time to type out this much? It isn't for my benefit. To be honest, I feel like one of the 99 that wants to say, "sheesh. Just let the wolves get him...", but I can't. I honestly can't. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about, or have experience that feeling of frustration when you just want to throw in the towel, give up on someone, but God doesn't, never does, and that part of me is what I allow to guide my life. It teaches me something - humility, mostly.

And present me with any of the above and I'll immediately tell youWHO is speaking and whether it should be received.

There's not much that an atheist can tell a Christian about God.

I've seen atheists who understand God far more than some self-proclaimed Christians.
Haven't you read the Bible?

Luke 7
The centurian has more faith than Israel, who believes in God:
6Now Jesus started on His way with them; and when He was not far from the house, the centurion sent friends, saying to Him, "Lord, do not trouble Yourself further, for I am not worthy for You to come under my roof;

7for this reason I did not even consider myself worthy to come to You, but just say the word, and my servant will be healed.

8"For I also am a man placed under authority, with soldiers under me; and I say to this one, 'Go!' and he goes, and to another, 'Come!' and he comes, and to my slave, 'Do this!' and he does it."

9Now when Jesus heard this, He marveled at him, and turned and said to the crowd that was following Him, "I say to you, (D)not even in Israel have I found such great faith."
*********

Luke 7
The Prostitute shows more love than the Pharisee, who taught the law:

36Now one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, so he went to the Pharisee's house and reclined at the table. 37When a woman who had lived a sinful life in that town learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee's house, she brought an alabaster jar of perfume, 38and as she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them.
39When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, "If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is—that she is a sinner."

40Jesus answered him, "Simon, I have something to tell you."
"Tell me, teacher," he said.

41"Two men owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii,[d] and the other fifty. 42Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he canceled the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?"

43Simon replied, "I suppose the one who had the bigger debt canceled."
"You have judged correctly," Jesus said.

44Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. 46You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. 47Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little."

48Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

49The other guests began to say among themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?"

50Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

You go on and live and love in peace. I'm gonna loe and continue to fight a war.

I know. And we can either fight on the same side, or on opposite sides, but I will not allow you to defame the name of God. Until my last breath, I will call you on it, and defend God.

when someone says that which is in agreement with God's word, I hear it. Yall just don't like what's said by the people I have agreed with.

The Pharisees argued with Jesus himself, yet, thought themselves the authority of the Scripture. Ironic, huh?

It only bothers me in that you've trusted in a god that ain't god.

Then you have nothing to worry about, because your God is bigger, stronger...or you will find that the God you thought you were working for is below, and not above, that you may have been working, knowingly, or unknowingly, against the God above. So, seeing all of this response to you, you have no excuse but to at least take it to God in prayer, SERIOUS prayer, and listen to the source.

And again, like one who has no understanding of the things of the spirit, you don't recognize that love and obedience are inseparable.

If I say to my partner, "I don't sleep with other guys. Look how loving I am," I'm an idiot. I don't sleep with other guys because I love him. I value him. I value our relationship, and don't jeopardize it with selfish words or actions.
But I don't feel like I have to "obey." It isn't an "obey me" relationship, but one of choosing to simply act in love.

I'm telling ya those of you who are so against me judging have gotten right good at it yourselves.

You know how there is that guy on your dorm floor who doesn't wear deodorant, and everyone laughs or complains about him because of it? Dude - you stink. I would rather be upfront about it. You can choose not to wear deodorant, or you can take the advice. I'm just not going to talk about you behind your back, but address the situation. I don't think you are a bad person, but are very misguided.

You adhere to another god so I'm not exactly trying to align myself with your list.

I do, and that it explains it.

I have to answer to Jesus Christ first. And as one called to deliver His truth, I am well beyond folks who aren't Christians or who aren't aligned with His word thinking that any "advice" from them carries any weight.

Then take it to God in prayer. Ask him about what I said. Ask him if what I said came from him. Ask him if any of us are right, or if God was speaking through some of us, and I trust that if you are open, and listen, he will respond. Otherwise, it wouldn't be pressing on me, and I would be doing something else.

I thank God for you, though. Buddhism teaches that someone who appears to be your enemy is your greatest teacher, and I have found that in you.

Namaste

 

[Beanieboy]

yes it does appear in the bible

arsenokoites - men who bed with other men

THe word is both used in Romans 1 and the Septuagint in Leviticus where is specifically condemns homosexuality.

YAHTZEE!!!
(Translated loosely, means, "All OP roads lead to homosexuality." After all, that's pretty much the main thesis of the bible and the Gospel, so why branch off?)

 

[Beanieboy]

Getting back to the OP, two things:

You, Polycarp_Fan: Why are you here, or WHY are you here, or Why are you HERE? I would like to hear from you.

Second, I come here usually every day as a way to unwind, to talk, and chew on meatier subjects and issues, and I really appreciate the people on this forum. I can't say that I agree with everyone, but I appreciate your diversity and how each of you brings something different to the table, your passion - again, even when I am in complete disagreement, your humor, your time, your sharing of yourselves, and the amazing miracle of the internet, where I can talk about such issues with people from all over the world at once, something that was never even dreamed about when I was a boy. It's a true gift that I value, and each one of you a gift that I thank God for. There are those of you that defend God's name against those who would smear it, or misrepresent, and I thank you for your bravery. For those who disagree with me, or are even hostile towards me, I am reminded that you are my greatest teachers, and thank God for you as well. There are those who have encouraged me when I felt defeated, attacked, or like I just babbling at the keyboard, talking rot. There are those that have nurtured me with small words of kindness, and helped me far more than you will ever know while you live this life, but will know soon enough in the next. I thank those who have used their skills of words to explain the complicated into clear, concise, easy words, like the Parables Christ gave the people. I am thankful for those who challenge me, because it allows me to challenge myself, and question my own ideas of what is just, ethical, right, wrong, what God is, wants, feels about us. I thank people for there gift of intelligence in such conversations. And mostly, I appreciate the fact that you all share your time with me and others, give me the time to go on about ethics, God, religion, spirituality, and all the other subjects that seem to make most people roll their eyes or change the subject.

And whether I have disagreed with you, and searched the bible to support it, you have led me to search the bible. And many of you have taught me the value of myself, that in seeing all the gifts of God in each soul around me, that I have forgotten that I, too, am a gift from God for others as well. I am so grateful for having been reminded of that, something that heals the heart in ways that creates hope, compassion for others, mercy, forgiveness - and the ability to forgive our biggest enemy, ourselves. You have all made my life richer, and hopefully, like me, when CF crashes, you feel it, the connection within you also crashes, the feeling of being cut off, and I remember it, stop taking it for granted, and again, give eternal thanks for learning about love by being pressed and called to choose it in my words and actions, and even more so in the way it has been shown to me.

I humbly bow to the God within you.

Namaste

 

[Zaac]

I'm from Maryland, sorry. The worst we do is add an "r" to Washington making it "Warshington" for reasons I can't quite figure out.

I'll ask again though: How do you know your interpretation is correct and someone else's is not? There a many, many Christian denominations and they all claim to be correct.

Where have I given you an interpretation about something that God says?