Why are unbelievers in Hell if they already died?

[WebersHome]

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Does eternal life mean we never physically die?

Eternal Life is often confused for Immortality. The two are not the same.

For example; according to John 3:36, John 6:47, John 5:24, and 1John 5:13 believers have eternal life right now-- no delay, and no waiting period.

However, according to Rom 8:23-25 and 1Cor 15:35-54, they won't obtain immortality till their resurrections.

Jesus had eternal life when he was here. (John 5:26 and 1John 1:2)

However, according to Rom 6:9 and Rev 1:18, he didn't obtain immortality until his resurrection.

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[WebersHome]

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The wages of sin is death. Why are unbelievers in Hell if they already died?

The wages of sin isn't one death for all sins, rather, one death for each sin.

Say somebody tells 115 lies in their lifetime. Well, that's 115 counts of dishonesty on the books for which the penalty for each is death. Ergo; in order for the serial liar to satisfy justice for those 115 lies, he would have to be executed 115 times.

Everyone's first death is due to Adam's sin in the garden of Eden (Rom 5:12 and Rom 5:17). So the serial liar's first death can't be used to satisfy justice for one of his 115 lies because his first death is already earmarked to satisfy justice for the forbidden fruit incident.

Serial liars are really out of luck because according to Dan 12:2 and John 5:28-29, there is but one resurrection allotted per person. So the very most that the serial liar can atone for is just one of his 115 lies; leaving a deficit of 114 lies on the books for which he will never, ever, have enough lives to pay.

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[surrender1]

I should have written the sentence in future tense. I meant the place where the unbelieving people must go

From the wording of your post, do you believe in the existence of Hell?

Hell is a word used for Sheol, Hades, Tartarus, and Gehenna.
Sheol is the grave or the state of being dead. Everyone goes to Sheol, whether the person was good or bad. In Greek mythology, Hades was the name of the underworld and its god. Hades was the primary translation for the Hebrew word, Sheol. So, Hades is the grave or state of being dead. In Greek mythology, Tartarus was a prison for terrible monsters. Peter used this word to describe the fate of fallen angles. When people say things like, "Jesus talked about hell more than anything else", they are referring to the eleven times Jesus uses the word Gehenna. Gehenna is the Greek spelling of a Hebrew place-name, Ge-Hinnom, which means Valley of Hinnom. For the Jews, Gehenna came to be known as a symbol for divine punishment. In a nutshell, when Jesus warned the Jews they were in danger of being thrown into the fires of Gehenna, it was something like a Japanese prophet warning his contemporaries they were in danger of being be punished in the fires of Hiroshima if they didn't repent. Or a prophet of Germany telling his contemporaries they were in danger of being punished in the fires of Auschwitz. It was a serious and startling metaphor used to warn the Jews just how close they were to repeating their ancestors' mistakes.

 

[Newlyrestoredgospel777]

The wages of sin is death. Why are unbelievers in Hell if they already died?

First of all the spirit already had eternal life and cannot die. Eternal life simply means living without dying. Therefore there is nothing like spiritual death. What there is in the bible are the first and second death.

The first death are for those here in earth who tastes death, while the second death is burning in the lake of fire, which also death itself will partake of according to Revelation.

The death of our Supreme Lord Jesus Christ was masterminded by Ciaphas and his cohorts according to John 11 and concocted the lie that HE died to save us all, which they handed over to Paul to spread.

 

[FreeGrace2]

First of all the spirit already had eternal life and cannot die.

What Scripture teaches this? No need to answer. The answer is none.

Adam was created body, soul and spirit. When he sinned, his human spirit died immediately. The human spirit is RE-generated or RE-born only when a person puts their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. It's also called being born again.

The soul of everyone WILL exist forever, but it's never described as "eternal life", simply because the Bible never describes conscious existence in the lake of fire as 'life'.

Eternal life simply means living without dying.

No it doesn't. I have to wonder where you've gotten your "information". Eternal life is God's life. Which is the life He gives to believers.

Therefore there is nothing like spiritual death.

Once again the Bible refutes your "information". The lake of fire, which is the final location of existence for all who never believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, is also described in Revelation as the "second death". This is spiritual death, not physical death.

And Paul describes one's life BEFORE faith in Christ as 'dead' in Eph 2:
1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

What other kind of 'dead' could Paul have referred to in v.1?

What there is in the bible are the first and second death.

Well, finally, some truth in your post. Yes, there is physical death, and spiritual death.

Humans will experience one of these 2 conditions:
1. born once and die twice, or
2. born twice, and die once.

iow, everyone will be born physically, but only believers in Jesus Christ are born again, making it 2 births.

Believers only will never die spiritually, because they have been born again spiritually. But unbelievers will not only die physically, but are already dead spiritually.

The death of our Supreme Lord Jesus Christ was masterminded by Ciaphas and his cohorts according to John 11 and concocted the lie that HE died to save us all, which they handed over to Paul to spread.

This is pure nonsense. Why do you refer to Jesus Christ as "Supreme Lord" out of one side of your mouth while spewing from the other side of your mouth that His death for salvation is a lie?

This sounds like you don't believe that Jesus Christ died for the sins of mankind. That it was some puny human who put Him on the cross.

What nonsense. But those who don't know the Scriptures make these errors frequently.

Acts 2:
22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.
23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.

It was only wicked men who helped out with God's deliberate plan.

The sacrifice of Jesus was prophesied way back in Genesis 3:15 - 15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.”

This was said to Satan regarding Jesus. Satan did "strike His heel" by motivating ment to put Him on a cross. But He crushed Satan's head by dying for all sin.

Or as 1 John 3:8 says: The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

 

[Pastor-Kings]

What Scripture teaches this? No need to answer. The answer is none.

Adam was created body, soul and spirit. When he sinned, his human spirit died immediately. The human spirit is RE-generated or RE-born only when a person puts their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. It's also called being born again.

The soul of everyone WILL exist forever, but it's never described as "eternal life", simply because the Bible never describes conscious existence in the lake of fire as 'life'.


No it doesn't. I have to wonder where you've gotten your "information". Eternal life is God's life. Which is the life He gives to believers.


Once again the Bible refutes your "information". The lake of fire, which is the final location of existence for all who never believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, is also described in Revelation as the "second death". This is spiritual death, not physical death.

And Paul describes one's life BEFORE faith in Christ as 'dead' in Eph 2:
1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

What other kind of 'dead' could Paul have referred to in v.1?


Well, finally, some truth in your post. Yes, there is physical death, and spiritual death.

Humans will experience one of these 2 conditions:
1. born once and die twice, or
2. born twice, and die once.

iow, everyone will be born physically, but only believers in Jesus Christ are born again, making it 2 births.

Believers only will never die spiritually, because they have been born again spiritually. But unbelievers will not only die physically, but are already dead spiritually.


This is pure nonsense. Why do you refer to Jesus Christ as "Supreme Lord" out of one side of your mouth while spewing from the other side of your mouth that His death for salvation is a lie?

This sounds like you don't believe that Jesus Christ died for the sins of mankind. That it was some puny human who put Him on the cross.

What nonsense. But those who don't know the Scriptures make these errors frequently.

Acts 2:
22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.
23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.

It was only wicked men who helped out with God's deliberate plan.

The sacrifice of Jesus was prophesied way back in Genesis 3:15 - 15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.”

This was said to Satan regarding Jesus. Satan did "strike His heel" by motivating ment to put Him on a cross. But He crushed Satan's head by dying for all sin.

Or as 1 John 3:8 says: The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

When you are so passionate and zealous for GOD, but preach lies, you lie.

If your salvation demanded for the death of your saviour then so be it; for whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you, do so unto them for that is the Law and the Prophet. So be very sure that that which you believed and endorsed is a price you will be equally willing to pay for another, because it MUST be proven, as you tagged it justice, even after you read the conspiracy.

My salvation did not demand for the dear life of my saviour, as my life is not more important than His is.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Luke 23:46
And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into Your hands I commit My SPIRIT.” Having said this, He breathed His last. (BODY/SOUL combo bled to death.

Ecclesiastes 12...Remember God in Your Youth: AT DEATH...
7 then the dust (Body/Soul) will return to the earth as it was, (Genesis 2:7)
and the SPIRIT (breath of life) will return to God who gave it. (Genesis 1:26)
8 “Vanity of vanities,” says the Preacher, “all is vanity!”

Has anybody defined "DEAD"/"DEATH??!
What part of Man "dies" when his blood pump and brain bucket stop?
What part of Man "lives" beyond "death"? (if any?)

What I choose to be BELIEVE for believers:
" To be absent from the BODY/SOUL (death on earth) is to be present (spiritually) with the TRI-UNE GOD (eternal life in heavenly realms)".
...a paraphrase of Paul, emphasizing differences in BODY / SPIRIT. SEE: 2 Cor. 5

2 Corinthians 5: 1-15 (NIV)...Our Heavenly Dwelling
8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer
to be away from the BODY and at home (HEAVEN) with the Lord.(SPIRITUAL PRESENCE)

1 Peter 3: 18-19 (NIV with my comments)
(Jesus the Christ's BODY) being put to death in the flesh, but made (spiritually) alive by (God) the (Holy) Spirit,
19 by whom also He (resurrected Jesus) went and preached to (~released) the spirits (souls) in prison,...("Paradise" and "Hades" sides of "Abraham's Bosom") SEE: Luke 16:19-31 below

For the THREE parts of man, SPIRIT, SOUL and BODY, SEE:

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (NIV)
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through.
May your whole SPIRIT, SOUL and BODY be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:12 (NASB) ....difference in SOUL and SPIRIT
For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword,
and piercing as far as the DIVISION of SOUL and SPIRIT,
of both joints and marrow, (BODY)
and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.(spiritual conscience)

Luke 16: 19-31...Jesus teaching on Jewish Tradition...Jesus' descent to set the captives free...
TWO unseen and separated spiritual PLACES for the bodies / souls of the DEAD...
"Paradise"* + "Hades"** = "Abraham's Busom"

Man's Bodies (sarx / soma) are mortal. They die a natural death when the heart / brain fail.

Man's linked Souls (psyches) are mortal and have mystical union with Body. They die a natural death with the Body.

Man's Spirits (pnuema) are immortal, given in the spiritual image and likeness of the God of pure and perfect spirit.

The Body / Soul combo "houses" the Spirit.

Isaiah 42:5
Thus says God the Lord,
Who created the heavens and stretched them out,
Who spread out the earth and its offspring,
Who gives breath to the people on it (Body/Soul)
And SPIRIT to those who walk in it,

Zechariah 12:1B
Thus declares the Lord
who stretches out the heavens,
lays the foundation of the earth, and
forms the SPIRIT of man within him,(Body/Soul)

All SPIRITS will be JUDGED by God for their acts / omissions/thoughts while in the Body / Soul.

UNBELIEVERS: sentenced to the "lake of fire" and judged for their LACK OF SPIRITUAL POSITION at the Great White Throne. Revelation 20:11-15

15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the (Lamb's) "book of life", (BELIEVERS) he was thrown into the "lake of fire." (UNBELIEVERS)

BELIEVERS: NOT judged about their SPIRITUAL POSITION in Christ. This was established at the time of their SALVATION EVENT.

JUDGMENT Seat (bema=awards platform) of Jesus the Christ:
Judgment of the BELIEVER'S WORKS...ONLY!

2 Corinthians 5: 1-15 (NIV) + 1 Corinthians 3:10-15
10 For we (BELIEVERS) must all appear before the "judgment (bema = awards platform) seat of Christ",
that each one may receive what is due him for the things done (WORKS) while in the BODY, whether good or bad....

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 (NIV)...Judgment of the BELIEVER'S WORKS
1 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid,
which is Jesus Christ.(salvation)
12 If any man BUILDS on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
13 his WORK will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it (WORKS) to light.
It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's WORK.
14 If what he has BUILT survives, he will receive his REWARD.(CROWNS)
15 If it (WORK) is burned up, he will suffer LOSS;
he himself will be SAVED, but only as one escaping through the flames.(miraculous delivery)

Romans 14:1-23...BELIEVERS:....Do not judge one another
For to this end Christ died and lived again, so that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
Why do you pass judgment on your brother or sister?
Or you, why do you despise your brother or sister?
For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.
For it is written,
“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall give praise to God.”
So then, each of us will be accountable to God....
for whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.

1 Corinthians 6:19
Or do you not know that your BODY (/soul combo) is a temple of (God) the Holy Spirit who is in you,
whom you have from God (the Father), and that you are not your own?

 

[FreeGrace2]

When you are so passionate and zealous for GOD, but preach lies, you lie.

Show me any lies I've posted.

If your salvation demanded for the death of your saviour then so be it; for whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you, do so unto them for that is the Law and the Prophet. So be very sure that that which you believed and endorsed is a price you will be equally willing to pay for another, because it MUST be proven, as you tagged it justice, even after you read the conspiracy.

Apparently my post to another poster explaining all this was ignored or missed.

Christ's death on the cross was necessary before God would save anyone.

Maybe you don't believe Rom 4:25, but I do. "He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification."

Sins HAD to be paid for. So who paid the debt? Jesus Christ. This is basic Christianity 101. You might want to check your own credentials.

My salvation did not demand for the dear life of my saviour, as my life is not more important than His is.

Who paid for your sins then, if not your "dear savior"? Or are you still in your sins?

 

[Pastor-Kings]

Show me any lies I've posted.


Apparently my post to another poster explaining all this was ignored or missed.

Christ's death on the cross was necessary before God would save anyone.

Maybe you don't believe Rom 4:25, but I do. "He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification."

Sins HAD to be paid for. So who paid the debt? Jesus Christ. This is basic Christianity 101. You might want to check your own credentials.


Who paid for your sins then, if not your "dear savior"? Or are you still in your sins?

No one paid for my sin, if someone did, I will not have any further need to live righteous and holy. It means I'm already saved, why bother to keep running my race?

You need to understand that Our Supreme Lord Jesus Christ did not come to die for you or myself, the mankind HE came, not to just die for, but to bail (being held by the Law of procreation)was the principal ancestor of mankind, who like a seed which must die to beat more fruits, paid the ultimate price for us all to come. The same law that takes the planted seed and not release it again, was the same law which held Him down.

What you and I need is to run our race and to also seek for forgiveness for our transgressions, which a have access to. Mankind has been granted amnesty after the banishment, which was why Enoch and Elijah could transfigure and go to heaven without waiting to accept Jesus Christ (H.P) as their Lord and Saviour.

The All Forgiving GOD will not require the life of another to forgive you. If HE is All Forgiving, will it not be sheer wickedness to send HIS beloved Son to die just for your sake, what is the sense and justice in that.

Those that planted that in the scripture are ritualists and devils, GOD is not a ritualist and HIS blessings are not through rituals.

 

[FreeGrace2]

No one paid for my sin, if someone did, I will not have any further need to live righteous and holy. It means I'm already saved, why bother to keep running my race?

This demonstrates a woeful ignorance of Scripture. If your sins weren't paid for, you will DIE in them. Everyone will. God's justice demands propitiation. The death of Christ did satisfy the justice of God. Apart from propitiation, no one could be saved.

You need to understand that Our Supreme Lord Jesus Christ did not come to die for you or myself, the mankind HE came, not to just die for, but to bail (being held by the Law of procreation)was the principal ancestor of mankind, who like a seed which must die to beat more fruits, paid the ultimate price for us all to come.

Not a bit of this stuff comes from Scripture. It is apparent that you're the one in desperate need to understand what Scripture actually says.

The same law that takes the planted seed and not release it again, was the same law which held Him down.

This doesn't make any sense, nor does it reflect any Scripture.

What you and I need is to run our race and to also seek for forgiveness for our transgressions, which a have access to.

I see that your belief is in a Pharisee-type religion, which is works based. I'll have NONE of it.

Paul said in Eph 2:8-9 that we are saved by grace through faith, not of works.

Mankind has been granted amnesty after the banishment, which was why Enoch and Elijah could transfigure and go to heaven without waiting to accept Jesus Christ (H.P) as their Lord and Saviour.

More Scrptural confusion, for sure. Where is the passage that teaches any of this?

The All Forgiving GOD will not require the life of another to forgive you.

This is blasphemous heresy.

If HE is All Forgiving, will it not be sheer wickedness to send HIS beloved Son to die just for your sake, what is the sense and justice in that.

It is apparent the woeful ignorance of Scripture in your beliefs.

As to forgiveness, consider Acts 10:43 - "All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

 

[Pastor-Kings]

This demonstrates a woeful ignorance of Scripture. If your sins weren't paid for, you will DIE in them. Everyone will. God's justice demands propitiation. The death of Christ did satisfy the justice of God. Apart from propitiation, no one could be saved.


Not a bit of this stuff comes from Scripture. It is apparent that you're the one in desperate need to understand what Scripture actually says.


This doesn't make any sense, nor does it reflect any Scripture.


I see that your belief is in a Pharisee-type religion, which is works based. I'll have NONE of it.

Paul said in Eph 2:8-9 that we are saved by grace through faith, not of works.


More Scrptural confusion, for sure. Where is the passage that teaches any of this?


This is blasphemous heresy.


It is apparent the woeful ignorance of Scripture in your beliefs.

As to forgiveness, consider Acts 10:43 - "All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

If the wages of Sin be death, why has Lucifer and cohorts been alive since the beginning? Why did what happen to Adam (H.E) and Eve not happen to them? Do you know how many people that have died so far in this earth?

 

[saiz]

forgot to reply to the person.

 

[saiz]

This demonstrates a woeful ignorance of Scripture. If your sins weren't paid for, you will DIE in them. Everyone will. God's justice demands propitiation. The death of Christ did satisfy the justice of God. Apart from propitiation, no one could be saved.


Not a bit of this stuff comes from Scripture. It is apparent that you're the one in desperate need to understand what Scripture actually says.


This doesn't make any sense, nor does it reflect any Scripture.


I see that your belief is in a Pharisee-type religion, which is works based. I'll have NONE of it.

Paul said in Eph 2:8-9 that we are saved by grace through faith, not of works.


More Scrptural confusion, for sure. Where is the passage that teaches any of this?


This is blasphemous heresy.


It is apparent the woeful ignorance of Scripture in your beliefs.

As to forgiveness, consider Acts 10:43 - "All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Adam was created body, soul and spirit. When he sinned, his human spirit died immediately. The human spirit is RE-generated or RE-born only when a person puts their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. It's also called being born again. (your comment)

The soul of everyone WILL exist forever, but it's never described as "eternal life", simply because the Bible never describes conscious existence in the lake of fire as 'life'. (your comment)

JESUS our Supreme LORD said: If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. John 8:51
If you are spiritual dead, then haven't you seen death? This HE said to a people that according to your belief had not had their sins paid for. John 8:51 is the reason why the Pharisees wanted to stone him and the reason why many of HIS followers walked away

This demonstrates a woeful ignorance of Scripture. If your sins weren't paid for, you will DIE in them. Everyone will. God's justice demands propitiation. The death of Christ did satisfy the justice of God. Apart from propitiation, no one could be saved.

The Propitation was for the Original Sin, which is mortality. Why do you think that would be a Sin? The Heavenly Citizens, Cherubim and the Serpahim and the Angels have never tasted death, why then does Mankind who was birthed in the image and after the likeness of the GOD taste death?

16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

This proves that Father Adam H.E was not a Mortal.

The GOD does not Curse and bless with the same tongue. HE is not double tongued. Curses are not made by the GOD they are a result of certain actions committed. The Blessings and Curses in Deuteronomy 28reveals that these are results of their obedience, or disobedience not because the GOD cursed them, but because their are laws and bounds in play in the earth.

For example: Whatsoever a man sows, He reaps. This is a Law in the Earth.

You need to understand that Our Supreme Lord Jesus Christ did not come to die for you or myself, the mankind HE came, not to just die for, but to bail (being held by the Law of procreation)was the principal ancestor of mankind, who like a seed which must die to beat more fruits, paid the ultimate price for us all to come. The same law that takes the planted seed and not release it again, was the same law which held Him down.

24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. John 12:24

Father Adam H.E is the Corn of Wheat that had to die to bear much fruit. When you plant a seed in the ground to grow an orange tree for example, what happens to the seed? Do you still look for the seed when the tree is grown and is bearing fruit? The seed dies to bear the fruit of the tree. In the same way, if Father Adam H.E did not die, we would have had no body to run our race in.

What you and I need is to run our race and to also seek for forgiveness for our transgressions, which a have access to. Mankind has been granted amnesty after the banishment, which was why Enoch and Elijah could transfigure and go to heaven without waiting to accept Jesus Christ (H.P) as their Lord and Saviour.

This doesn't make any sense, nor does it reflect any Scripture. (your comment)

Do you deny that The Great Prophet Enoch transfigured in life without tasting death at all? Do you deny that the bible you read says that Elijah of Tishbe the Great Prophet Transfigured in Life without tasting death? tell me, how did they die then? And also tell me, what bible did they read?

The All Forgiving GOD will not require the life of another to forgive you. If HE is All Forgiving, will it not be sheer wickedness to send HIS beloved Son to die just for your sake, what is the sense and justice in that.

This is blasphemous heresy. (your Comment)

Why is this Heresy? How can you call the GOD all Forgiving if death is the payment for HIS forgiveness? Do you know that in revelations the GOD calls death your enemy? How then can death (the enemy) be a payment for your forgiveness? Is that the Currency to receive your forgiveness? Do you think you can give anything to the ALL GIVING GOD?

Those that planted that in the scripture are ritualists and devils, GOD is not a ritualist and HIS blessings are not through rituals.[/QUOTE]

I fear that perhaps you didn't read this passage.

47Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles. 48If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.

49And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, 50Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not. 51And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

53Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

This is the same people which were called Brood of Vipers. This is the same people that wanted to kill Lazarus. This is the same people that wanted JESUS our Supreme LORD dead.

Yet you say you don't want a Pharisee works based salvation and the salvation you endorse comes from them.

Human Sacrifice is an occultic practice. Why would the ALMIGHTY GOD WHO IS the MOST HOLY and MOST RIGHTEOUS require the practices of the occult to save you? Why would HE endorse that your enemy (death) be the path to life?

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.

Thess 2:11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness

Where is the Righteousness in praising the death of the One that was sent to save you?

 

[FreeGrace2]

If the wages of Sin be death, why has Lucifer and cohorts been alive since the beginning?

Those familiar with the Scriptures know that the lake of fire was prepared for them.
Matt 25:41 - "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

iow, they are dead angels walking.

Also, those familiar with Scripture know WHEN the devil will be thrown into the lake of fire.
Rev 20:10 - 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Why did what happen to Adam (H.E) and Eve not happen to them?

Why would anyone think there is an answer to this question?

Do you know how many people that have died so far in this earth?

What does it matter? What matters is that everyone except a very select few will die physically.

Why? Because the Bible says so.
Heb 9:27 - Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

 

[saiz]

Those familiar with the Scriptures know that the lake of fire was prepared for them.
Matt 25:41 - "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

iow, they are dead angels walking.

Also, those familiar with Scripture know WHEN the devil will be thrown into the lake of fire.
Rev 20:10 - 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (your comment)

And yet the devil and cohorts have never experienced a physical death as Mankind has. Why? even the tares (children of disobedience) will be cast into the lake of fire and yet they also die. But why don't fallen Angels and lucifer and cohorts who committed great crimes experience a Physical death?

Why would anyone think there is an answer to this question?

There is an answer to this question, and it is found in the LAW of Procreation.

John 12:24

The Cherubim/Serpahim/Angels do not procreate, they were made by the Spoken WORD of GOD and multiplied. The Very Son of GOD, Father Adam H.E (luke 3:38) was BIRTHED by the MOST HOLY SPIRIT. That is why He is in the image and after the likeness of GOD and is the mouthpiece of GOD, Lord of all the Administrative Heavens and their Citizens.

1 Tim: 2:14 - Adam (H.E) was not deceived, it is the woman that was found in the transgression.

Therefore, Father Adam H.E chose to eat the fruit that will make Him Mortal, sacrificing His celestial Life of Bliss, so that He could Procreate the Children of the Kingdom. The Fall of Man was a Plan, the LOGOS, which is the unalterable Blueprint of Salvation and is Perfect. This is why Man is in the mortal garment (body) and the Heavenly Citizens are not. The GOD does not create Mortals! A Mortal is imperfect, not good at all. how then can you accept that GOD called Mankind very good if He was a Mortal? If HIS Spoken WORD made immortal beings, How then can you accept that HE would birth Mortal Beings?

Mortality is in the flesh. (sin is in the flesh). Mortality is what produced death. The wages of Sin (mortality) is death. Don't you see? An immortal does not have flesh and blood and therefore does not die.

23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Where is the blood in their bodies?

1 Cor 15:50

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

No Blood can enter the kingdom of GOD. For it is the blood which makes us mortal. Thus, No mortal can enter the kingdom of Heaven. So how then can a mortal see the kingdom of GOD if a Mortal is NOT qualified to enter into the Kingdom?

How can a mortal claim to be reborn when he has a death date? No one who is a new creation, incorruptible can die any death for they are incorruptible. The enemy (Death) is not the route to Heaven.

Everyone who is not a new creation, that is to say Born a New, incorruptible without blood in the body and without ever- lasting life Which is Zoe is NOT born again, otherwise, those that claim to be born again also call the WORDS of JESUS our Supreme LORD to Nicodemus a lie.

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God

For HE said that one cannot SEE the kingdom if they are not born again. And a person with flesh and blood according to 1 Cor 15:50 cannot Enter the Kingdom of GOD. Therefore, they do not qualify to enter the Kingdom which means they are NOT born again.

Corruption does not inherit In-corruption: Therefore there is a due Process A Christian must walk. What is it?

53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

Why the Flesh and Blood? Because it is the Pure, RAW WORD of GOD, UNDILUTED which is dispensed only by the Son of Man.

Except means there is no other way.

Now Compare:

John 8:51 - If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

The GOD has delivered the Solution which is HIS WORD to come through the mouthpiece of GOD, the Son of Man. Malachi 4:4-6, Acts 3:19-23

This is the due Process for the salvation which was promised. Salvation from death which is your ENEMY.

What does it matter? What matters is that everyone except a very select few will die physically.

Why? Because the Bible says so.
Heb 9:27 - Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,[/QUOTE]

The point is revealed in the following verse:

13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

You said it yourself, Everyone except a very select few will die physically. So far, only 2 Holy Prophets of GOD have found the narrow way which leads to life and they are Enoch and Elijah.

No one that dies goes to Heaven, they go to where dead people go to, to await the Resurrection. How then can you say that we are Spiritually dead when it is the Spirit in the soul which leaves the body after death to await Resurrection? and yet, your body decays, and is lifeless; dead without you (the Spirit Being) in it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

There was just too much error to address in this very long post, so I'll just focus on one of the errors.

No one that dies goes to Heaven, they go to where dead people go to, to await the Resurrection.

This is what the Bible says about what happens at physical death:
2 Cor 5:8-9 - we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

When one dies, they are at home with the Lord. Not "to where dead people go". Which says nothing specifically.

We know that unbelievers go to "torments" awaiting the Great White Throne Judgment, and believers go to be at home with the Lord.

 

[saiz]

There was just too much error to address in this very long post, so I'll just focus on one of the errors.

This is what the Bible says about what happens at physical death:
2 Cor 5:8-9 - we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

When one dies, they are at home with the Lord. Not "to where dead people go". Which says nothing specifically.

We know that unbelievers go to "torments" awaiting the Great White Throne Judgment, and believers go to be at home with the Lord.

Luke 16:19-30

19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

If so, why was Lazarus not in Heaven after He died?

 

[saiz]

accidental double post.


Even moreso, why is there a resurrection if the "believers"are already there? If you already made Heaven, then why do you need to experience a resurrection?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Luke 16:19-30

19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

If so, why was Lazarus not in Heaven after He died?

Until Jesus died and visited Sheol, all dead people went there before the Resurrection. That's why even Abraham was there. His location has been described as "paradise", even as Jesus said to one of the robbers next to Him on the cross: Luke 23:43.

However, after His death, He visited Sheol, and took all believers with Him to heaven. Since then, all believers go directly to heaven at physical death, as Paul indicated.

 

[FreeGrace2]

accidental double post.


Even moreso, why is there a resurrection if the "believers"are already there? If you already made Heaven, then why do you need to experience a resurrection?

They're not "already there". They are awaiting their glorified bodies, which Paul described in 1 Cor 15.