Why are unbelievers in Hell if they already died?

[Fish14]

The wages of sin is death. Why are unbelievers in Hell if they already died?

 

[PropheticTimes]

The wages of sin is indeed death, but not just physical death. Spiritual death is the second death. (Revelation 20:14). Those in Christ Jesus will "not taste death" (Luke 9:27), which means spiritual death, not physical. That is the beautiful meaning of "eternal life".

 

[LilShepherdBoy]

The guy above just beat me to it but it means spiritual death, a separation from God.

 

[~Anastasia~]

God is the Source of all life.

The natural consequence of cutting oneself off from Life, of turning away from Life, is death. It is not a punishment God decided to inflict. "On the day you eat of it, you will surely die" is not a threat of punishment, but a warning of what will happen.

Sin is serving Satan. In a sense, Satan pays a "wage" for serving him. That wage is death. (Not that it comes from Satan, but it is the natural result.)


There is nothing in Scripture that says those who have died are "in hell" if you mean the hell mentioned in Revelation AFTER the Final Judgement, which obviously has not happened yet, since the end of this age has not come yet.

The death of the physical body is the consequence of Adam's sin, through him the curse cane upon creation, death entered in, and all men die. Even infants can die, although they have not committed any sin.

There is an understanding that eternal torment is not a PLACE of punishment where God chooses to throw people by way of punishment (that idea is more Dante than Christ). But if one truly hates God, and is made aware of all his evil choices, yet still in the presence of a God who loves him, a God who "is a consuming fire" and could not even show Himself to Moses, or Moses would die ... that person who hates God, is faced with his own evil, is opposed to God, yet cannot escape that love which is like fire, will understandably be tormented by that experience.

But it will happen to him IN HIS BODY, because he will have a body restored to him just as everyone will, so in a sense he won't be physically dead anymore.

However, a person who has died and hates God will be experiencing some torment in the meantime, for the same reasons.

This probably seems a bit disjointed. It's a large topic to try to summarize. I hope it might at least give something to think about. But not everything goes back to Dante.

 

[LutheranGuy123]

The Bible says that everyone will be resurrected, including the sinners. And really it doesn't say that Christians go to Heaven or that non-Christians go to Hell when they die. It says that happens at the day of judgment. What happens in between isn't really talked about.

 

[Dave-W]

The wages of sin is death. Why are unbelievers in Hell if they already died?

I think your question is based on a fallacy - that death is the cessation of consciousness or existence.

Biblical death means separation from God - the source of Life. Being in Hell (actually the Lake of Fire) is eternal conscious separation from God - eternal death.

Adam was told that on the day he ate from the tree he would die. It happened just that fast - he was immediately cut off from directly relating to God. Separation.

 

[Fish14]

I think your question is based on a fallacy - that death is the cessation of consciousness or existence.

Biblical death means separation from God - the source of Life. Being in Hell (actually the Lake of Fire) is eternal conscious separation from God - eternal death.

Adam was told that on the day he ate from the tree he would die. It happened just that fast - he was immediately cut off from directly relating to God. Separation.

With physical death I mean the separation of the soul from the body and with spiritual the separation of man and God.
If the wages of sin is spiritual death, then how did the physical death of Jesus atone for our sin?

 

[Dave-W]

If the wages of sin is spiritual death, then how did the physical death of Jesus atone for our sin?

The key is in Our Lord's final words (in this life) "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" There was a spiritual separation (death) between Our Lord and the rest of the Godhead.

 

[Fish14]

The key is in Our Lord's final words (in this life) "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" There was a spiritual separation (death) between Our Lord and the rest of the Godhead.

That is what I thought some time ago. However 1 Corinthians 15:3-5 says that Jesus died for our sins, was buried, resurrected and appeared to people. If His appearings are proof that He resurrected, His burial is proof that He died physically for our sins! Also, without blood there is no forgiveness of sins (Hebrews 9:22). I'm not sure if that means Jesus' blood is necessary or if it equals blood with death, but why would such verse exist if Jesus' spiritual death was enough?

It could be that our physical and spiritual deaths are not the wages of sin, but consequences of it (just like sickness, for example). Jesus' innocent death would be the actual penalty for sin. I think that view is not completely correct, but it sounds more biblical.

 

[Dave-W]

His burial is proof that He died physically for our sins! Also, without blood there is no forgiveness of sins (Hebrews 9:22). I'm not sure if that means Jesus' blood is necessary or if it equals blood with death, but why would such verse exist if Jesus' spiritual death was enough?

He died both physically and spiritually. Both were needed.

 

[Fish14]

He died both physically and spiritually. Both were needed.

Why do we still die physically then?

 

[Dave-W]

Consequences of living in a fallen world.

We have been saved from the penalty of sin.
We are being saved from the power of sin.
We will be saved (at the end) from the presence of sin.

In the meantime, all creation suffers futility and the pangs of childbirth (Rom 8), and we die.

 

[~Anastasia~]

How do you suppose it is even possible for Christ-God to "die spiritually"? I'm not looking to argue, but what does that even mean?

He HAD to incarnate and take on human flesh in order to be able to die physically. But God IS the Source of life. How can God "die spiritually"? That would seem to imply non-existence of Christ, or at least of separation from His divinity for a time, and neither are possible for God?

 

[EmSw]

How do you suppose it is even possible for Christ-God to "die spiritually"? I'm not looking to argue, but what does that even mean?

He HAD to incarnate and take on human flesh in order to be able to die physically. But God IS the Source of life. How can God "die spiritually"? That would seem to imply non-existence of Christ, or at least of separation from His divinity for a time, and neither are possible for God?

You are correct. How can Jesus who is Life Itself die? If you look at death the way the natural man does, Jesus isn't Life. You have death having power over Life, which isn't possible. Life CANNOT die!

 

[Butch5]

The wages of sin is death. Why are unbelievers in Hell if they already died?

They are in the grave. The concept of Hell as a place of eternal torment isn't from Scripture. The wages of sin is death, everyone sins and everyone dies.

 

[bling]

With physical death I mean the separation of the soul from the body and with spiritual the separation of man and God.
If the wages of sin is spiritual death, then how did the physical death of Jesus atone for our sin?

You have to understand “atonement” to answer your question.

God forgives our sins and forgiveness takes place if we accept His forgiveness as pure charity (as it is given), but forgiveness is not atonement nor is forgiveness part of atonement.

You need to start with Lev. 5 and get a good understanding of atonement for unintentional sins (these are really very “minor” sins) to at least catch up to the first century Jewish understanding of atonement.

 

[surrender1]

The wages of sin is death. Why are unbelievers in Hell if they already died?

It's doubtful they are in such a place. The doctrine isn't biblical.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The wages of sin is death. Why are unbelievers in Hell if they already died?

The Bible tells us specifically why people are "cast into the lake of fire" in Rom 20:11-15.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

To be in the "book of life" means to have received the gift of eternal life. Those who don't possess God's free gift of eternal life cannot live with God eternally, as they don't have His life.

Eternal life is given to those who have trusted in Jesus Christ for salvation.

 

[Jack Terrence]

The wages of sin is indeed death, but not just physical death. Spiritual death is the second death. (Revelation 20:14). Those in Christ Jesus will "not taste death" (Luke 9:27), which means spiritual death, not physical. That is the beautiful meaning of "eternal life".

"For as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned."

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Where in the text does the word "death" change in meaning from 5:12-6:23?

 

[PropheticTimes]

"For as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned."

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Where in the text does the word "death" change in meaning from 5:12-6:23?

Does eternal life mean we never physically die?