Why are there religious people?

[Archaeopteryx]

Here we have one who will graciously extend the right to life to a premie, as long as he survives. If he dies, however, she will withdraw the privilege.
And another who tells me "it's complicated", as if he were telling me some new thing.

And I am accused of being "sanctimonious".
Yeah...right.

You can pretend that it's not complicated, as you seem to be doing. That doesn't change the fact that it is. I'm still waiting for your response regarding the alleged training you received.

 

[TheBarrd]

You can pretend that it's not complicated, as you seem to be doing. That doesn't change the fact that it is. I'm still waiting for your response regarding the alleged training you received.

You know, Archaeopteryx, I'm beginning to get the feeling that you don't like me.
You seem to be trying to make this personal.
I'm not sure exactly why...I would hope you are not this condescending and downright rude to everyone who disagrees with you.
In any case, I'm not sure I want to play with you any more. Even my patience has it's limits...
Therefore, for my own good, I'm turning you off. There will be no point in continuing to try to talk to me, as I will be ignoring you.
I do hope you manage to get over your anger, and find a little peace...

 

[Archaeopteryx]

You know, Archaeopteryx, I'm beginning to get the feeling that you don't like me.
You seem to be trying to make this personal.
I'm not sure exactly why...I would hope you are not this condescending and downright rude to everyone who disagrees with you.

Condescending and rude is all you have been in this thread. You've falsely accused me of supporting the legalisation of sexual perversion and murder, and you've treated those who disagree with you like complete idiots lacking in both understanding and compassion.

In any case, I'm not sure I want to play with you any more. Even my patience has it's limits...
Therefore, for my own good, I'm turning you off. There will be no point in continuing to try to talk to me, as I will be ignoring you.
I do hope you manage to get over your anger, and find a little peace...

I'm still waiting for you to detail what your alleged training involved. How long was it? What did it entail? What organisation was responsible? If you want to present yourself as someone with credibility in this area then you will need to demonstrate it.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The question was, at what point does the developing life inside the womb become "human"...when does it stop being "a clump of cells" and start being a "person".
You said that would be when it was viable outside of the womb.
Somehow, you managed to twist it around to mean babies who are born prematurely, which is not what we were talking about.
It is interesting that you would be willing to extend legal rights to a child who had been born prematurely provided he lives...but if he dies, I guess he goes back to being "a clump of cells"? Let's not tell his parents that.
This sort of thing, right here, is a very good example of why I think that pro choice people are a couple of cards shy of a full deck.
Did you even think about this answer? You would be comfortable extending the legal right to life to a premature baby...so long as it survives...but not if it dies.
Your generosity in this situation is underwhelming....

Yea I thought about the answer...I also thought you wouldn't like it.

So what's your answer? Or will you just continue to dodge the question?

 

[TheBarrd]

You mean, when do I think the new life developing inside the mother's womb is human?
I thought we covered that....
It is human from the very beginning.
From the moment the embryo implants in the uterine wall, it is a "person" and deserves the same rights as any other "person"...including the right to live.
I already said that, and you wanted to know whether or not a woman dislodging the embryo that she doesn't know exists yet by doing jumping jacks was a murderer.
Surely you remember?
That question was one reason I figured fetal development was not your area of expertise...

 

[TheBarrd]

Did you know that you don't have to be a "rabid religious fanatic" in order to be pro life? Lots of sane, intelligent atheists are also on the side of life.
I love this:

Humanists for humanity...I am amazed and thrilled.
Thinking people realize that that little "blob of cells" is a person.
No less of a leader in atheism than Christopher Hitchens was in the pro life camp:

Christopher Hitchens, Atheist Who Was Adamantly Opposed To Abortion.

 

[TheBarrd]

I was just thinking...LOL...
Child logic...
Bird logic...

And now...
Atheist logic...

 

[Ana the Ist]

You mean, when do I think the new life developing inside the mother's womb is human?
I thought we covered that....
It is human from the very beginning.
From the moment the embryo implants in the uterine wall, it is a "person" and deserves the same rights as any other "person"...including the right to live.
I already said that, and you wanted to know whether or not a woman dislodging the embryo that she doesn't know exists yet by doing jumping jacks was a murderer.
Surely you remember?
That question was one reason I figured fetal development was not your area of expertise...

Oops sorry, I don't remember. I remember asking and Grim dismissing it for you and you agreeing that it didn't need an answer. That was it. Can you give me the page and post number or repeat the answer please?

 

[TheBarrd]

Oops sorry, I don't remember. I remember asking and Grim dismissing it for you and you agreeing that it didn't need an answer. That was it. Can you give me the page and post number or repeat the answer please?

Here is the conversation from my post 873:

Ana the Ist said: ↑
So if an unknowing mother does some jumping jacks and a recently implanted cluster of cells gets naturally aborted... that mother is a murderer?
Click to expand...

It's kinda hard to take you seriously when you throw such nonsense at me.

There was more, where you wanted to know why I wasn't protesting the war in Viet Nam, for some reason...but this is the important part. I apologize, but at that point I honestly figured you weren't the sharpest knife in the drawer...so I didn't take you seriously. No offense.

 

[TheBarrd]

You weren't finished yet, either.
After I told of the new baby birds in my backyard, you hit me with another jumping jack question:

"First an appeal to child logic...now an appeal to bird logic...
Everyone here understands these poor analogies...I would assume that all but one of us understands why they are poor. Eventually, we have to legally decide to draw a line between "a human" and "what could have been a human". Since you don't seem to want to do that, I'll go back to my example of the woman who does not know she has a fertilized egg implanted and does some strenuous activity. Murder or not? Why or why not?"

Once again, I sort of dismissed you as not being very bright. I figured you were just some kid parroting pro choice rhetoric, without the first clue what she was talking about...some pretty little teenager who, in a year or two, would be facing the horror of abortion herself...and, of course, her tune would change.
We've seen it a million times. Smart britches little brats who think they are soooo sophisticated...till they get the bad news...

 

[Ana the Ist]

Here is the conversation from my post 873:

Ana the Ist said: ↑
So if an unknowing mother does some jumping jacks and a recently implanted cluster of cells gets naturally aborted... that mother is a murderer?
Click to expand...

It's kinda hard to take you seriously when you throw such nonsense at me.

There was more, where you wanted to know why I wasn't protesting the war in Viet Nam, for some reason...but this is the important part. I apologize, but at that point I honestly figured you weren't the sharpest knife in the drawer...so I didn't take you seriously. No offense.

None taken...you really need to respect someone before their opinions about you begin to matter. Judging from what you've written here, you didn't exactly read it correctly anyway.

So basically, you aren't answering?

 

[Eyes wide Open]

You weren't finished yet, either.
After I told of the new baby birds in my backyard, you hit me with another jumping jack question:

"First an appeal to child logic...now an appeal to bird logic...
Everyone here understands these poor analogies...I would assume that all but one of us understands why they are poor. Eventually, we have to legally decide to draw a line between "a human" and "what could have been a human". Since you don't seem to want to do that, I'll go back to my example of the woman who does not know she has a fertilized egg implanted and does some strenuous activity. Murder or not? Why or why not?"

Once again, I sort of dismissed you as not being very bright. I figured you were just some kid parroting pro choice rhetoric, without the first clue what she was talking about...some pretty little teenager who, in a year or two, would be facing the horror of abortion herself...and, of course, her tune would change.
We've seen it a million times. Smart britches little brats who think they are soooo sophisticated...till they get the bad news...

I'm interested in your view on the solution to the problem. Lets say girl x (you can insert your bolded words if you like) gets pregnant even though she is on the pill, because lets say she had something that impacted the effectiveness of the pill, which we know happens. Yes I know you can say she should be with a partner that will support her if she does get pregnant etc (a desirable situation) but lets just shove that to the side for now. How would you legislate against her having an abortion if she doesn't want the child and her partner doesn't either, and that's why they were using contraception. You either support her choice to abort it, meaning that abortion and her choice to do so is the only solution to that problem for her and her partner not wanting the baby (not that you support the abortion) and thus you support that choice as the only viable solution to the problem, or you have a solution in mind so that the baby is not aborted. Is she to be forced to go to term and have a caesarean or actual birth and then adopt? I know that may be your desire, but would it be your wish for governing bodies to enforce that?

 

[Ana the Ist]

You weren't finished yet, either.
After I told of the new baby birds in my backyard, you hit me with another jumping jack question:

"First an appeal to child logic...now an appeal to bird logic...
Everyone here understands these poor analogies...I would assume that all but one of us understands why they are poor. Eventually, we have to legally decide to draw a line between "a human" and "what could have been a human". Since you don't seem to want to do that, I'll go back to my example of the woman who does not know she has a fertilized egg implanted and does some strenuous activity. Murder or not? Why or why not?"

Once again, I sort of dismissed you as not being very bright. I figured you were just some kid parroting pro choice rhetoric, without the first clue what she was talking about...some pretty little teenager who, in a year or two, would be facing the horror of abortion herself...and, of course, her tune would change.
We've seen it a million times. Smart britches little brats who think they are soooo sophisticated...till they get the bad news...

Who's "we" in this scenario? How many of you are working off of one account? Or do you just presume to speak for everyone else who isn't around?

Just fyi, I'm in my early thirties and a guy lol. It's cool though, I really do understand why you don't want to answer...it's not a position a rational thinking person could hold. You'd need to blindly follow to hold your position. Just throw the blinders up, ignore any evidence, sense, or logic.

If you could answer in a way that makes sense...you would... but you don't.

 

[TillICollapse]

Once again, I sort of dismissed you as not being very bright. I figured you were just some kid parroting pro choice rhetoric, without the first clue what she was talking about...some pretty little teenager who, in a year or two, would be facing the horror of abortion herself...and, of course, her tune would change.
We've seen it a million times. Smart britches little brats who think they are soooo sophisticated...till they get the bad news...

When someone puts down another person as not being very bright, not the sharpest tool in the shed ... there is typically some aspect of irony to their put down.

Do you think Ana the Ist is a female ? If you conclude that, on what grounds do you conclude that ? I'm assuming it's the username, correct ?

 

[Ana the Ist]

When someone puts down another person as not being very bright, not the sharpest tool in the shed ... there is typically some aspect of irony to their put down.

Do you think Ana the Ist is a female ? If you conclude that, on what grounds do you conclude that ? I'm assuming it's the username, correct ?

Personally, I find it hilarious that in her mind I've been a little girl all this time.

Tee hee.

 

[TillICollapse]

Personally, I find it hilarious that in her mind I've been a little girl all this time.

Tee hee.

Probably a version of this little girl ...

 

[Ana the Ist]

Probably a version of this little girl ...

LOL

 

[TheBarrd]

Personally, I find it hilarious that in her mind I've been a little girl all this time.

Tee hee.

Sorry...I guess it was the girly name that threw me.
And your questions did seem sort of...well, silly.
Seriously...a woman doing jumping jacks? I was supposed to take that seriously?
So, I apologize for thinking you were a little girl.
I suppose if you're a guy you wouldn't know a whole lot about being pregnant...about feeling that new life inside of you...about the mysterious bond between you and the little invader...you couldn't know the terror of feeling the abortion is the only alternative...the fear, and yes...the guilt.
Momma nature can be cruel...but that old commercial had it right.
It's not nice to fool Mother Nature...

In any case, I most humbly apologize for misreading you...

 

[TheBarrd]

Who's "we" in this scenario? How many of you are working off of one account? Or do you just presume to speak for everyone else who isn't around?

Just fyi, I'm in my early thirties and a guy lol. It's cool though, I really do understand why you don't want to answer...it's not a position a rational thinking person could hold. You'd need to blindly follow to hold your position. Just throw the blinders up, ignore any evidence, sense, or logic.

If you could answer in a way that makes sense...you would... but you don't.

"We" would be volunteers who give their time to abortion alternative centers. If you had been paying attention, you would have heard me saying that I have been such a volunteer for over 30 years. I'm getting old now, and there are health problems that kind of limit how much I can do any more...but I do still try to put in a few hours two or three days a week..

 

[TheBarrd]

"We" would be volunteers who give their time to abortion alternative centers. If you had been paying attention, you would have heard me saying that I have been such a volunteer for over 30 years. I'm getting old now, and there are health problems that kind of limit how much I can do any more...but I do still try to put in a few hours two or three days a week..