Why are there no cows in the Devonian?

[Queller]

They weren't there. I doubt it can be observed from a few fossil sites.

You think it is made up because the paleontologists and geologists weren't there to see it happening?

People aren't there to watch most murders happening either. Do you think that every murder investigation is made up?

 

[EternalDragon]

Your logic:

Question: Why are there no cows in the devonian?
Answer: Creation is a process and life forms are created in sequence.

See how that doesn't come even close to answering the question? Genesis and the fossil record have organisms appearing in a different order, so, which sequence is wrong? The one in Genesis or the one in the fossil record?

I think you are still assuming the fossil record is a slow process laid down over millions of years. And dismissing a world wide flood that would have changed the landscape in ways we can not repeat or test as well as bury creatures and environments, creating fossils. Of course the fossil record would not match the creation record.

 

[Black Akuma]

And dismissing a world wide flood that would have changed the landscape in ways we can not repeat or test

Why can't we repeat and test it? It's just a flood. Yes, a really, really big flood, but it's not like the mechanics of a flood are going to fundamentally change. There's no reason to think a massive flood would sort things differently than a smaller flood would. It's the same mechanism.

I think you are still assuming the fossil record is a slow process laid down over millions of years.

Also, not an assumption.

 

[CabVet]

I think you are still assuming the fossil record is a slow process laid down over millions of years. And dismissing a world wide flood that would have changed the landscape in ways we can not repeat or test as well as bury creatures and environments, creating fossils. Of course the fossil record would not match the creation record.

A world wide flood would be even more inconsistent with the fossil record, so let it go. This thread is not about the flood, it is about the order in which fossils appear in the record.

By the way, I am not assuming the fossil record was laid down over millions of years. For the purpose of this thread, it could have been laid down in 5 minutes. What we are discussing is the order of layers and their composition.

 

[Queller]

Not so clear. I do not see the word "all".
In Genesis 1, "every" word counts. Both said and not said are meaningful.

Genesis 1:20-21

And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

As you say, EVERY word counts.

 

[CabVet]

Genesis 1:20-21

And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

As you say, EVERY word counts.

Oh, but "every living thing" is not clear enough. It should have said "all living things".

 

[EternalDragon]

A world wide flood would be even more inconsistent with the fossil record, so let it go. This thread is not about the flood, it is about the order in which fossils appear in the record.

By the way, I am not assuming the fossil record was laid down over millions of years. For the purpose of this thread, it could have been laid down in 5 minutes. What we are discussing is the order of layers and their composition.

O.k. but it is no use trying to compare it and match it to the creation record. Or ask why it doesn't. It won't match.

Black Akuma, we can't repeat or test it because it was not a mere flood. The earth broke up in the process. The ocean floors rose up from subduction. And that is only a small percentage of what we know. Without all the particulars, it can't be tested.

 

[Queller]

Oh, but "every living thing" is not clear enough. It should have said "all living things".

It should be interesting to see how he rationalizes that "every" isn't the same as "all".

 

[Queller]

ED, since you keep ignoring this post on the Tiktaalik thread I'm going to post it here in the hopes that you will eventually address it. What say you?

Young earth creationism includes a world wide flood which killed lots of creature and plants and buried them in sediment all over the earth. Probably in specific environments in some cases.

So the fossil record is indeed compatible.

No, it isn't. Ecological Zonation, the YEC explanation you are referring to, is not compatible with the fossil record.

For example, dolphins, whales, sea turtles share the same Ecological Zone/specific environment (salt water oceans) as plesiosaurs, pliosaurs, and archelons. However, they are NEVER found together in the same layer of sediment.

Another example, elephants, buffalo, and sheep share the same ecological zones (grasslands and woodlands) as Brachiosaurs, Anklyosaurs, and Wannanosaurs. Yet they are NEVER found together in the the same layer of sediment.

Finally, sparrows and finches share the same ecological zones (the air) as pteranadons and pterodactyls yet are NEVER found in the same layer of sediment.

How does YEC geology explain this? The other two favorite YEC explanations, Hydrological Sorting and Differential Escape fail to explain it as well (and each has their own fatal problems).

 

[Black Akuma]

we can't repeat or test it because it was not a mere flood. The earth broke up in the process. The ocean floors rose up from subduction. And that is only a small percentage of what we know. Without all the particulars, it can't be tested.

A) how would a flood cause any of that?

B) where's your evidence any of that happened?

C) how would any of that lead to the rather specific order of fossils we see in the fossil record?

 

[EternalDragon]

ED, since you keep ignoring this post on the Tiktaalik thread I'm going to post it here in the hopes that you will eventually address it. What say you?

No, it isn't. Ecological Zonation, the YEC explanation you are referring to, is not compatible with the fossil record.

For example, dolphins, whales, sea turtles share the same Ecological Zone/specific environment (salt water oceans) as plesiosaurs, pliosaurs, and archelons. However, they are NEVER found together in the same layer of sediment.

Another example, elephants, buffalo, and sheep share the same ecological zones (grasslands and woodlands) as Brachiosaurs, Anklyosaurs, and Wannanosaurs. Yet they are NEVER found together in the the same layer of sediment.

Finally, sparrows and finches share the same ecological zones (the air) as pteranadons and pterodactyls yet are NEVER found in the same layer of sediment.

How does YEC geology explain this? The other two favorite YEC explanations, Hydrological Sorting and Differential Escape fail to explain it as well (and each has their own fatal problems).

Let me know exactly what the earth looked like then, the shape and size of each continent and the type of climate. Just so I can better answer your questions.

 

[Black Akuma]

Let me know exactly what the earth looked like then, the shape and size of each continent and the type of climate. Just so I can better answer your questions.

How would any of these factors effect the order of fossils we observe in the fossil record?

 

[CabVet]

Let me know exactly what the earth looked like then, the shape and size of each continent and the type of climate. Just so I can better answer your questions.

You don't need to know exactly how a room looked like yesterday to know that a murder was committed there. Furthermore, regardless of climate, according to the Bible, fruit trees were created before all other animals, and birds before insects, and that is not reflected in the fossil record. There are plenty of terrestrial plants in the fossil record going back hundreds of millions of years, but fruit trees appear much more recently. Similarly, insects appear much earlier than birds, which contradicts the Bible. Why don't you focus on these two examples for starters?

 

[AV1611VET]

You don't need to know exactly how a room looked like yesterday to know that a murder was committed there. Furthermore, regardless of climate, according to the Bible, fruit trees were created before all other animals, and birds before insects, and that is not reflected in the fossil record. There are plenty of terrestrial plants in the fossil record going back hundreds of millions of years, but fruit trees appear much more recently. Similarly, insects appear much earlier than birds, which contradicts the Bible. Why don't you focus on these two examples for starters?

Let's simplify this.

Forget what's on the earth ... let's focus on the earth itself.

Why don't your records reflect the earth coming into existence before the sun?

 

[CabVet]

Why don't your records reflect the earth coming into existence before the sun?

Because it didn't.

 

[AV1611VET]

Because it didn't.

So then what's with wondering about the order of things on the earth?

Why strain at gnats while ignoring the camels?

 

[CabVet]

So then what's with wondering about the order of things on the earth?

Why strain at gnats while ignoring the camels?

Evidence in the earth is easier to explain. I can post photos of Devonian fossils here, and I can show that there are no cows (or mammals) on those layers. I cannot do the same for the formation of the earth.

 

[Aman777]

Let's simplify this.

Forget what's on the earth ... let's focus on the earth itself.

Why don't your records reflect the earth coming into existence before the sun?

Dear AV, The first Earth, the Earth of Adam, which was made on the 3rd Day Gen 1:9-10, was made BEFORE our Sun which was made on the 4th Day. Gen 1:16. That's precisely what is actually written. Therefore, the first Earth was made long BEFORE the first Stars of our Cosmos.

The confusion comes when one falsely assumes that the Bible is speaking of ONLY our Earth, which is the 2nd Earth. That's why Science thinks the Bible is wrong. That's God's Truth. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[AV1611VET]

Evidence in the earth is easier to explain.

I'm sure it is.

Anything to dupe the public.

I can post photos of Devonian fossils here, and I can show that there are no cows (or mammals) on those layers.

Oh, my.

Congratulations.

I can post photos of LAX and show there are no planes on the runway.

Then I can dupe the public into thinking there are no planes at LAX -- (or at least try).

 

[AV1611VET]

Dear AV, The first Earth, the Earth of Adam, which was made on the 3rd Day Gen 1:9-10, was made BEFORE our Sun which was made on the 4th Day. Gen 1:16. That's precisely what is actually written. Therefore, the first Earth was made long BEFORE the first Stars of our Cosmos.

The confusion comes when one falsely assumes that the Bible is speaking of ONLY our Earth, which is the 2nd Earth. That's why Science thinks the Bible is wrong. That's God's Truth. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

Okay, Aman, thank you.