Why are some Christians anti Evolution?

[SkyWriting]

If a gene allows the species to propagate successfully, its survival is ensured.

The odds of it's survival improve.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

If you think God is a control freak, can you illustrate your belief with examples?

I refer you to the bible, particularly the OT.

 

[SkyWriting]

"Almost no understanding"? What? We have almost no understanding of gravity? No, no, no, I can't let that slide. Einstein's theory of general relativity explained all we need to know in great detail.

Well, that didn't cover it. Space is bent, so we have gravity?
I'm not sure we all get that.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Specifically, "I the Lord am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation" (Exodus 20). Also @FrumiousBandersnatch take a read through Ezekiel 16 and Ezekiel 23. Warning, the two chapters are sexually explicit, but it's the Bible after all so I'm sure I can cite them here, lol.

Been there, done that (a long time ago).

 

[Hans Blaster]

I think Gravity is one of the stronger arguments for a God. It's obvious everywhere with almost no understanding of it.

How does the curving of spacetime by mass-energy make an argument for a god? (I know how it makes a black hole -- are those gods?)

 

[SkyWriting]

@FrumiousBandersnatch Apologies for the confusion, I got mixed up and thought you were the person arguing God is not a control freak. Ironically, reading all of the Bible is how we become atheists

God has no reason to change or interfere with the laws of nature. Because He created them, they don't need to be changed.

 

[AV1611VET]

Ironically, reading all of the Bible is how we become atheists

I'm going to disagree on that.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

@FrumiousBandersnatch Apologies for the confusion, I got mixed up and thought you were the person arguing God is not a control freak. Ironically, reading all of the Bible is how we become atheists

And reading more than just the whole Bible is how some of us attempt to remain Christian.

Of course, I'm going to suppose that just a pinch of prayer helps in this regard as well.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Agreed, this was Spinoza's devastating argument against miracles. A miracle, being an interference with nature, would be God violating his own system, which is incoherent as a concept.

I don't know that I'd call Spinoza's argument "devastating." It's just an argument, one of many out there.

I think you need to get off of the Jerry Coyne train track.

Listen to these mind-boggling 2010 statistics: In the U.S., 57% of Protestants can name the four gospels. 55% of Catholics know their tradition teaches that sacramental bread and wine become Christ’s body and blood. 53% of Protestants cannot identify Luther as the person who started the Protestant Reformation. But on Pew's religious knowledge survey, atheists/agnostics scored highest, then Jews: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey Black protestants and Hispanic Catholics score lowest, which is unsurprising as they are generally the most devout.

What about more recently, 2019? Here's this: What Americans Know About Religion Interestingly, Jews scored higher than atheists here, but atheists were second on religious knowledge. Other interesting stats: Mormons were third in 2010, but dropped quite a lot. And in this, black protestants scored noticeably lower than "nothing in particular."

By the way, you can go to that website to take the quiz yourself so you know exactly what the questions were.

Here's the fact: Atheists know more about religion than religious people. The Bible is, for most Christians, like a software license (EULA): nobody reads it. They just scroll down to the bottom and hit I Agree.

All this implies is that Christians are human beings, subject to the cultural forces of the society in which they live in. Why would we expect an across the board level of high aptitude among any kind of human beings, religious or not?

Personally, I don't.

 

[AV1611VET]

Listen to these mind-boggling 2010 statistics: In the U.S., 57% of Protestants can name the four gospels.

Neat.

How many academians can name the four laws of thermodynamics?

55% of Catholics know their tradition teaches that sacramental bread and wine become Christ’s body and blood.

Did ... did you just say "tradition"?

I'm sure you meant "sacrament"?

53% of Protestants cannot identify Luther as the person who started the Protestant Reformation.

Far out.

What percent of academians can identify Gregor Mendel as the father of genetics?

What about more recently, 2019?

Look, my friend.

Here's what you're overlooking: Bible prophecy unfolding before your very eyes.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

And I'm sure you won't see, because you have that academic caption: QUESTION EVERYTHING.

 

[Bradskii]

Agreed, this was Spinoza's devastating argument against miracles. A miracle, being an interference with nature, would be God violating his own system, which is incoherent as a concept.

Listen to these mind-boggling 2010 statistics: In the U.S., 57% of Protestants can name the four gospels. 55% of Catholics know their tradition teaches that sacramental bread and wine become Christ’s body and blood. 53% of Protestants cannot identify Luther as the person who started the Protestant Reformation. But on Pew's religious knowledge survey, atheists/agnostics scored highest, then Jews: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey Black protestants and Hispanic Catholics score lowest, which is unsurprising as they are generally the most devout.

What about more recently, 2019? Here's this: What Americans Know About Religion Interestingly, Jews scored higher than atheists here, but atheists were second on religious knowledge. Other interesting stats: Mormons were third in 2010, but dropped quite a lot. And in this, black protestants scored noticeably lower than "nothing in particular."

By the way, you can go to that website to take the quiz yourself so you know exactly what the questions were.

Here's the fact: Atheists know more about religion than religious people. The Bible is, for most Christians, like a software license (EULA): nobody reads it. They just scroll down to the bottom and hit I Agree.

One of the links you gave took me to a quiz with 15 questions and I got 14 right. Out of all the questions that were asked in the other (which showed the correct answers), I would have got 4 wrong. Jewish sabbath, saving Jews by appealing to the king, Rosh Hashana and the % of Jews in the US. And darn it, the are quite a few synagogues within walking distance...

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I think it's the strongest argument, as it doesn't appeal to science but to philosophy/theology. By the way, I find Coyne's book Faith versus Fact pathetic, if that's what you're referencing.

Ok. I'm glad to hear that you find Coyne's book pathetic. I find it faulty probably for some of the same reasons that you do. But as for Spinoza, we'd have to get into the finer details that you're referring to in order to see just how "devastating" his critique is. Of course, I haven't read everything Spinoza has written, so I might have a nice surprise to mull over if I find something he's said that provides a real challenge epistemologically.

Your explanation still doesn't address why secular people score higher. It makes sense Jews score high, since many of them are very secular. Now, I don't think these scores are high. No, they're pitiful. And my score was not great either, certainly. We need more religious education across the board. But at least atheists are getting there.

I haven't given an explanation really, and I try to refrain from writing long posts. But if I was to give a more sociological explanation, it'd center on the fact that the U.S. has traditionally been an anti-intellectual society on the whole, with one of the aspects of that tradition emanating from American driven interpretations of the Bible from its more experiential and emotional adherents.

 

[Astrid]

Agreed, this was Spinoza's devastating argument against miracles. A miracle, being an interference with nature, would be God violating his own system, which is incoherent as a concept.

Listen to these mind-boggling 2010 statistics: In the U.S., 57% of Protestants can name the four gospels. 55% of Catholics know their tradition teaches that sacramental bread and wine become Christ’s body and blood. 53% of Protestants cannot identify Luther as the person who started the Protestant Reformation. But on Pew's religious knowledge survey, atheists/agnostics scored highest, then Jews: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey Black protestants and Hispanic Catholics score lowest, which is unsurprising as they are generally the most devout.

What about more recently, 2019? Here's this: What Americans Know About Religion Interestingly, Jews scored higher than atheists here, but atheists were second on religious knowledge. Other interesting stats: Mormons were third in 2010, but dropped quite a lot. And in this, black protestants scored noticeably lower than "nothing in particular."

By the way, you can go to that website to take the quiz yourself so you know exactly what the questions were.

Here's the fact: Atheists know more about religion than religious people. The Bible is, for most Christians, like a software license (EULA): nobody reads it. They just scroll down to the bottom and hit I Agree.

Next- who knows most / least about science

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Agreed. Second Great Awakening shows this very clearly.

Yep.

 

[Bradskii]

How many academians can name the four laws of thermodynamics?

I think if my grandson was told that they're zero(th), first, second and third, he'd always remember them. As would anyone who could count to 4. But it seems 4 names are too many for most protestants to remember. Maybe they think that Luthors given name was Lex.

 

[AV1611VET]

One of the links you gave took me to a quiz with 15 questions and I got 14 right.

13 here.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Next- who knows most / least about science

I'll be the first to admit that there's a whole host of people who know a whole lot more about science than I'll ever know, which is one of the reasons I promote education.

 

[AV1611VET]

I think if my grandson was told that they're zero(th), first, second and third, he'd always remember them. As would anyone who could count to 4. But it seems 4 names are too many for most protestants to remember. Maybe they think that Luthors given name was Lex.

 

[Astrid]

.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Did ... did you just say "tradition"?

I'm sure you meant "sacrament"?

No, they meant "tradition". Tradition is a somewhat less common term for denomination or sect or branch with in a larger religion. Transsubstantiation (sp) is a doctrine within the Catholic tradition.

The notion of "traditions" is also useful for things that overlap sometimes. For example the Baptist, Calvanist, and Charismatic traditions all influence the practice and theology of many denominations or even individual churches.

[BTW, what's with you guys getting anything wrong on that quiz? ]