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Why are some Christians anti Evolution?

Astrid

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The Bible is God's Word as He, Himself claims and blesses! Just try reading the book of John without bias... just examine it's message and keep in mind the one writing it was with Jesus when He came into flesh!

I did read it, here in Hong Kong, being curious what Christianity
is about.
One raised as a Christian is incapable of that kind of unbiased approach.

I know the stories. I know the things people say about it.

I also know that nobody can demonstrate word one of any
supernatural event to be true, while many cited in the bible
( flood, say) are very obviously not factually correct.

Extreme bias x lack of knowledge may lead some to insist
that the world did go underwater for a year, of course

I dont know where you stand on such, and you did not say I am biased.

Just saying how i see things, being one who like those from
missouri say, " show me".
 
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Astrid

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The Bible is God's Word as He, Himself claims and blesses! Just try reading the book of John without bias... just examine it's message and keep in mind the one writing it was with Jesus when He came into flesh!
I missed the passage when i read the bible.

Where does it directly state that it is Gods word?

All of it? If not, what is or isnt?
 
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hedrick

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This has been hinted at by several postings, but there are a couple of serious consequences.

1) If evolution is true, most likely Genesis 1 - 3 are not historical. There are various arguments about how a day may be an age, but in fact most people who accept evolution take Gen 1 - 3 at face value, and think they’re wrong, at least as history. But the moment you accept that the Bible may be wrong, there are other questions: Modern archaeologists generally don’t think anything before maybe the time of the kings is accurate. In specific, the Exodus as described didn’t happen. In fact the current understanding is that the people who became Israel largely originated in the hill country in Palestine, and moved into the cities slowly and mostly without major conflict. Once you start thinking that the Bible might be a human book describing God’s interactions with us from our perspective, anything in it might be wrong.

That is very troubling to many people. It seems safer to hold the line, and claim that the whole Bible is accurate in everything it says.

2) In a lot of theology, particularly popular Protestant theology, Jesus is the answer to a specific problem: We are fallen people, due to Adam’s sin. We inherit at least a fallen nature, if not actual guilt from Adam’s sin, and are thus unacceptable to God. We need salvation if we are to avoid hell. That’s what Christ is for. Without the Fall, Christ’s death seems pointless, since the problem it is designed to fix isn’t there.

Evolution probably destroys the Fall. Catholics have at times tried to say that even though we evolved, at some point a specific pair sinned, and all modern people are descendants of them. But this seems unlikely. There’s also the problem that it’s unlikely that our pre-human ancestors were sinless, which makes the whole Gen 3 narrative fall apart.

———————

I think once we accept scientific and historical evidence, there are serious challenges to a lot of Christian theology. I don’t think it challenges what Jesus was actually trying to do, but it certainly makes a lot of traditional theology hard.

I don’t see Jesus saying that everyone starts out as unacceptable to God. He saw lost sheep, who have to repent. But OT theology in general saw Jews as part of the covenant. When they sinned they needed to repent, but they didn’t start out damned. Later Jewish thought became more inclusive of non-Jews, and I think Jesus followed that approach.

The problem with this is once you don’t think people start out damned you have to ask what Jesus’ death was about. At that point you have to look at the atonement. Traditional Protestant theology takes one view of Jesus’ death, that he took the punishment that was due to us, and without it we would have to be punished ourselves with hell. But historically this wasn’t the only or even the earliest idea. Before Augustine’s time, Christians didn’t necessarily think everyone started off damned. Other ideas of Christ’s death ranged from it being an inspiration to it being a trick that caused Satan to overstep his bounds (by taking an innocent life) and lose his rights.

If you take seriously the idea that Christ was God made flesh, we might consider the idea that his death for us makes visible the character that God always had. He always loved us, and was always willing to go to extremes to help us, even if in loving us he suffered with us and on our behalf.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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So what point do you wish to make?
Something about "crossover", (whatever you
may mean by that)?
Crossing different species to make another. Like ape to man. We have an ape and we have a human, Darwinism makes a link thus there is a crossover animal to human. That link has yet to be found.
 
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AV1611VET

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I did read it, here in Hong Kong, being curious what Christianity is about.
You can thank that Christian missionary whom God called to translate His word into your language too; instead of contesting It.
 
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Sorn

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NBB

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I am trying to work out an approach that could satisfy a Christian religious belief and ToE.
I agree with you that our physical form has a major impact on our mental capacity, our behaviours etc. In fact as an atheist, I don't consider our mental capacity to be anything different from a manifestation of our physiology.

BUT, going with the Christian position (of which I know very little), wouldn't it be possible that the god chooses a species (any species) at a time when it has evolved sufficiently to be able to host such an "image". And so, maybe evolution was directionless, merely adapting to changing environments but not seeking a specific form as a goal, and when the patient and timeless god thought the form was sufficient, then the god "created" the human soul????

No, we are as God, the same as him without certain things of him of course, evolution can't come up with that, its simple really, and so obvious and things that people take for granted, we are made in the image of God because we are persons, God gets angry we get angry, God can love someone we can love someone, God thinks stuff, we think stuff, etc the list is endless.

Also the soul works closely with our bodies, its not some 'spiritual smoke' there only.
 
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AV1611VET

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I missed the passage when I read the bible.

Where does it directly state that it is Gods word?
I thought you said you know the Bible better than most Christians?

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.


And notice here ...

Matthew 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?


... where Jesus quotes from both Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 as Scripture?
 
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Tinker Grey

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No, we are as God, the same as him without certain things of him of course, evolution can't come up with that
It can come up with that if an omnipotent, omniscient god intended evolution to come up with it.
 
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AV1611VET

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It can come up with that if an omnipotent, omniscient god intended evolution to come up with it.
That's true.

But this was His method of choice:

Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
 
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ottawak

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Let's not ignore natural selection and it's logical conclusion , "macroeveloution". This is where the cross over begins. The apes to humans theory.
That's not a "crossover," merely a new branch on an existing limb.
 
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ottawak

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The Bible is God's Word as He, Himself claims and blesses! Just try reading the book of John without bias... just examine it's message and keep in mind the one writing it was with Jesus when He came into flesh!
Try reading it without the bias of Sola Scriptura and biblical literalism.
 
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ottawak

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Oh boy...if animals have souls, where did they come from? If they didn't evolve (since you buy into evolution) then there's no reason to believe that they do anything but go back to the dirt.
Christian theologians have long maintained that animals have souls according to their nature, but not immortal souls. See, for example, St. Thomas Aquinas on the subject.
 
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Astrid

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This has been hinted at by several postings, but there are a couple of serious consequences.

1) If evolution is true, most likely Genesis 1 - 3 are not historical. There are various arguments about how a day may be an age, but in fact most people who accept evolution take Gen 1 - 3 at face value, and think they’re wrong, at least as history. But the moment you accept that the Bible may be wrong, there are other questions: Modern archaeologists generally don’t think anything before maybe the time of the kings is accurate. In specific, the Exodus as described didn’t happen. In fact the current understanding is that the people who became Israel largely originated in the hill country in Palestine, and moved into the cities slowly and mostly without major conflict. Once you start thinking that the Bible might be a human book describing God’s interactions with us from our perspective, anything in it might be wrong.

That is very troubling to many people. It seems safer to hold the line, and claim that the whole Bible is accurate in everything it says.

2) In a lot of theology, particularly popular Protestant theology, Jesus is the answer to a specific problem: We are fallen people, due to Adam’s sin. We inherit at least a fallen nature, if not actual guilt from Adam’s sin, and are thus unacceptable to God. We need salvation if we are to avoid hell. That’s what Christ is for. Without the Fall, Christ’s death seems pointless, since the problem it is designed to fix isn’t there.

Evolution probably destroys the Fall. Catholics have at times tried to say that even though we evolved, at some point a specific pair sinned, and all modern people are descendants of them. But this seems unlikely. There’s also the problem that it’s unlikely that our pre-human ancestors were sinless, which makes the whole Gen 3 narrative fall apart.

———————

I think once we accept scientific and historical evidence, there are serious challenges to a lot of Christian theology. I don’t think it challenges what Jesus was actually trying to do, but it certainly makes a lot of traditional theology hard.

I don’t see Jesus saying that everyone starts out as unacceptable to God. He saw lost sheep, who have to repent. But OT theology in general saw Jews as part of the covenant. When they sinned they needed to repent, but they didn’t start out damned. Later Jewish thought became more inclusive of non-Jews, and I think Jesus followed that approach.

The problem with this is once you don’t think people start out damned you have to ask what Jesus’ death was about. At that point you have to look at the atonement. Traditional Protestant theology takes one view of Jesus’ death, that he took the punishment that was due to us, and without it we would have to be punished ourselves with hell. But historically this wasn’t the only or even the earliest idea. Before Augustine’s time, Christians didn’t necessarily think everyone started off damned. Other ideas of Christ’s death ranged from it being an inspiration to it being a trick that caused Satan to overstep his bounds (by taking an innocent life) and lose his rights.

If you take seriously the idea that Christ was God made flesh, we might consider the idea that his death for us makes visible the character that God always had. He always loved us, and was always willing to go to extremes to help us, even if in loving us he suffered with us and on our behalf.
Of course...
But, so-?
 
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Astrid

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Astrid

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Crossing different species to make another. Like ape to man. We have an ape and we have a human, Darwinism makes a link thus there is a crossover animal to human. That link has yet to be found.

No. Everything but the spelling is wrong
 
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