No it doesn't. Now you are spewing lies when I told you plainly it doesn't and showed you multiple times through scripture. What's the matter with you?
its called indoctrination
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No it doesn't. Now you are spewing lies when I told you plainly it doesn't and showed you multiple times through scripture. What's the matter with you?
And I do too. Because death is eternal punishment. Glad we can finally agree. Most born-again Christian, myself included, believe in eternal punishment which is death. And less people believe in universalism and eternal torment because they aren't biblical at all.
Unfortunately it is not possible to accept as credible everyone who claims they are born-again and have prayed about something.
I have found it very helpful to actually read a post before trying to respond to it. Now in addition to empty hollering you are into making judgments and and false accusations. I never said or implied that I had any authority to judge anyone whether they had or had not done anything or that God had had/had not heard or approved them.So......
Now it comes to the place where you claim to have authority to judge whether a person is saved or not, whether they've prayed properly or not, whether God has heard them or not, whether they are approved by God or not.
You must be a lot of fun at parties......
I never said or implied otherwise. You are still misrepresenting what I said.hollerin' said:Let's try to get it straight buddy. God means to put a permanent end to SIN. Once and for all it will stop.
More misrepresentation. I have never said or implied that sin was eternal but scripture certainly says that the fire is eternal. Matthew 18:8, Mark 9:45, Jude 1:7, Nor have I ever implied that I'm a big fan of Satan. In fact I cannot remember the last time I even mentioned Satan.Hollerin said:You are very good at writing an apologetic for hell and eternal SIN, despite clear Biblical evidence that God means to put an end to it. I wonder who's side you're really on? I'm not making any declarations here mind you, but your words sound an awful lot like someone who's a big fan of satan and doesn't want his game to stop.
What? There is more than one death... The bible even talks about the second death. There is the death of the physical body, and after that resurrection of the soul happens. And then there is the death of the soul, which happens in the lake of fire.if death is eternal then there is no such thing as the resurrection of the dead. think about it.
.. but I am here to show you pure biblical evidence where God clearly states the punishment for sin is death.
The early church fathers wrote about hell a thousand or so years before there was a "catholic church" to influence or change anything.A lot of people are just scared of the truth. The devil works in very sneaky ways. Because they have been so brainwashed by their pastors and worldly teachings their ultimate defense is rejecting the truth and labeling those who preach the truth as false teachers. That is all the devil's doing. It is too comfortable for them so they don't dig deeper, even though all of us Christians SHOULD be digging deep into scripture during these end times when mass deception is occurring News flash guys, not every popular teaching is biblical and true. I can tell you this, I do not have all the answers. I do not even have most of the answers. But I DEFINITELY know God confirmed this revelation to me of the truth of death being the punishment, and I looked at scripture to back it up to make sure it was God telling me that. And it turns out it was and it made perfect sense. At any rate, this is NOT a salvation issue by any means. I just think it is more comforting knowing the truth rather than believing a lie that was set up by the early catholic church for the very purpose to keep people out of the faith. I always knew there was something extremely funky about the doctrine of eternal torture chamber, people make fun of Christianity for that very reason and before I got saved even I knew it was a ridiculous concept. It just makes no sense at all and I think all of you know it isn't true but are scared to accept to it. I mean if you truly believe without a doubt that the majority of God's creation (remember the path to life is a narrow way and few will find it meaning the majority of the population will perish in hell) will be in torment for ETERNITY then you must have some psychological problem.... Even believing one evil person will suffer that fate is hard, but to think the majority of his creation (remember the path to life is narrow and few will find it) will suffer for eternity is downright impossible for any sane human being.
The early church fathers wrote about hell a thousand or so years before there was a "catholic church" to influence or change anything.
And 100s of years before and during the time of jesus and the disciples among the Jews there was a belief in a place of fiery, eternal punishment for the wicked and they called it both "Ge himnom" and Sheol."
GEHENNA - JewishEncyclopedia.com
Jesus never taught there was a second death.
This appears to be a common ploy with universalists. Go to Tentmakers, which I refer to as "tents-r-us," copy/paste a bunch of stuff, post a bunch of links which often do not specifically address anything in the post they are responding to.FineLinen said:post #1150 What the Church teaches -Chapter 4 of Christ Triumphant-...
Who are Andrew Jukes and Thomas Allin that we should care what they wrote? Do either of them have any expertise pertaining to this topic?
Before I begin I want to say that I am in no way one of those people who believe in annihilation to please my flesh or rely on my own understanding to make myself feel better.... "
I have struggled with the idea for some 2 years. It was hell to believe God would torture most people i know without end or outcome, for ever and ever, because He did not draw them towards Him.A lot of people are just scared of the truth. The devil works in very sneaky ways. Because they have been so brainwashed by their pastors and worldly teachings their ultimate defense is rejecting the truth and labeling those who preach the truth as false teachers. That is all the devil's doing. It is too comfortable for them so they don't dig deeper, even though all of us Christians SHOULD be digging deep into scripture during these end times when mass deception is occurring News flash guys, not every popular teaching is biblical and true. I can tell you this, I do not have all the answers. I do not even have most of the answers. But I DEFINITELY know God confirmed this revelation to me of the truth of death being the punishment, and I looked at scripture to back it up to make sure it was God telling me that. And it turns out it was and it made perfect sense. At any rate, this is NOT a salvation issue by any means.
Or rather ensIaved to the church...I just think it is more comforting knowing the truth rather than believing a lie that was set up by the early catholic church for the very purpose to keep people out of the faith.
People hate God for it. And i.mh.o. rightfully so.always knew there was something extremely funky about the doctrine of eternal torture chamber, people make fun of Christianity for that very reason and before I got saved even I knew it was a ridiculous concept.
We should never choose to belittle or be against people or words or ideas they have but rather we should be FOR truth & seek to do all things in Love & only be stern when needed with a heavy heart of Love and greater burden to seek to Love & understand more. It is enough to be for and speak the truth without having to be against or tear down what we do not agree with. God cares about what they have wrote and said and they themselves and the one quoting them, and so do I.Shep: with your vast knowledge of the Jewish Ency. it is beyond my old life to grasp you do not know the calibre of Andrew Jukes. In an attempt to keep you informed I will present some of his work.
books by andrew jukes - Google Search
Andrew Jukes "scribblings"
Andrew Jukes
The lake of fire is the 2nd death.if death is eternal then there is no such thing as the resurrection of the dead. think about it.
It is good you have learned the truth and as we all will we will learn more and more on each matter. As to slandering or accrediting Catholics for such things, let us consider that we are not to judge /attribute whole groups with things like this... it becomes slander and prejudice. Catholics are not the cause of wrong doctrines but demons are as the scripture says. I've known plenty of Catholics and was one myself who do not believe these things.Let us say " the lies certain people choose to believe or merely state the truth and let God convict of it. Anything more and we may fall into sin and forget we are just messengers (suppose to be messengers of Grace and Known for Love).I have struggled with the idea for some 2 years. It was hell to believe God would torture most people i know without end or outcome, for ever and ever, because He did not draw them towards Him.
I hated Him for it, which means i would end up there too.
Finally i found answers and proper Bible exegesis refuting the traditional doctrine. Or rather ensIaved to the church... People hate God for it. And i.mh.o. rightfully so.
Perfect doctrine to chase away kind hearted people and draw people who like the idea AND consider themselves saved.
I'm not blaming Catholic members of the flock, but the Catholic institution (in this case, atlhough centuries ago), or any organized 'Christian' religion that spreads false teachings.It is good you have learned the truth and as we all will we will learn more and more on each matter. As to slandering or accrediting Catholics for such things, let us consider that we are not to judge /attribute whole groups with things like this... it becomes slander and prejudice. Catholics are not the cause of wrong doctrines but demons are as the scripture says. I've known plenty of Catholics and was one myself who do not believe these things.Let us say " the lies certain people to choose to believe or merely state the truth and let god convict of it. Anything more and we may fall into sin and forget we are just messengers 9suppose to be messengers of Grace and Known for Love).
We should never choose to belittle or be against people or words or ideas they have. We should only seek to do all things in Love & only be stern when needed with a heavy heart of Love and greater burden to seek to Love & understand more. It is enough to be for and speak the truth without having to be against or tear down what we do not agree with. God cares about what they have wrote and said and they themselves and the one quoting them, and so do I.
No one needs to prove anything, either. The proof is already there. We believe it or receive it or we may we reject it, however, we may one day see differently. God will make it clear, but we must Love one another first and foremost in our speech, deeds and hearts.