Why are so many Christians against annihilation in hell when scripture supports it?

[DM25]

Then you clearly haven’t read the Bible or this thread. Here is one mention of eternal punishment: Matthew 25:31-46

Aaand there it is. You obviously didn't read my post. Eternal punishment does not mean eternal torment. It means eternal punishment, and death is eternal punishment. If you disagree that death is punishment, that is your problem. But I believe what the bible says.

 

[DM25]

αἰώνιον κόλασιν = aiōnion kolasin = eternal punishment

I never denied it didn't mean eternal punishment. Eternal punishment is death, not torment.

 

[DM25]

No thanks. I don’t desire to partner in heresy.

Excuse me? I am a born-again Christian and I have prayed hard and did my research on this topic and you are calling it heresy? What is the matter with you? I'm beginning to think you are a troll who wants to defend eternal torment for your own agenda. You obviously are not making good arguments, calling the truth heresy. Ridiculous. Yeah because some of us go by the bible and don't believe in eternal torture chambers because we have the wisdom of the holy spirit, we are heretics. Good one.

 

[Solomon Smith]

Excuse me? I am a born-again Christian and I have prayed hard and did my research on this topic and you are calling it heresy? What is the matter with you? I'm beginning to think you are a troll who wants to defend eternal torment for your own agenda. You obviously are not making good arguments, calling the truth heresy. Ridiculous. Yeah because some of us go by the bible and don't believe in eternal torture chambers because we have the wisdom of the holy spirit, we are heretics. Good one.

No you’re heretics because you are teaching doctrine that is contrary to the orthodox teachings of the church.

 

[DM25]

I don't want my post to get lost again, so here it is. I hope you read it.

Ok can you guys PLEASE read my entire post here to see where I am coming from... I put a lot of effort making this post and sharing my personal revelation.

I can't keep track of this thread anymore because there have been so many new posts. But I think so many people have been completely indoctrinated by the false eternal torment teaching made by the early catholic church when the bible never directly mentioned it. And people have been so indoctrinated that they don't even realize death, being separated from God for eternity and not having life, is punishment. No one wants to die and if someone says they are fine with it they are not being honest with themselves. Being burned to death in the lake of fire is a just punishment by a just God.

So now we got the emotional stuff out of the way, how about we get into scripture and what it says? Give me some scripture where you think it says the wicked will be tormented for eternity and I will take it in delight. I will refute it without twisting anything. The word of God says what it says.


There is ONE verse that talks about being "tormented day and night forever and ever." and it literally says it will be for the devil.

Revelation 20:10
"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Even here according to the Greek translation forever and ever isn't literally translated to eternity, but let's just say it is for the sake of argument... It still doesn't prove wicked people will be tormented for eternity. Only the devil.



Now that we got that verse out of the way, which we can conclude is for the devil, there is not any other verse in the word of God that states the wicked's punishment is eternal torment. Here are a couple verses on the punishment itself (not the torment) being eternal:

Matthew 25:46
"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." - Matthew 25:46

I think it's pretty obvious death is a form of eternal punishment. If it isn't to you, well I don't know what to say to you... But I would much rather be alive and with God for eternity than punished to death for eternity. Death with no chance of ever coming back is not a good fate to have.

2 Thessalonians 1:9
These will pay the penalty of eternal DESTRUCTION, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Matthew 10:28
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can DESTROY both soul and body in hell." - good verse to those who think souls can't be destroyed. God made you and he can destroy you as well. This verse proves both the soul and the body can be destroyed.

We of course know the bible states "the wages of sin is death" numerous times too. As well as "The wicked will perish". You can find this all over scripture.




Now the lake of fire is where the wicked will be burned to death. There is a punishment there, that is not a fun way to die. There will also be torment there as the bible says. Nobody is denying hell isn't real and there won't be torment. I am simply stating eternal torment is a lie, not that torment itself before the wicked die. There will be pain and torment in hell as punishment along with death, nobody is denying that. But don't get it twisted, the unsaved will indeed die there in the lake of fire and that is the ultimate punishment. Here is one verse describing the torment:

Matthew 13:50
"and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."




Now let's get into the juicier verses.... The ones you guys have been waiting for. The ones that eternal torment people always use and think they win. However what you don't realize is even in these verses, it does not say the torment is eternal once. People can make an assumption that that's what it means, but that's only an assumption. It's not what scripture says directly. It does not say the punishment is eternal torment. These verses talk about the fire and the smoke. It says these will go on forever... Fire and smoke itself is different from torment. I believe the bible uses this to illustrate the eternal punishment and judgement for those who disobeyed him and that the punishment had eternal consequences, even though the individual torment ended. That's why the fire won't get put out, but the torment itself for the unsaved will end. Let's read it...

Mark 9:44-48
"where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED" - Keep in mind in this verse it talks about "their worms" dying not, meaning the bodies themselves will get completely consumed by the worms. These worms are actually references to the maggots in the dumpsters of Jerusalem. These worms can be eternal creatures, but I think it's simply metaphorical here describing the consumption of the wicked bodies in the lake of fire by the worms.

Jude 1:7
"In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire." - again, just says the fire is eternal but does not specifically say the punishment is eternal torment.

Revelation 14:11 King James Version (KJV)
"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." - A lot of people assume day or night means day or night forever. But it doesn't say that. It simply says no rest day or night while they get consumed and tormented in the lake of fire. It doesn't say that will happen eternally.

Mark 9:43
"If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out."

There are probably some more verses mentioning the same thing. But as you can see, it only shows the fire and smoke being eternal. If you look at the old testament, smoke is actually a metaphor for destruction. So just because the fire and smoke is not put out, does not mean the torment of the individual is eternal. The bible never says it is! Eternal fire and smoke in scripture does not mean eternal torment. Which again proves the ultimate punishment is eternal death.



In conclusion, I think this eternal torment teaching is without a doubt in my mind the BIGGEST lie that has been spread in the Christian faith by far. It is quite remarkably sad how big this became and how the truth is labeled as heresy now. It seems as if now only some can see it and are awake. It's difficult convincing people when they have been indoctrinated so long and have people from all corners promoting lies and labeling truth as bad. If you research it you can see the roots of this teaching came from the early catholic church. The motive? I think it's obvious... To prevent people coming to the faith through truth. If someone believes the faith teaches eternal torment by a just God, they will be way less likely to believe it and come to the faith and that's what satan wants, to push people away from God and truth. Remember the first lie satan told? That you shall not surely die? It all makes perfect sense now. But the truth is as we can see from scripture, God is just. Burning to death in the lake of fire and being separated from him for eternity by dying and having eternal death is a just punishment for those who rejected him, the one who gave them life. God is the one who gave people life, he is also the one who offered them to keep their lives through faith in Jesus Christ, so the natural consequence and punishment for rejecting him is to take away their lives, death is the most sensible conclusion. Can you see how it all fits together? God is life, the opposite of God is death. Everything makes sense now. I also did pray about it and God did give me the answer through a verse in scripture immediately after describing how the unrighteous will perish. It is pretty much confirmed to me now.

Please read my entire post. It took me an hour to write. If you have any questions or anything, feel free to ask. My eyes were opened a lot by this revelation.

 

[DM25]

No you’re heretics because you are teaching doctrine that is contrary to the orthodox teachings of the church.

Orthodox church has false teachings too like the catholic church. Orthodox church is also corrupt like the catholic church. I don't go by church teachings, I go by scripture. I also don't believe in denominations which cause division over quarrels of the law when we all should be in unity and one in Christ.

 

[Solomon Smith]

Orthodox church has false teachings too like the catholic church. Orthodox church is also corrupt like the catholic church. I don't go by church teachings, I go by scripture. I also don't believe in denominations which cause division over quarrels of the law when we all should be in unity and one in Christ.

You are the one who is not in unity. The majority of Christendom believes in eternal punishment.

Also: I said “orthodox teachings” and not Orthodox Church.

 

[ClementofA]

“While Catholic theologians, especially Augustine, thundered against Origenism, as it was called, universal salvation continued to have its advocates in their church as well as in other religious organizations that claimed to be Christian. It was taught by the Albigenses of the eleventh century, the Lollards of the fourteenth, and in the fifteenth century by many of “the Reformers before the Reformation.” Many were the clergy excommunicated, exiled or dismissed from their positions by religious organizations because of teaching universal salvation, in both Catholic and Protestant organizations.”

“In England, for a time during the seventeenth century, universal salvation was among the heresies punishable with imprisonment, other “heresies” being punished with death. About the same time in the United States, in the very religious colony of Massachusetts, one John Gatchell was sentenced “to the pillory and to have his tongue drawn forth and pierced with a hot iron” for teaching universal salvation.”

Does the Bible Teach Universal Salvation? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[Der Alte]

begin

<DM25>Excuse me? I am a born-again Christian and I have prayed hard and did my research on this topic and you are calling it heresy? What is the matter with you? I'm beginning to think you are a troll who wants to defend eternal torment for your own agenda. You obviously are not making good arguments, calling the truth heresy. Ridiculous. Yeah because some of us go by the bible and don't believe in eternal torture chambers because we have the wisdom of the holy spirit, we are heretics. Good one.<end>

end

Unfortunately it is not possible to accept as credible everyone who claims they are born-again and have prayed about something. There are lots of folks around who make the same claim, e.g. LDS, JW, WWCG, UU, OP, UPCI, INC to mention only a few. They can't all be right but they can all be wrong.
.....Jesus is quoted in the NT as using the word for "death" seventeen times. When Jesus meant "death" he said "death." The Sadduccees did not believe in the resurrection. They would have known that everyone dies; men, women, old, young, righteous, unrighteous, children, infants and they knew that it was permanent. What would they have understood when Jesus said "eternal punishment?"
…..Concerning “punishment” one early church father, a native Greek speaker, wrote,

“‘Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4​

…..According to three irrefutable Jewish sources; the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud, quoted below, among the Jews in Israel before and during the time of Jesus there was a belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom. This is the society that Jesus and His disciples were born and grew up in
…..Disclaimer: There were different groups within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and there were different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. That there were other beliefs does not rebut, refute, change or disprove anything in this post.

Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);​

[Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT any supposed bias of Christian translators. DA]

(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b).All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).
… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [ שׁאול /Sheol]] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according to Isa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).
Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.
=================
Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.
…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.. Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Gehinnom
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[/b][Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more. Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.​

When Jesus taught about e.g.,

• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24
• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12​

These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned the existing Jewish view of eternal hell, outlined above. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a punishment worse than death or nonexistence. A punishment worse than death without mercy is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​

…..Jesus undoubtedly knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong, why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment,” etc. to Jews who believed, "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which only reinforced those beliefs.

 

[Der Alte]

“While Catholic theologians, especially Augustine, thundered against Origenism, as it was called, universal salvation continued to have its advocates in their church as well as in other religious organizations that claimed to be Christian. It was taught by the Albigenses of the eleventh century, the Lollards of the fourteenth, and in the fifteenth century by many of “the Reformers before the Reformation.” Many were the clergy excommunicated, exiled or dismissed from their positions by religious organizations because of teaching universal salvation, in both Catholic and Protestant organizations.”
“In England, for a time during the seventeenth century, universal salvation was among the heresies punishable with imprisonment, other “heresies” being punished with death. About the same time in the United States, in the very religious colony of Massachusetts, one John Gatchell was sentenced “to the pillory and to have his tongue drawn forth and pierced with a hot iron” for teaching universal salvation.”
Does the Bible Teach Universal Salvation? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Do you honestly think that the main publication of the Jehovah's Witnesses is a credible source?

 

[ClementofA]

Do you honestly think that the main publication of the Jehovah's Witnesses is a credible source?

Would it disturb you if what i quoted is completely accurate?

 

[ClementofA]

<
…According to three irrefutable Jewish sources; the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud,

What makes them "irrefutable"? Is that like a pontiff who is "infallible"? Are the Jews right, according to you, that Jesus is not the Messiah?

 

[ClementofA]

.....One of the beliefs held by the Jews at the time of Jesus was "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," Judith xvi. 17. The book of Judith was written before the birth of Jesus and was included in the Septuagint.

How do you know that is translated correctly? Where is your evidence for such an unsubstantiated opinion that that was "One of the beliefs held by the Jews at the time of Jesus"? How many Jews believed that? What were the other beliefs on the subject & how many Jews believed each of them? Were they the same beliefs of the Pharisees?

Jesus said to beware of the teaching of the Pharisees:

"Jesus warned His disciples to “watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducee's,” which was their false teaching (Matt. 16:6,12)."

"Not giving heed to Jewish myths, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth." (Titus 1:14).

Jesus said re the Pharisees: "...in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men." (Mt.15:8-9)

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Tim.3:16)

Jesus, speaking to Pharisees, said:

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

2 Timothy 4:4: And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Clearly the opinions of the anti-Christian Jews were wrong about the Messiah in their rejection of Jesus Christ. So why should they be right what you quoted them saying?

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism

 

[ClementofA]

….
…..According to three irrefutable Jewish sources;

But here is what Jesus Himself says,
• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these [on the left] shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"

Let us look at this verse again:

"And these shall go away into eternal (aiōnios) punishment: but the righteous into life eternal (aiōnios)" (Mt.25:26).​

Since the structure of this verse is best described as being a "parallelism" then the Greek word aiōnios must carry with it the same meaning in both instances where it is used.

Then, by the same reasoning, the "parallel" in Rom.5:19 proves Scriptural universalism to be true:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

1 Cor.15:22 AS in Adam ALL die SO ALSO in Christ shall ALL be made alive.

1 Cor.15:28 And when ALL shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put ALL under him, that God may be all in ALL.

Col.1:16 For by Him ***ALL*** was created that are in HEAVEN and that are on EARTH, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All was created through Him and for Him.
20 and by Him to reconcile ***ALL*** to Himself, by Him, whether on EARTH or in HEAVEN, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

And your translation of Mt.25:46 contradicts this translation of Lamentations 3:

Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.

While these translations (& others) of Mt.25:46 are in harmony with all the verses above i have posted:

The New Testament: A Translation, by Eastern Orthodox scholar David Bentley Hart, 2017, Yale Press):
"And these shall go to the chastening of that Age, but the just to the life of that Age."

Youngs Literal Translation of the Holy Bible, 1898:
"And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during."

Emphatic Diaglott, 1942 edition
"And these shall go forth to the aionian 1 cutting-off; but the RIGHTEOUS to aionian Life."

Concordant Literal New Testament, 1983
And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."

Rotherham Emphasized Bible, 1959
"And these shall go away into age-abiding correction, But the righteous into age-abiding life."

 

[DM25]

You are the one who is not in unity. The majority of Christendom believes in eternal punishment.

Also: I said “orthodox teachings” and not Orthodox Church.

Uh that's wrong though. Most true born-again Christians know the punishment is death. Even if they didn't, not every popular teaching is true. But most people agree with it. At any case, this is NOT a salvation issue. I respect your view because we are saved by grace through faith alone, not interpretations on scripture. I just wish you weren't so rude about it. I explained my argument as well as I can.

 

[Solomon Smith]

Most true born-again Christians know the punishment is death.

No. There are 2.4 billion Christians in the world and the majority of them believe in eternal punishment.

 

[DM25]

No. There are 2.4 billion Christians in the world and the majority of them believe in eternal punishment.

And I do too. Because death is eternal punishment. Glad we can finally agree. Most born-again Christian, myself included, believe in eternal punishment which is death. And less people believe in universalism and eternal torment because they aren't biblical at all.

 

[DM25]

No. There are 2.4 billion Christians in the world and the majority of them believe in eternal punishment.

And I do too. Because death is eternal punishment. Glad we can finally agree. Most born-again Christian, myself included, believe in eternal punishment which is death. And less people believe in universalism and eternal torment because they aren't biblical at all.

 

[ClementofA]

No. There are 2.4 billion Christians in the world and the majority of them believe in eternal punishment.

Did they have a vote on that? Or are you just guessing?

How many are well informed of, & have studied, universalist & annihilationist arguments? Do many simply blindly accept what their pastor, priest, or denomination say?

In the enlightened internet age is the belief in endless torments on the decline as many become annihilationists, universalists or hopeful universalists instead.

In the early church universalism was the orthodox (biblical) view & may have been the orthodox (majority) view for centuries (see urls below) prior to the dark ages. Hopeful &/or convinced universalism may be the majority view today, or be on the way to becoming so.

Early Church Writings Fathers:

Church Fathers & Universalism since Early Church times

Indeed Very Many: Universalism in the Early Church

Early church writings re final destiny (paradise, Gospel, incarnation, Jehovah) - Christianity - - City-Data Forum

Articles on the history of Christian Universalism throughout the centuries
https://s3.amazonaws.com/unsearchablerich/booksonwebsite/©CPC+The+Ancient+History+of+Universalism.pdf

Universalism...First 500 Years

 

[Pneuma3]

I’m pointing you to a Pastor because you don’t understand Jesus and you need someone who can explain things to you.