Why are so many Christians against annihilation in hell when scripture supports it?

Gr8Grace

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When God wants fire to not destroy or harm something then it does not harm or destroy. God is not constrained by any physical or any other kind of limitations which man is subject to.

Revelation 20:10
(10) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [who is a human being] are, and [they do not die but] shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.



This is exactly why we have Paul pointing out that the WICKED are resurrected.
Acts 24~~15having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

They have a resurrection body fit for torment......day and night forever and ever.

There is no easy way out. He paid an eternal price. The price unbelievers pay is eternal.​
 
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SarahsKnight

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There is no easy way out. He paid an eternal price. The price unbelievers pay is eternal.

That's what really gets me. Apparently for traditionalists death by fire is too "easy" for the unbelievers. Sounds to me like if it wasn't for the threat of eternal torment the traditionalists who make this argument wouldn't bother to believe and love God. Shows where their hearts and attitudes are in my opinion.

It doesn't matter that there is a resurrection of the unjust along with the just to be judged. What does Jesus Himself say in the gospels? He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Seriously, people, how hard is it?
 
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Gr8Grace

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Shows where their hearts and attitudes are in my opinion.
From your previous posts.... I thought it was suppose to be me accusing you of this?

The Lord Jesus Christ paid an eternal price for ALL. So unbelievers pay eternal wages for rejecting what He ETERNALLY DID DO for them.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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It doesn't matter that there is a resurrection of the unjust along with the just to be judged. What does Jesus Himself say in the gospels? He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
This is important.
It is God's Word.
It does matter.
God's Word is Truth.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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That's what really gets me. Apparently for traditionalists death by fire is too "easy" for the unbelievers. Sounds to me like if it wasn't for the threat of eternal torment the traditionalists who make this argument wouldn't bother to believe and love God. Shows where their hearts and attitudes are in my opinion.
So ?
 
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Der Alte

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In Scripture though, in English, "forever" is not as expected.
The translations are confusing people daily.
What is confusing people are heterodox folks like yourself arguing about the meaning of Greek words when most don't know the first thing about Greek.
Here is a little study I did on the word αἰώνιος/aionios in the NT. In twenty two [22] of the following verses αἰών/aion and αἰώνιος/aionios are defined/described as eternal, everlasting etc, by comparison or contrast with other adjectives or adjectival phrases.

1 Timothy 1:17, 2 Corinthians 4:17-18, 2 Corinthians 5:1, Hebrews 7:24, 1 Peter 1:23, 1 Timothy 6:16, Galatians 6:8, John 6:58, John 10:20, 1 John 2:17, 1 Peter 5:10, Romans 2:7, Luke 1:33, Revelation 14:11, John 10:28, John 3:15, John 3:16, John 5:24, John 8:51, Ephesians 3:21, Romans 1:20, Romans 5:21, Romans 16:26.
…..In the NT “aion/aionios” refer to things which are not eternal but neither word is ever defined/described, by other adjectives or adjectival phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, as in the following verses.
[1]Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [ἀΐ́διος/aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

[2]Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
In Romans 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aidios” synonymous with “aionios.” In this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.
[3]Luke 1:33
(33) And he shall reign [βασιλευσει][Vb] over the house of Jacob for ever; [αιωνας/aionas] and of his kingdom [βασιλειας][Nn] there shall be no end.[τελος/τελος]
In this verse the reign/ βασιλευσει/basileusei, which is the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom βασιλειας/basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.” “Aionas” by definition here means eternal.
[4]2 Corinthians 4:17-18
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] weight of glory;
(18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;[πρόσκαιρος/proskairos] but the things which are not seen are eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this passage “aionios” is contrasted with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Age(s)” an indeterminate finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary” “eternal” is. “Aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[5]2 Corinthians 5:1
(1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] in the heavens.
In this verse “aionios house” is contrasted with “earthly house which is destroyed.” Is God going to replace our destroyed earthly house with a house only ages long which will also be destroyed at the end of an age? The aionios house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[6]Hebrews 7:24 but because Jesus lives forever [αἰών/aion] he has an unchangeable [ἀπαράβατος/aparabatos] priesthood.
In this verse “aion” is paired with “unchangeable.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Jesus cannot continue “for a finite period” and be “unchangeable” at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
[7]1 Peter 1:23
(23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God. …

1 Peter 1:25
(25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[αἰών/aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.
In verse 23 “word of God” is paired with “imperishable.” In verse 25 the word of God “endures εις τον αιωνα unto eternity. ” Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity.”
[8]1 Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this verse “aionios” is paired with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”
[9]Galatians 6:8
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; [φθορά/fthora] but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “corruption.” “Fleshly” people reap “corruption” but spiritual people reap “life aionios,” i.e. “not corruption.” “Age(s), a finite period, is not opposite of “corruption.” Thus “aionios life” by definition here means “eternal/everlasting life.”
[10]John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this verse “aionios life” is contrasted with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[11]John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life, and they shall never [αἰών/aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Here “aionios” and “aion” are paired with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”
[12]1 John 2:17
(17) The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever. [αἰών/aion]
In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “pass away,” “lives aionios” cannot mean a finite period, A “finite period” is not opposite of “pass away.” Thus “lives aionios” by definition here means “lives eternally.”
[13]1 Peter 5:10
(10) And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal [αιωνιον/aionion] glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, [ολιγον/oligon] will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.
In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “little while” Does Jesus give His followers a finite period of glory then they eventually die? Thus “aionios” here means “eternal.”
[14]Romans 2:7
(7) To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, [ἀφθαρσία/apftharsia] he will give eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.
In this verse “aionios” is paired with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, believers cannot seek for “a finite period,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternal life” and “immortality” at the same time. Thus by definition “aionios life” here means “eternal life.”
[15]1 Timothy 1:17.
(17) Now unto the King eternal, [αἰών/aion] immortal, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever [αἰών/aion] and ever [αἰώνιος/aionios]. Amen.
In this verse “aion” is paired with “immortal.” “Aion” cannot mean “age(s),” a finite period and be immortal at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
[16]Revelation 14:11
(11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:[ εις αιωνας αιωνων/eis aionas aionon] and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
In this verse “aionas aionon torment” is paired with “no rest day or night.” If “aionas, aionon” means “a finite period” at some time they would rest, “Aionas, aionon” by definition here means “forever and forever.”
[17]John 10:28
(28) And I give unto them eternal [αιωνιον] life; and they shall never [εις τον αιωνα] perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
In this verse “aionion” and “aiona” are paired with “[no man can] “pluck them out of my hand” If “aionion” and “aiona” are only a finite period then at some time they could be plucked out. “Aionion” and “aiona” by definition here mean eternal.
[18]John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [αιωνιον] life.
In this verse “aionion” is paired with “shall not perish.” Believers could perish in a finite period, “aionion life” by definition here means eternal life.
[19]John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [αιωνιον] life.
In this verse “aionion” is paired with “should not perish.” Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, “aionion life” by definition here means eternal or everlasting life.
[20]John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [αἰώνιος] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
In this verse “aionios” is paired with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from life unto death.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.
[21]Romans 5:21
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [αἰώνιος] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
In this verse “aionios life” is contrasted with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death, “eternal life” is. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”
[22]Ephesians 3:21
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [του αιωνος/tou aionios] and ever! [των αιωνων/ton aionion] Amen.
In this verse “tou aionios ton aionion” is paired with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.
[23]John 8:51
(51) Very truly [αμην αμην/amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ου μη εις τον αιωνα/ou mé eis ton aiona] see death."
According to noted Greek scholar MarvinVincent "The double negative “ou mé” signifies in nowise, by no means." Unless Jesus is saying they will die, i.e. see death, unto the age. By definition aion means eternity.

 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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If we are truly honest with ourselves, it's not the translation's.....it's our lack of study.
Rather, as Jesus told Simon barjona, Blessed art thou Simon barjona, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but MY FATHER REVEALED THIS TO YOU FROM HEAVEN....
and
again
PRAISE YOU HEAVENLY FATHER, for YOU have REVEALED SALVATION to little children,
and hidden it from educated ones (who study without being crucified in Christ, and without trusting You and without receiving Revelation from You) .
 
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Gr8Grace

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Rather, as Jesus told Simon barjona, Blessed art thou Simon barjona, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but MY FATHER REVEALED THIS TO YOU FROM HEAVEN....
and
again
PRAISE YOU HEAVENLY FATHER, for YOU have REVEALED SALVATION to little children,
and hidden it from educated ones (who study without being crucified in Christ, and without trusting You and without receiving Revelation from You) .
I agree. Salvation is simple and He has revealed it to all.

AFTER SALVATION, it is a little here and a little there, precept upon precept, line upon line.........And the translation's don't throw believers off. It's their lack of study.
 
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Der Alte

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Rather, as Jesus told Simon barjona, Blessed art thou Simon barjona, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but MY FATHER REVEALED THIS TO YOU FROM HEAVEN....
and
again
PRAISE YOU HEAVENLY FATHER, for YOU have REVEALED SALVATION to little children,
and hidden it from educated ones (who study without being crucified in Christ, and without trusting You and without receiving Revelation from You)
.
Pity the poor folks who follow blind teachers and think they don't need the scriptures because they believe that everything they need to know will be revealed from heaven by the Father.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Timothy 3:16
(16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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What is confusing people are heterodox folks like yourself arguing about the meaning of Greek words when most don't know the first thing about Greek.
Just English, actually.

Later, others, Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. Even more clearly. But no,
not on this forum, here.

Only English needed, and Revelation from the Father, always in line with all Scripture, and in perfect harmony with all Scripture.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I agree. Salvation is simple and He has revealed it to all.

AFTER SALVATION, it is a little here and a little there, precept upon precept, line upon line.........And the translation's don't throw believers off. It's their lack of study.
Well, some /many/ whole congregations claim things from certain translations that are not true, and defend those things very strongly based on a wrong translation, when they don't know and don't seek and find the true meaning. This is 'understandable' since so many are comfortable with this way, and they all congratulate one another and accuse anyone who knows different , anyone who knows the truth, of being very wrong.
 
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Der Alte

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And those who oppose Scripture.
Good if you see somebody doing that then talk to them instead of throwing mud at everybody. Are you accusing me of doing that?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Good if you see somebody doing that then talk to them instead of throwing mud at everybody. Are you accusing me of doing that?
The line of questioning came up , I believe, because you opposed someone who said plainly that divine revelation (in line with all Scripture, btw, if he didn't say that), is better source
than any human writings of men that are opposed to Scripture,
and also a better source than any writings that are not divinely inspired.
 
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SarahsKnight

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So unbelievers pay eternal wages for rejecting what He ETERNALLY DID DO for them.

I agree.

... Is this supposed to prove that the eternal consequence is conscious torture, though? Because your logic here makes just as much sense for literal eternal death, in which there is no hope of life ever again.
 
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Der Alte

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Well, some /many/ whole congregations claim things from certain translations that are not true, and defend those things very strongly based on a wrong translation, when they don't know and don't seek and find the true meaning. This is 'understandable' since so many are comfortable with this way, and they all congratulate one another and accuse anyone who knows different , anyone who knows the truth, of being very wrong.
Can you point to any specific congregations and/or persons who do this? Or are you just slinging mud to be slinging mud? You seem to be doing what you are accusing other so doing, "congratulate one another and accuse anyone who knows different, anyone who knows the truth, of being very wrong."
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Can you point to any specific congregations and/or persons who do this? Or are you just slinging mud to be slinging mud? You seem to be doing what you are accusing other so doing, "congratulate one another and accuse anyone who knows different, anyone who knows the truth, of being very wrong."
I showed you specifically what was wrong, or apparently wrong , with who you trusted. They weren't inspired. Everything inspired by Yahweh is therefore , by definition, better - more reliable.

On the basis of uninspired man's knowledge you listed as references, you apparently made claims that are not supported by any inspired writings nor revelations, whether Scripture or otherwise.

Anything inspired or revealed by Yahweh, is necessarily not just in line with all Scripture, but also in harmony, perfect harmony, with all of His Word, Plan and Purpose in Christ Jesus.
 
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Gr8Grace

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Well, some /many/ whole congregations claim things from certain translations that are not true, and defend those things very strongly based on a wrong translation, when they don't know and don't seek and find the true meaning. This is 'understandable' since so many are comfortable with this way, and they all congratulate one another and accuse anyone who knows different , anyone who knows the truth, of being very wrong.
People claim things that are wrong even when the translation is perfect in comparison to the original.

It's not the translation. It's people not studying to show themselves approved. Especially in todays world where all the info is at our fingertips.

A gifted pastor teacher will teach his students how to prove him wrong if he is wrong. Most "teachers" nowadays teach to prove themselves right.
 
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