Why are so many Christians against annihilation in hell when scripture supports it?

ClementofA said:

Paul didn't say "all in Christ shall be made alive". He said "in Christ shall all be made alive". Who are the "all" of the parallel statement in the first half of the parallel:
1 Cor.15:22 For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive.
How many human beings does the "all" in "in Adam all" die refer to? All mankind.

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Same old UR rhetoric. Ignore all of the scripture I posted and repeat the same mantra over and over and over. "In Christ" has a specific meaning which I demonstrated with scripture and which you ignored.
Note, Irenaeus says "in Adam we all do die" but "in Christ we may all live. NOT "in Christ we all do live."
I have addressed all the rest of this mish-mash before and you continue to ignore it and post the same out-of-context proof texts repeatedly..

Der Alter said:

Same old UR rhetoric. Ignore all of the scripture I posted and repeat the same mantra over and over and over. "In Christ" has a specific meaning which I demonstrated with scripture and which you ignored.

Tertullian IX. A Treatise on the Soul Chap. XL.
Every soul, then, by reason of its birth, has its nature in Adam until it is born again in Christ; moreover, it is unclean all the while that it remains without this regeneration; (Rom_6:4) and because unclean, it is actively sinful, and suffuses even the flesh (by reason of their conjunction) with its own shame.
Irenaeus Against Heresies. Book V. Chap. XII.
3. This same, therefore, was what the Lord came to quicken, that as in Adam we do all die, as being of an animal nature, in Christ we may all live, as being spiritual, not laying aside God’s handiwork, but the lusts of the flesh, and receiving the Holy Spirit; as the apostle says in the Epistle to the Colossians: “Mortify, therefore, your members which are upon the earth.”​

Note, Irenaeus says "in Adam we all do die" but "in Christ we may all live. NOT "in Christ we all do live."
I have addressed all the rest of this mish-mash before and you continue to ignore it and post the same out-of-context proof texts repeatedly..

Revelation 22:3-5
(3) And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
(4) And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
(5) And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they [God and the Lamb, vs. 3] shall reign for ever and ever.
Isaiah 9:6-7
(6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
(7) Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
Luke 1:31-33
(31) And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
(32) He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
(33) And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
​

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Der Alter, no one has denied the meaning of "in Christ". And you're all over the Bible, but continue to ignore the context of 1 Cor.15:22 which is under discussion:

Der Alter said:

What about God’s enemies who are made a footstool for Jesus?

Isa 110:1
Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."Mat 22:44, Mar 12:36, Luk 20:43, Act 2:35

Jos 10:24 And it came to pass, when they brought out those kings unto Joshua, that Joshua called for all the men of Israel, and said unto the captains of the men of war which went with him, Come near, put your feet upon the necks of these kings. And they came near, and put their feet upon the necks of them.

When enemy kings were captured they were forced to their knees and the conquerors would place their feet on the back of their necks.

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1 Cor.15:25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

How many will be "under His feet"? Just enemies or all:

1 Cor.15:27 For “He has put in subjection all under His feet.” But when it may be said that all has been put in subjection, it is evident that the One having put in subjection all to Him is excepted.

So there is only one exception to "all" to be "put...under his feet". Then God will be "in" "all", hence universal salvation:

1 Cor.15:28 And when all shall be subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all under him, that God may be all in all.

mark kennedy said:

I've looked into that a few times and there is a Biblical argument that can be made for the utter destruction of the body and soul in the lake of fire. It actually makes sense that the suffering won't be eternal because, what would be the point? Jesus even said:

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell Matthew 10:28.
​

When I encountered the argument originally I had never thought about it, but listening to the arguments it started to make sense.

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Dear Mark: I believe in the working of the One who loses nothing: not leftover pieces of bread, not leftover pieces of fish, and more importantly the broken wrecks of humanity.

The Wrath Of God

The question=

What does the koine katartízō from katá mean?

The Answer=

To render i.e to fit, sound, complete.

To mend (what has been broken or rent) to repair.

To repair what has been broken or rent.

To complete.

To fit out, equip, put in order, arrange, adjust.

To fit or frame for one’s self.

To prepare for one’s self.

To strengthen, perfect, complete, make one what he ought to be.

To make one what he aught to be.

"We must all die and are like water spilled on the ground that cannot be gathered up again

BUT

the Lord does not take away life, instead He devises ways for the banished to be restored."

One of the methods used by those who shroud the truth in lies is to obfuscate Holy Writ with abstract and convoluted references. Pseudo-scholarly language is substituted for truth and lies are offered in its place.

There are two inescapable truths stated in the Bible about the nature of God and the afterlife.
#1
“who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light”
- 1 Tim 6:16

ONLY GOD is immortal. There is no such thing as an indestructible part of a human that survives death. It has been said that humans are born in the image of God. This is INCORRECT.

#2
Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal;
- Genesis 6:3a

Adam was born in the image of God. All who were born after Adam are born in the corruptible image of Adam. Why corruptible? Because Adam sinned and fell from grace, therefore the progeny of Adam are all fallen and NOT imbued with divine characteristics of God. (Romans 5:12)

When you meet the proud parents of a new born baby, the words often spoken are of how much like his or her parents the child appears. A baby is born in the image of its parents. Likewise humanity is born in the image of its sinful father Adam. As a result we die spiritually as well as physically.

Death is the penalty of sin - and we are all born sinners. Therefore the nature of man is to die.

The soul who sins will die. - Ezekiel 18:4b

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
-Romans 6:23

The great gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus to those who humbly repent and accept His lordship in life. There are no second chances after death (Hebrews 9:27), no programs of repentance are possible and no life at all.

Death is the loss of life. - Merriam Webster dictionary

Those that deny the fact of death are the sons of evil incarnate. Death is permanent cessation of activity experience and being.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God gives eternal life to sinners. Nowhere.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say man is immortal in and of his own nature. Nowhere.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say there is remediation after death. Nowhere.

The Bible clearly teaches that death without Christ results in spiritual death - absolute and total destruction - not continuing spiritual life in a chamber of horrors. Death is death. How simple does it have to be? But even a liar can twist the totality of death into something God did not intend to reveal to us.

Scripture doesn't lie, but liars can quote scripture to suit their devious doctrines of demons.

If mankind possesses an intrinsic eternal nature, then Christ died for nothing.

His sacrifice upon the cross would be a meaningless gesture if mankind is indeed immortal. His death would not have been necessary to save.

BUT CHRIST DID DIE to save man from his eternal destiny of DEATH - so as to provide life to those who would choose Him, accept Him and welcome Him into their earthly lives.

Beware those who twist the truth and substitute the doctrines of man for divine revelation.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

Choir Loft said:

One of the methods used by those who shroud the truth in lies is to obfuscate Holy Writ with abstract and convoluted references. Pseudo-scholarly language is substituted for truth and lies are offered in its place.
There are two inescapable truths stated in the Bible about the nature of God and the afterlife.
#1
“who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light”- 1 Tim 6:16
ONLY GOD is immortal. There is no such thing as an indestructible part of a human that survives death. It has been said that humans are born in the image of God. This is INCORRECT.
#2
Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal;
- Genesis 6:3a
Adam was born in the image of God. All who were born after Adam are born in the corruptible image of Adam. Why corruptible? Because Adam sinned and fell from grace, therefore the progeny of Adam are all fallen and NOT imbued with divine characteristics of God. (Romans 5:12)
When you meet the proud parents of a new born baby, the words often spoken are of how much like his or her parents the child appears. A baby is born in the image of its parents. Likewise humanity is born in the image of its sinful father Adam. As a result we die spiritually as well as physically.
Death is the penalty of sin - and we are all born sinners. Therefore the nature of man is to die.
The soul who sins will die. - Ezekiel 18:4b
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
-Romans 6:23
The great gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus to those who humbly repent and accept His lordship in life. There are no second chances after death (Hebrews 9:27), no programs of repentance are possible and no life at all.
Death is the loss of life. - Merriam Webster dictionary
Those that deny the fact of death are the sons of evil incarnate. Death is permanent cessation of activity experience and being.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God gives eternal life to sinners. Nowhere.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say man is immortal in and of his own nature. Nowhere.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say there is remediation after death. Nowhere.
The Bible clearly teaches that death without Christ results in spiritual death - absolute and total destruction - not continuing spiritual life in a chamber of horrors. Death is death. How simple does it have to be? But even a liar can twist the totality of death into something God did not intend to reveal to us.
Scripture doesn't lie, but liars can quote scripture to suit their devious doctrines of demons.
If mankind possesses an intrinsic eternal nature, then Christ died for nothing.
His sacrifice upon the cross would be a meaningless gesture if mankind is indeed immortal. His death would not have been necessary to save.
BUT CHRIST DID DIE to save man from his eternal destiny of DEATH - so as to provide life to those who would choose Him, accept Him and welcome Him into their earthly lives.
Beware those who twist the truth and substitute the doctrines of man for divine revelation.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

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CL said:

#2
Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal;
- Genesis 6:3a

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Beware those who quote selective verses out-of-context to support their doctrines of men. The word translated "mortal" in Gen 6:3 is /בָּשָׂר bâśâr. Here is the definition. Odd I can't find "mortal" in the definition. "Doctrines of men" perhaps?
It is most interesting what one might find when they actually read the Bible instead of only the proof texts their particular religious groups emphasizes.
…..In Isa 14 there is a long passage about the king of Babylon dying, according to many the dead know nothing. They are supposedly annihilated, destroyed, pfft, gone! But God, Himself, speaking, these dead people in שאול/sheol, know something, they move, meet the dead coming to sheol, stir up, raise up, speak and say, etc.
In this passage God, himself is speaking, and I see a whole lot of shaking going on, moving, rising up, and speaking in . These dead people seem to know something, about something. We know that verses 11 through 14 describe actual historical events, the death of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon.
…..Some will argue that this passage is figurative because fir trees don’t literally rejoice, vs. 8. They will argue that the passage must be figurative since God told Israel “take up this proverb against the king of Babylon.” vs. 4. The occurrence of one figurative expression in a passage does not prove that anything else in the passage is figurative.
…..The Hebrew word שאול/mashal translated “proverb” does not necessarily mean something is fictional. For example, Israel did not become fictional when God made them a mashal/proverb in 2 Chronicles 7:20, Psalms 44:14, and Jeremiah 24:9.
…..Here is another passage where God, Himself, is speaking and people who are dead in sheol, speaking, being ashamed, comforted, etc.
Jesus speaking, in the NT a dead man in Hades had eyes, was in torment, saw Abraham, “cried and said,” asked for water, begged Abraham, etc.
For your information the Jews understood Isa 14:9-10
Jewish Encyclopedia-Gehenna
When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10).
GEHENNA - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Choir Loft said:

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
-Romans 6:23

The great gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus to those who humbly repent and accept His lordship in life. There are no second chances after death (Hebrews 9:27), no programs of repentance are possible and no life at all.

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Everyone has sinned, so every fallen human being receives the wages of sin, which is death. Does that, then, mean by "death" that everyone is annihilated forever? Obviously not.

Scripture knows nothing of any endless death, but says that death will be abolished (1 Cor.15:26).

"Just as surely as the abolition of slavery entails freedom for those formerly enslaved, the abolition of death entails life for those formerly dead."

1 Cor.15: 28 Now when all things shall have been put in subjection to Him, then also the Son Himself will be put in subjection to the One having put in subjection all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

Beyond all that, your translation is misleading, as the OP of this thread implies. A more literal honest version is:

Rom_6:23 “For the ration of Sin is death, yet the gracious gift of God is life eonian, in Christ Jesus, our Lord.” (CLV)

Furthermore Rom 6 23 doesn't deny that everyone will eventually receive the gift of eonian life. It doesn't address the question of how many human beings will get this gift.
OTOH Scripture reveals that everyone will obtain "life" & be "constituted just":

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

Paul makes a parallel between "the many" who were condemned & sinners and those who will be justified & constituted just.

“In Romans 5, the justification is co-extensive with the condemnation. Since all share in one, all share in the other. If only a certain portion of the human race had partaken of the sin of Adam, only a certain portion would partake of the justification of Christ. But St. Paul affirms all to have been involved in one, and all to be included in the other.”

Therefore there is salvation after death. And corrective punishment.

Jesus shall see of the travail of His soul & be satisfied. Not satisfied a little bit, but the vast majority fried alive forever.

"He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities." (Isa.53:11).

For how "many" (not few) did He "bear their iniquities"? All.

Choir Loft said:

There are no second chances after death (Hebrews 9:27), no programs of repentance are possible and no life at all.

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Hebrews 9:27 does not say there are "no second chances after death". If there's no postmortem salvation, what happens to those who die as infants? Does God's love have an expiry date like a carton of milk? If Love Omnipotent doesn't save all, is it because He is unable or because He doesn't want to?

Lam.3:31For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
32But though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies.
33For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve THE CHILDREN OF MEN. (KJV, emphasis mine)

1 Cor.15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1 Cor.15:25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

How many will be "under His feet"? Just enemies or all:

1 Cor.15:27 For “He has put in subjection all under His feet.” But when it may be said that all has been put in subjection, it is evident that the One having put in subjection all to Him is excepted.

So there is only one exception to "all" to be "put...under his feet". Then God will be "in" "all", hence universal salvation:

1 Cor.15:28 And when all shall be subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all under him, that God may be all in all.

Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46

ClementofA said:

...
Hebrews 9:27 does not say there are "no second chances after death". ...

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Logical fallacy, argument from silence. Flying spaghetti monsters and little green men must also exist because no evidence says they don't.

Clem said:

시작

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<Clem>1 Cor.15:25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.
How many will be "under His feet"? Just enemies or all:
1 Cor.15:27 For “He has put in subjection all under His feet.” But when it may be said that all has been put in subjection, it is evident that the One having put in subjection all to Him is excepted.
So there is only one exception to "all" to be "put...under his feet". Then God will be "in" "all", hence universal salvation:
1 Cor.15:28 And when all shall be subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all under him, that God may be all in all.<end>

끝을

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The usual selective, out-of-context UR proof text. Find a verse which can be made to appear to support UR and ignore the context. What are all things in your proof text? Is it everything, everyone in the universe? Paul specifies "enemies" twice in vss 25 and 26 but in vs. 27, UR-ites would have us believe that, suddenly without any indication Paul is now talking about everyone, everything in the universe.
When reading this passage we must understand that it is OT prophecy.
Neither Psa 110:1, nor where it is quoted in, Mat 22:44, Mar 12:36, Luk 20:43, Heb 1:13, Heb 10:13, mention all things in the universe being under Jesus' feet.
.....What does scripture mean when it says make someone's enemies their footstool?

"That IN the Name of Jesus every knee shall bow and tongue shall confess He is Lord to the glory of God the Father"

Every knee
Every tongue
Every dimension
Heavens & earth & underworld.

"For this reason, God also lifts Him up above (highly exalts Him; elevates Him over) and by grace gives to Him (graces on Him) the Name -- the one over and above every name! -- to the end that within The Name: Jesus! (or: in the name of {or: belonging to} Jesus), EVERY KNEE -- of the men upon the heavens (of those belonging to the super-heavens) and of the men existing upon the earth and of the men dwelling down under the ground (or: pertaining to subterranean ones) -- may bend (should bow) in worship or prayer, and EVERY TONGUE may speak out the same thing (should openly agree, confess and acclaim) that Jesus Christ [is] Lord [= Yahweh?] -- into [the] glory of Father God (or: unto Father God’s reputation)!" -Jonathan Mitchell N.T.-

F.W. Robertson Word Pictures=

"That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow ( ina en twi onomati Ihsou pan gonu kampsh ). First aorist active subjunctive of kamptw , old verb, to bend, to bow, in purpose clause with ina . Not perfunctory genuflections whenever the name of Jesus is mentioned, but universal acknowledgment of the majesty and power of Jesus who carries his human name and nature to heaven. This universal homage to Jesus is seen in Romans 8:22 ;Ephesians 1:20-22 and in particular Revelation 5:13 . Under the earth ( katacqoniwn ). Homeric adjective for departed souls, subterranean, simply the dead. Here only in the N.T. "

I posted:

Hebrews 9:27 does not say there are "no second chances after death".

Der Alter replied:

Der Alter said:

Logical fallacy, argument from silence.

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No, it's no fallacy. What i said is simply a statement of fact. The words "no second chances after death" do not appear in Hebrews 9:27. If you think otherwise, post a Bible translation of Hebrews 9:27 that has those words in it. Not only can you not do that, neither can you provide any argument based on Hebrews 9:27 that proves that there are ""no second chances after death". Yet Hebrews 9:27 is quite often alleged in support of such an idea, even though it neither says or implies any such thing.

??? said:

Hebrews 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

There is no change of a man's state after death.

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Hebrews 9:27 says no such thing.

Rom.3:4a God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;

For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:

1 Cor.15:25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

How many will be "under His feet"? Just enemies or all:

1 Cor.15:27 For “He has put in subjection all under His feet.” But when it may be said that all has been put in subjection, it is evident that the One having put in subjection all to Him is excepted.

So there is only one exception to "all" to be "put...under his feet". Then God will be "in" "all", hence universal salvation:

1 Cor.15:28 And when all shall be subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all under him, that God may be all in all.

Der Alter said:

What are all things in your proof text? Is it everything, everyone in the universe? Paul specifies "enemies" twice in vss 25 and 27 but in vs. 27 UR-ites would have us believe that suddenly without any indication Paul is now talking about everyone, everything in the universe.

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There's no reference to "enemies" in verse 27:

27For “He has put in subjection all things under His feet.”b But when it may be said that all things have been put in subjection, it is evident that the One having put in subjection all things to Him is excepted. 28Now when all things shall have been put in subjection to Him, then also the Son Himself will be put in subjection to the One having put in subjection all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

1 Timothy 2:4 + God does all He desires = all will be saved?

ClementofA said:

Everyone has sinned, so every fallen human being receives the wages of sin, which is death. Does that, then, mean by "death" that everyone is annihilated forever? Obviously not.

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It means what it says, that all mankind is under the sentence of death - permanent spiritual annihilation as well as permanent physical death.

What is obvious is that many refuse to accept the statement of scripture or the evidence of their own eyes in the world.
Death is permanent.
Mankind sins.
The penalty of sin is death for everyone.

Scripture knows nothing of any endless death, but says that death will be abolished (1 Cor.15:26).

You have lifted a single verse from scripture to justify an erroneous dogma. The qualifying verse appears earlier in verse 22, "For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive."

Death will be abolished for those who are in Christ. The rest remain in their sin.

Judgment for one who is in Christ is a joyous occasion, but judgment for one who is not in Christ is the terrible prospect of permanent irrevocable extinction - death.

Adam is the precursor of sin and death for us all, but Christ is the second Adam (1 Corinthians 15:47) who saves from sin all who come humbly to Him.

* * * *

Therefore there is salvation after death. And corrective punishment.

Again you have taken scripture out of context to assert a false doctrine. There is no remedial program after final judgment. Of that the Bible is final. Death is the end and sin is destroyed by it - either upon the cross or in destruction of existence of sinners.

Hebrews 9:27 is definite - There is judgment after death and that's it.

Hebrews 9:27 does not say there are "no second chances after death". If there's no postmortem salvation, what happens to those who die as infants? Does God's love have an expiry date like a carton of milk? If Love Omnipotent doesn't save all, is it because He is unable or because He doesn't want to?

What language do you understand? Hebrews 9:27 says there is death followed by judgment. You are reading something into scripture that isn't intended.

There is no such thing as love omnipotent. You are inventing a god that doesn't exist and is never mentioned in the Bible. It is a heresy of the post modern church age.

Sin is judged. What baby has sinned and is deserving of spiritual destruction? Please tell me what baby has committed blasphemy or theft or murder or is guilty of lying. Please let me know what baby is guilty of adultery. A baby is a device which makes noise at one end and is totally irresponsible on the other. That's it and that's all.

According to the Bible the sinner is deserving of death. According to the Law a sacrifice for sin must be made to be forgiven. According to that same Law, a sacrifice of thanksgiving is made for a newborn - NOT a sacrifice for sin. Such a sacrifice was made for Jesus upon the occasion of His birth - according to the Law.

Babies do not suffer the judgment of sin because they haven't sinned.

This isn't rocket science, but it is possible to lie about Biblical intent. God is just and does not punish a child for something he or she hasn't committed. If a child dies their spirit is judged sinless. Why? Not because of a sinful nature, but because they haven't DONE anything.

The heritage of Adam is sin. All mankind has inherited the tendency to sin, but no one is judged for potential sins. We are all judged for sins we've committed because of our nature to do so. Sinning also includes misrepresenting scripture as satan did when it tempted Jesus. (It bears false witness against God's Word.)

YES, God's love does indeed have an expiry date. It's called DEATH. When the physical body dies the love of God, which has extended the opportunity to repent and receive redemption, also ceases. Those who reject God in life are themselves rejected at Final Judgment when the Almighty says, "Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' - Matthew 7:23

It does NOT say to come back a week from Tuesday when you've cleaned up your act.

1 Cor.15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

The above scripture you've quoted is true, but unfortunately few are in Christ. Therefore few are made alive, not all. (Matthew 7:13)

1 Cor.15:25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

How many will be "under His feet"? Just enemies or all:

Enemies are destroyed. Those who are saved and have accepted Christ are not considered to be enemies. They are called friends - John 15:14

You are confusing friends with enemies. Woe unto them that call good evil and evil good. At the very least they are confused. At worst they seek to promulgate doctrines of demons.

So there is only one exception to "all" to be "put...under his feet". Then God will be "in" "all", hence universal salvation:

Again you are making exceptions where they don't exist so as to promote a false doctrine. Not all are saved. Only those who accept Christ are granted eternal life. Those who do not are ejected into eternal darkness of spiritual destruction. The parable of the ten virgins is another example from Matthew 25:10.

Only God has eternal life.
Man is mortal and subject to death, both physical and spiritual.
Death is forever, permanent and irreversible.

God chooses to grant eternal life to those who repent of sin and accept Christ as their savior. This is called the Good News. There is no good news for sinners, which is most of the world.

We've done this before. I can quote numbers of those who do not accept Christ and prefer another religion or none at all.

The notion that all are saved is nowhere taught in the Bible.
The Second Death IS clearly in evidence for those who seek truth. The rest live in their own fallacy and love of darkness (John 3:19).

The doctrine that all will be saved justifies sin without repentance and acceptance of Christ. How can a man be saved if he rejects Christ? He cannot. There is no second opportunity after physical death.

Only total final and absolute destruction awaits the fool who does not repent in life.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft.....

Choir Loft said:

It means what it says, that all mankind is under the sentence of death - permanent spiritual annihilation as well as permanent physical death.

.

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Nope!

The promise of the Lord is to restore all creation back into fellowship with Himself! He has declared this "by Himself." The slightest variance is total and complete failure! If ta pante does not mean the all, any deviation is failure, total and complete failure! If the Last Adam does not make the mass of mankind "righteous", the first Adam has succeeded in keeping the polus captive in sin. Again, total failure by the One who declares the same mass/polus made sinners destined to be made righteous. Total and complete failure by the Will of all wills!

"The whole of created life shall be delivered/set free/emancipated..."

Every last fallen son of Adam1 will not only be saved, every last one will be reconciled: every last one!>>>>>>>But there is more>>>>>

"Saved">>>>>>

"Reconciled"

&

"made righteous"

The polus of mankind made sinners in Adam1=

The polus of mankind made righteous in the Last Adam

The 2nd Death

“Orthodox theology holds the second death to be a state of endless torment in which the sufferers are held forever in conscious being by a continuous act of Divine preservation, with the soul object of a punishment without end. This however would in no sense be death. The second death does not perpetuate the hopeless condition of the sinner to all eternity.

What the Holy Spirit means by ‘fire and brimstone’ is ‘divine purification,’ or a judgment fire which consumes all that is antagonistic to divine law and love.

Before the Great White Throne, that vast throng, their naked spirits conscious now of the blazing holiness of God, will be subjected to the process of the second death. What those processes are, their intensity and their duration, we are not told. They will suffice, however, not in themselves to perfect, but to bring those who suffer them to that agreement with the judgment upon sin which they effect, and through the cross finally to reconcile them to God (Col. 1:20), in a subjection where He will be ‘All in all.’ When that acquiescence in judgment upon sin is reached, and applied in soul and spirit, then will be possible the final victory over death. Hence it is written that when this subjection is reached, then and only then, ‘the last enemy, death, shall be destroyed.’ ” -A. E. Saxby

The Lake Of Fire

Brimstone= theion

Root of theion= Theos

Theion= the breath of Jehovah/ Theos

The Lake of Divine Fire

Yup! The radical all have sinned! And, the radical all of sinners is met by the "all the more" remedy, the Last Adam, the Saviour of the radical all, Jesus Christ the Lord.

In Adam1 the polus "made sinners">>>>>>>>

In the Last Adam the identical polus are "made righteous."


“Many do not understand the extent and purpose of God, that He is the propitiation for sins, and not for ours ONLY

BUT

also for the sins of the whole world (1 John 4:10).

God is calling us to come up higher into Him and begin to see from His eyes, from His position.

God never loses! He wins all

He said, ‘Pick up the fragments, let nothing be lost.

This is seen from His side of the picture. We do not have a tired and frustrated God unable or unwilling to save His own creation. He will vindicate His own character and nature of love and power. Praise His Name! -Dora Van Essen-

-Redemption from His viewpoint Dora V. Essen-


"His grace which abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence, having made known to us the mystery of his will, according to his delight which he purposed in him, to a stewardship of the fullness of the times, to sum up all things in the Christ, the things upon the heavens and the things upon the earth. In him, in whom also we were made an inheritance, having been determined beforehand according to the purpose of the one who is working all things after the plan of his will."

FineLinen said:

Yup! The radical all have sinned! And, the radical all of sinners is met by the "all the more" remedy, the Last Adam, the Saviour of the radical all, Jesus Christ the Lord.
In Adam1 the polus "made sinners">>>>>>>>
In the Last Adam the identical polus are "made righteous."

Click to expand...

All mankind is IN Adam because all mankind are literal, physical descendants of Adam.
All mankind are NOT in Christ unless they have repented etc.
The word "in" is there for a reason.

Irenaeus Against Heresies. Book V. Chap. XI.
This same, therefore, was what the Lord came to quicken, that as in Adam we do all die, as being of an animal nature, in Christ we may all live, as being spiritual, not laying aside God’s handiwork, but the lusts of the flesh, and receiving the Holy Spirit; as the apostle says in the Epistle to the Colossians: “Mortify, therefore, your members which are upon the earth.”
Tertullian IX. A Treatise on the Soul. Chap. XXXVII. —
Chap. XL. — The Body of Man Only Ancillary to the Soul in the Commission of Evil.
Every soul, then, by reason of its birth, has its nature in Adam until it is born again in Christ; moreover, it is unclean all the while that it remains without this regeneration; (Rom_6:4) and because unclean, it is actively sinful, and suffuses even the flesh (by reason of their conjunction) with its own shame.
Tertullian II. The Five Books Against Marcion. Book V
But if we are all so made alive in Christ, as we die in Adam, it follows of necessity that we are made alive in Christ as a bodily substance, since we died in Adam as a bodily substance. The similarity, indeed, is not complete, unless our revival209 in Christ concur in identity of substance with our mortality210 in Adam.​

FL said:

He said, ‘Pick up the fragments, let nothing be lost.

Click to expand...

Out-of-context proof text. Has nothing to do with salvation.

FL said:

This is seen from His side of the picture. We do not have a tired and frustrated God unable or unwilling to save His own creation. He will vindicate His own character and nature of love and power. Praise His Name! -Dora Van Essen-
-Redemption from His viewpoint Dora V. Essen-

Click to expand...

As wonderful a person Dora may be, her writings are not scripture.

Der Alter said:

All mankind is IN Adam because all mankind are literal, physical descendants of Adam.
All mankind are NOT in Christ unless they have repented etc.
The word "in" is there for a reason.

Irenaeus Against Heresies. Book V. Chap. XI.
This same, therefore, was what the Lord came to quicken, that as in Adam we do all die, as being of an animal nature, in Christ we may all live, as being spiritual, not laying aside God’s handiwork, but the lusts of the flesh, and receiving the Holy Spirit; as the apostle says in the Epistle to the Colossians: “Mortify, therefore, your members which are upon the earth.”
Tertullian IX. A Treatise on the Soul. Chap. XXXVII. —
Chap. XL. — The Body of Man Only Ancillary to the Soul in the Commission of Evil.
Every soul, then, by reason of its birth, has its nature in Adam until it is born again in Christ; moreover, it is unclean all the while that it remains without this regeneration; (Rom_6:4) and because unclean, it is actively sinful, and suffuses even the flesh (by reason of their conjunction) with its own shame.
Tertullian II. The Five Books Against Marcion. Book V
But if we are all so made alive in Christ, as we die in Adam, it follows of necessity that we are made alive in Christ as a bodily substance, since we died in Adam as a bodily substance. The similarity, indeed, is not complete, unless our revival209 in Christ concur in identity of substance with our mortality210 in Adam.​

Click to expand...

Already addressed in post #1382 of this thread, i.e. here:

Why are so many Christians against annihilation in hell when scripture supports it?

Der Alter said:

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 6:23
(23) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:​

Real clear "all have sinned,""death passed upon all men,""the wages of sin is death" and "It is appointed once unto men to die." But there is not one verse which says "the wages of sin is death," resurrection then a second death.

Click to expand...

Yeah, and there's not one verse that says Love Almighty will torture billions for eternity because He loves them so much.

OTOH, Paul states:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

Paul makes a parallel between "the many" who were condemned & sinners and those who will be justified & constituted just.

“In Romans 5, the justification is co-extensive with the condemnation. Since all share in one, all share in the other. If only a certain portion of the human race had partaken of the sin of Adam, only a certain portion would partake of the justification of Christ. But St. Paul affirms all to have been involved in one, and all to be included in the other.”

Therefore there is salvation after death. And corrective punishment.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Jesus shall see of the travail of His soul & be satisfied. Not satisfied a little bit, but the vast majority fried alive forever.

"He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities." (Isa.53:11).

For how "many" (not few) did He "bear their iniquities"? All.

Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46

Der Alter said:

Out-of-context proof text. Has nothing to do with salvation.

Click to expand...

You must attempt to find an expanded response D.A. Everything is out of context. LOL. The Master of Reconciliation has more interest in broken bread & broken fish, but the broken members of Adam 1 are not in the scenario? Oh please!

“And He is [the] propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”

Please note:

1. Jesus Christ IS propitiation.
   
   
2. He is propitiation for our sins (all of us).
   
   
3. Jesus Christ IS propitiation for the sins of the WHOLE world.
   
   
4. Whole= holos.
   
   
5. Holos is NOT monos or monon.
   
   
6. Jesus Christ is NOT propitiation for our sins ONLY/monon, but for the sins of the WHOLE world.

The polus in Adam1= the polus in the Last Adam: every last one!