Why are so many against reformed Theology…

[Tra Phull]

It would seem that the op invites those who are against Reformed theology to explain why they are against it. Yet we see the same-o same-o that those who are against Reform theology MISREPRESENT it, don't know Greek, are misinformed, are illogical, etc., etc.

I am against Reformed theology, Calvinism, TULIP- because it makes man into a ZERO, an AUTOMATON, a ROBOT.
And it makes God into a tyrant, and the choices are indeed ARBITRARY of who burns and who lives.

Jesus loves the little children
Some of all types of all the children of the world
Red and yellow, black and white
Some are precious in His sight
Jesus loves some of the children of the world

 

[renniks]

Free will is a lie. A pagan doctrine that crept into the RCC long ago

The entire biblical narrative assumes Free Will is real. You have God complaining about man's sin, regretting he created us, and in reformed theology he caused what he is complaining about.

 

[Knee V]

For the same reason I'm "against" Word of Faith, or Dispensationalism, or or the World Wide Church of God, or Shepherd's Chapel, or Mormonism, or Hinduism, or Buddhism, or Arianism, or Nestorianism, or Monophysitism, or what have you: because I think it is not correct.

 

[renniks]

I know 'that' from having read it here many times; and this is, I think, an audience that is broadly representative of the various branches of Christianity. Also, it accords with what I have been told by various people of my personal acquaintance offline and read in articles and other written material. It is one area of Christian theology about which there is a great amount of misunderstanding.

Perhaps we have different ideas about what " in charge" means. It certainly does not mean God's will is always done.

 

[renniks]

So long, in your saying that Reformed theology teaches that God "controls everything", you are not saying that God authors or approves of evil actions according to Reformed theology - that is correct.

How can he not approve of what he causes? If I control your actions, it would be pretty schizophrenic of me to say I don't approve of what you do.

 

[Hazelelponi]

...

It would seem that the op invites those who are against Reformed theology to explain why they are against it. Yet we see the same-o same-o that those who are against Reform theology MISREPRESENT it, don't know Greek, are misinformed, are illogical, etc., etc.

I am against Reformed theology, Calvinism, TULIP- because it makes man into a ZERO, an AUTOMATON, a ROBOT.
And it makes God into a tyrant, and the choices are indeed ARBITRARY of who burns and who lives.

Jesus loves the little children
Some of all types of all the children of the world
Red and yellow, black and white
Some are precious in His sight
Jesus loves some of the children of the world

God isn't the author of sin, he simply allowed it. Does that make it God's fault that we love it so much we are slaves to it and enemies of God as a result of our own desires?

And this is the issue - people who hate reformed theology have an innate aversion to seeing themselves as absolutely unworthy of salvation, and absolutely no better than the serial killer next door..

God doesn't judge as the world judges - that's rule #1. It wasn't you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours when it comes to salvation.. we aren't trusting in our own abilities - we are placing 110% of our trust in HIS..

and it begins with seeing our ourselves in truth, through God's eyes and not the world's..

It's not a matter of believing right or doing the right things or going through the correct motions, it begins by realizing you can't save yourself, and getting down on your face in tears begging God for mercy - and help. ..

 

[civilwarbuff]

I think you are conflating the idea that God is obligated to love with his loving his children. God isnt obligated to do anything to include save a single person. But God is clear that he chose us IN CHRIST before the foundation of the world began. Please allow me to remind you that God's will is done on earth as it has already been done in heaven.

I dunno about that.....John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
It seems to me that God obligated himself to save ALL who believe.....

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

I'm not "AGAINST" reformed theology, ans much as I simply know that it's "ONLY" theology, and not God's WORD.

It's a "Theological OPINION" based on its own collection of "Proof texts", and "Fleshed out" academically as a "Systematic" presentation.

There's no question BIBLICALLY, that "Salvation" (Becoming Born again) BEGINS with God "moving first" to draw humans to Christ - REINFORCED BY Romans 9, John 6:44.

However "Reformed Theology" essentially ELIMINATES any human responsibility whatsoever. If one is "Elect" (L), then he has no choice BUT to become a Christian (I), and no choice BUT (P) to persevere until death.

Antithetically, if one is NOT Elect", the're nothing but firewood with no choice whatsoever about anything. It's a nice, clean precise systematic with no "hanging ends". You IS, or you Ain't - period.

THOUSANDS of years ago, before creation, my new Great Grand Daughter, My Grand Daughter, my Daughter, and I were arbitrarily (U) labeled "Elect", or "Firewood", and NONE OF US have any say in the matter. Since I'm a Christian, obviously I won an "E", and became Christian. There's no need to pray for any of the others, since their FATE has already been sealed (L).

I don't know, however, how totally inflexible Father actually is -

So you are another who finds fault with God? you desire to blame god for mans sin. You should not do that.

 

[renniks]

So you are another who finds fault with God? you desire to blame god for mans sin. You should not do that.

Sounds like he finds fault with reformed theology, not God.

 

[Tra Phull]

I do not have an innate aversion to seeing myself unworthy of salvation, Hazelponi - you attribute things to me that are totally untrue.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

SO then the Calvinise "U" is inaccurate. and God's decision to "Elect" an individual is CONDITIONAL on considerations that God foresees.

Wrong once again of course. You do not seem to understand biblical foreknowledge of God setting His covenant love on persons.
You describe a god who needs to look forward and learn, rather than the biblical God who has decreed what will come to pass.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Sounds like he finds fault with reformed theology, not God.

Not really. if you read carefully what he posts, he seems to doubt God's holy attributes. He speaks as if we cannot trust God's perfect wisdom.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

I dunno about that.....John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
It seems to me that God obligated himself to save ALL who believe.....

God does save all who believe. They are All the father gave to Jesus;
jn 6
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Not if the "Reformed Systematic" is correct. The decision to Save, or Condemn was already set in stone before the creation (supralapsarianism), OR sometime after the fall (infralapsarianism).

What Dr. Kennedy thinks or doesn't think isn't "Gods Word" - just HIS OPINION, so no help there. ALL God's CHilluns Gots "Opinions".

Reformed theology is generated from scriptural revelation. Scripture over rules mens opinion, God does exactly what He has purposed to do.

 

[civilwarbuff]

God does save all who believe. They are All the father gave to Jesus;
jn 6
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Would have been helpful to include a few more of the verses.....
40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Not gives to me or sends to me.....EVERYONE.....

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Consequently then, it'a an ARBITRARY decision on God's part to Save this one, and Condemn that one. You can't have it both ways.

So which is it??

The biblical God does not do anything"arbitrary". You are constantly describing something other than the god of scripture who does this;
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Would have been helpful to include a few more of the verses.....
40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Not gives to me or sends to me.....EVERYONE.....

sure you want more verses, lets work down all the way to 6:
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The everyone are those given by the Father.......it is true that everyone given will come. We call them the elect. Scripture calls them the elect sheep who belong to the Good Sheppard. He saves all of them;
EZk34,jn 10

 

[Tra Phull]

Calvinism makes me nauseous.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Calvinism makes me nauseous.

I'm sure it does...

 

[civilwarbuff]

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Very true and he did draw men to Him as He walked the earth...of course then there was afterwards....
John 12:32
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

This is like the biblical version of dueling banjos.....