Why are so many against reformed Theology…

[renniks]

So ? Why didn't you just point out / quote/ the contradictions then ? Just one, for now, unless there's more than one also to address.

I thought I did. If God meticulously controls everything as claimed it's logically impossible to say his judgments of evildoers are just.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I thought I did. If God meticulously controls everything as claimed it's logically impossible to say his judgments of evildoers are just.

?? (not sure) ...

We know to start with God is perfect. He is perfectly just and righteous in all of His judgments, and has no iniquity at all in Him, and no injustice.

Right ?

 

[1Reformedman]

???
... God's Will is that none would perish - He even has sorrow at the death of the wicked , as well as the Righteous - but on earth WE PRAY for His Will to be Done on earth as it is in heaven, but people still perish.

2 Peter 3:9 is not a salvific verse. It is a truth statement. A verse in a passage that speaks about the second coming of Christ, not justification. Remember His will is done on earth as it has already been done in heaven. In the greek, the verse actually says that God's will has already been done in heaven. SO if he's already chosen us in Christ, in heaven, before the foundation of the world began, then his will being done one earth must coincide with the will that is already done in heaven. So if he chose us before the foundation of the world began he must also cause us to be saved. Our will is not free. As a lost one that will is in bondage to the old nature. Once regenerated our will is in bondage to the new nature. We cannot even see the kingdom of God unless we've been born again.

 

[1Reformedman]

I think you may be confusing Reformed Theology with Determinism, which is a common confusion. They are not the same.
TD

right and determinism debunks free will

 

[Jonaitis]

"Why are so many against Reformed Theology?"

Are we talking about the five-points, the covenantal framework, or the overall beliefs of Reformed theology?

Ligonier ministries has great stuff to offer, though, in most things.

 

[1Reformedman]

???
... God's Will is that none would perish - He even has sorrow at the death of the wicked , as well as the Righteous - but on earth WE PRAY for His Will to be Done on earth as it is in heaven, but people still perish.

read the passage in context. Its is not a free will unto salvation verse. Its in a passage talking about the 2nd coming of Jesus not justification.

 

[tdidymas]

1. That means God doesn't love everyone equally.

There is no law or principle that demands God love everyone equally. In the scripture it says that God loves some and hates others. It behooves us to "make our calling and election sure" as the apostle Peter exhorts us to do.

2. It means God isn't interested in saving every person.

God is not obligated to be interested in saving everyone. In fact, He is not obligated to save anyone at all. Neither is God unjust if He doesn't save anyone. Since the wages of sin is death, it actually is not exactly just that God saves anyone at all. This is why it is called mercy and grace. If God has to save everyone equally, then mercy is not mercy at all, because mercy is exceptional and extraordinary to justice. And if God wants to display His justice to some of the wicked, He is not going to be interested in saving them, even though He says that He doesn't delight in the death of the wicked.

3. It means God didn't send Jesus for everyone.

In Rev. it says that Jesus' blood purchased "men from every tribe, tongue, and nation." It means that His blood did not purchase everyone.

In conclusion: Maybe God didn't send Jesus for my mom, my father, my children, my family. Maybe He never intended to save them. Maybe He doesn't even love them, well not enough to choosing them for heaven. How can I then love God?

Will you hate God on a list of "maybes"? Obviously, we don't know who God has chosen for salvation, that's why our love for people has to be unconditional, like God's love: "He causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good..." We assume that God loves them and intends to save them; this is the reason why we love people regardless of what they do or say. Jesus loved Judas the same as the other disciples, in the natural sense, even though He knew Judas was his betrayer.

So then, why not love God based on gratefulness of what He has done for you? "We love because He first loved us." If we love God only because we think He is going to save those who we judge as worthy of salvation, then our love would lack humility, and wouldn't be the God-kind of love. Rather than judging God for not saving who you want, instead respect God for what He has done for you, and count it a privilege you don't deserve.
TD

 

[renniks]

I think you may be confusing Reformed Theology with Determinism, which is a common confusion. They are not the same.
TD

For all practical purposes they are exactly the same.

 

[renniks]

Exactly. I find that reformed theology casts doubt on God's goodness.

?? (not sure) ...

We know to start with God is perfect. He is perfectly just and righteous in all of His judgments, and has no iniquity at all in Him, and no injustice.

Right ?

 

[renniks]

Remember His will is done on earth as it has already been done in heaven

Uh...not. why would we be told to pray for his will to be done on earth if it was already being done all the time?

 

[renniks]

right and determinism debunks free will

Determinism is bunk according to scripture.

 

[renniks]

Will you hate God on a list of "maybes"? Obviously, we don't know who God has chosen for salvation, that's why our love for people has to be unconditional, like God's love: "He causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good..." We assume that God loves them and intends to save them; this is the reason why we love people regardless of what they do or say. J

Wow... So we are to be more loving than God? And as far as for the common Grace argument.. gee willikers Batman, I don't care if my loved ones go to hell as long as they got to experience fresh cucumbers!

 

[1Reformedman]

Determinism is bunk according to scripture.

Free will is a lie. A pagan doctrine that crept into the RCC long ago

 

[1Reformedman]

Uh...not. why would we be told to pray for his will to be done on earth if it was already being done all the time?

Read the greek, friend, and educate yourself. We pray that his will is done on earth as it has already been done in heaven. God saves according to the whole counsel of His will not the will of man.

 

[Albion]

Don't know how you would know that. If you judge by actions, maybe, but you could then say that about many doctrines we all affirm.

I know 'that' from having read it here many times; and this is, I think, an audience that is broadly representative of the various branches of Christianity. Also, it accords with what I have been told by various people of my personal acquaintance offline and read in articles and other written material. It is one area of Christian theology about which there is a great amount of misunderstanding.

 

[Albion]

Consequently then, it'a an ARBITRARY decision on God's part to Save this one, and Condemn that one. You can't have it both ways.

So which is it??

Calvinism does not teach that it is arbitrary. Calvinism explicitly teaches that it isn't arbitrary.

In addition, there is no reason why it would need to be arbitrary just because there is a belief in Unconditional Election.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

The Synod of Dort | Tabletalk

Does Calvinism have five points? Is that a silly question? No. It is a good question. And the answer may surprise. The answer is yes and no!

Yes, Calvinism has five points—obviously. We have books on the five points. Tabletalk has had articles on the five points. We even talk about TULIP as a way of remembering the five points: total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, and perseverance of the saints.

And yet we can say, “No, Calvinism does not have five points.” The five points are not a summary of Calvinism. If you want a summary of Calvinism, you must turn to one of its great confessional documents such as the Belgic Confession or the Westminster Confession of Faith. Those confessions cover many more subjects than those covered in the five points. Calvinism has many more points than five.

 

[Kenny'sID]

However "Reformed Theology" essentially ELIMINATES any human responsibility whatsoever.

The very reason I'm against it.

It's just another made up easy, but non biblical theology that draws a lot of people away from the truth with clear lies/deceptions, and that has been proven out on CF threads such as this. It's bad enough they believe it themselves, but they turn around and teach it to others...tells folks just what they like to hear...They can have their cake and eat it too.

People like easy, and reformed takes advantage of that fact in order to fill pews. I won't even get into the profitable end of this except to say, people will pay well to be told what they want to hear and to have someone reinforce what they choose to believe is "truth". Doesn't matter to them it's done with deception, and as has been made clear to me, they don't even bother verifying what makes reformed supposedly true because they would rather not know it isn't true..

 

[His student]

All Christiandom believe God is in charge. Reformed claim God meticulously controls everything in creation, down to the most base evil actions.
See the difference?

So long, in your saying that Reformed theology teaches that God "controls everything", you are not saying that God authors or approves of evil actions according to Reformed theology - that is correct.

 

[His student]

"Reformed Theology" essentially ELIMINATES any human responsibility whatsoever.

That simply is not true.

it'a an ARBITRARY decision on God's part to Save this one, and Condemn that one.

It's unconditional election and not "arbitrary election". The two are not the same.

While I do not myself believe in unconditional election as it is often taught (that eliminates Godly searching and pleasing God by unbelievers as in the case of Cornelius and also leaves not room or reason for anyone to pray for family etc.) - it is not fair of you to misrepresent it as you have.