Why are school shootings a sole unique American problem?

[BNR32FAN]

Who can forget the heroics of Scot Peterson at Parkland.

Not all police officers will fail like he did.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Are you in a particularly rural or high crime area?

I’m in the Dallas Fort Worth area so yeah crime is pretty common here. I’m not in a dangerous neighborhood but there are dangerous neighborhoods just a couple miles away.

 

[Desk trauma]

Not all police officers will fail like he did.

For some reason the cowardice and incompitence comes out during school shootings.

 

[BNR32FAN]

For some reason the cowardice and incompitence comes out during school shootings.

In some not all. This is to be expected when people are put into a life threatening situation. Some will act heroically and some will cower in fear. There’s really no way of knowing how a person will react until they’re put into that situation.

 

[Vylo]

I’m in the Dallas Fort Worth area so yeah crime is pretty common here. I’m not in a dangerous neighborhood but there are dangerous neighborhoods just a couple miles away.

Ah OK, makes sense then.

 

[rambot]

In some not all. This is to be expected when people are put into a life threatening situation. Some will act heroically and some will cower in fear. There’s really no way of knowing how a person will react until they’re put into that situation.

Sadly, even in nonlife threatening situations cops have misperformed.

 

[driewerf]

It's interesting that you think I care.

You don't care about improving the situation?
You don't care about lowering the pile of dead children corpses?
You don't care about Making America Safe Again?

 

[RocksInMyHead]

First, there was a standing army at the time of the ratification of the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights, only that it wasn't a large one.

That's fair - I was thinking of how the constitution does not establish an army (just a navy). However, I think the meat of the point still stands - the US Army in 1789 (when the Bill of Rights was passed) was not sufficient for the security of the state, which made the militia necessary. This is no longer the case.

Second, there have been arguments that the National Guard serves the same role as the militia, and technically it's not a standing army. Third, US law states can have state funded state defense forces. That tends to be obscure, and came out of an old sore topic with the states: Federalizating militia units. Best I can recall, the Federal government cannot federalize state defense forces.

There's another that's not quite a forth point: Some states still maintain militia districts. Don't know if all states do, but they were once shown on county maps. In at least part of the Eastern US, before the practice of surveying land prior to settlement, deeds referenced the militia district. That may or may not be why militia districts continued in places. That said, in the 1970s I was told (but was unable to verify) that a state could still call up people for the militia should the situation warrant.

I don't know about that. It would depend on the laws of individual states. I do know that in the 1970s I saw an honest-to-goodness posse organized by local law enforcement (why it was organized turned out to be a hoax with the two behind it in a great big heap of trouble). Have also seen two coworkers deputized in a situation. It's something that remains in the realm of possibility.

None of this speaks to the necessity of the militia for the security of the state though - just its continued existence.

 

[RDKirk]

Is it possible that it has something to do with culture? Guns are a part of American culture, many people grow up with guns in their households because of that. You have shooting ranges everywhere and it isn't rare that dads take their underage boys there occasionally.

Those kids who frequent the range with their dads are very definitely not the kids shooting up schools.

 

[RDKirk]

It's the availability of guns combined with other, possibly cultural factors. I suspect a profound sense of insecurity, both economic and social, is somewhere in there. While mental health may also be a proximate cause that in turn is possibly a result of insecure work and living conditions and a limited medical system. Workwise the US comes across as something straight out of Dickens. The importance of individual success at the cost of collective responsibility and support (see Covid in the US) is also part of the problem.

OB

I've said this before, so I'll copy and paste:

When I was a kid in the 50s and 60s, the main point of discussion any adult had with a kid was: "What are you going to be when you grow up?" I got that constantly. If a random adult on the street spoke to me at all, it was to ask, "What are you going to be when you grow up?"

That question makes two points: A. We expect you to grow up and be something. B. The choice is yours to make...so make it. Even if you change your mind numerous times, at least have a goal.

Eighteen years old, particularly in a young man's life, is a point of extreme psychological stress in the US. It's the point that someone who has been treated as a child all his life is suddenly treated as an adult.

We can get more into the myriad details, but it's a psychological do-or-die point for many young men if they hadn't already been tracked into a lifetime goal by careful parental and social management of expectations and capabilities. And most young men have not been tracked into a lifetime goal at eighteen.

Eighteen is a point of zero stability for--I'd say now--the great majority of young men. Remember most young men in the US are not headed for college and have not been trained for anything else, nor have they been guided into a path toward any particular useful life. It's the point that many young men get gobsmacked by the fact that they are not prepared to live.

If we create an America that gets 18-year-old young men safely past this point, we will have substantially improved the situation. But in actually, America cares nothing about 18-year-old men today.

That's where we have a major problem right now. There was never any real plan or place or expectation for young men like Salvador Ramos. In this case, it was Orlando Harris who wrote of himself: "I don't have any friends, I don't have any family, I've never had a girlfriend, I've never had a social life." Harris called himself an "isolated loner," and a "perfect storm for a mass shooter."

America is a tough country to live in. There is opportunity for great success, but the chances of terrible failure are far, far greater. The definition of "success" is far more narrow in America, and the definition of "failure" in America is far more broad.

America is more dog-eat-dog than any Western industrialized nation, a social Darwinism of "only the most fit will survive." A whole lot of people are a paycheck away from homelessness, or one doctor visit away from bankruptcy. Many--if not most--Americans are at some level of constant despair that what they have is perishable and what they want is unattainable.

We have few social safety nets, and half the population wants to snatch even those away.

We eschew connectedness and pursue separateness. We sneer at "it takes a village" and praise "you're on your own."

There is a grimness, a hardness, a callousness, a despair to life in America unlike other Western countries.

And that's going to lead to more mental health problems, more rage, more addiction, more suicides, and more homicides. American life makes people crazy. We've built the country to be this way.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

Those kids who frequent the range with their dads are very definitely not the kids shooting up schools.

That's not what I meant It was an example of how guns are a part of American society. If it wasn't guns but harpoons that are so integrated into your society then these school-shootings would happen with harpoons instead of guns.
The difference between the US and Europe here is that in Europe there is no "weapon-culture". Most people here never get to see a gun their entire life.

 

[FireDragon76]

Americans have a cult of guns, militarism, and fear.

 

[FireDragon76]

Many blame guns (many Europeans countries allow access to guns yet none of this happens)...

Many European countries don't allow easy access to guns. In Switzerland, long hailed by the NRA as a bastion of gun ownership, you can lose your right to own a gun for relatively trivial reasons, such as traffic violations. Guns in Switzerland are part of national defense, not an absolute individual right.

 

[RDKirk]

Many European countries don't allow easy access to guns. In Switzerland, long hailed by the NRA as a bastion of gun ownership, you can lose your right to own a gun for relatively trivial reasons, such as traffic violations. Guns in Switzerland are part of national defense, not an absolute individual right.

They do have some interesting guns and beer parties, though.

 

[rambot]

I've said this before, so I'll copy and paste:

When I was a kid in the 50s and 60s, the main point of discussion any adult had with a kid was: "What are you going to be when you grow up?" I got that constantly. If a random adult on the street spoke to me at all, it was to ask, "What are you going to be when you grow up?"

That question makes two points: A. We expect you to grow up and be something. B. The choice is yours to make...so make it. Even if you change your mind numerous times, at least have a goal.

Eighteen years old, particularly in a young man's life, is a point of extreme psychological stress in the US. It's the point that someone who has been treated as a child all his life is suddenly treated as an adult.

We can get more into the myriad details, but it's a psychological do-or-die point for many young men if they hadn't already been tracked into a lifetime goal by careful parental and social management of expectations and capabilities. And most young men have not been tracked into a lifetime goal at eighteen.

Eighteen is a point of zero stability for--I'd say now--the great majority of young men. Remember most young men in the US are not headed for college and have not been trained for anything else, nor have they been guided into a path toward any particular useful life. It's the point that many young men get gobsmacked by the fact that they are not prepared to live.

If we create an America that gets 18-year-old young men safely past this point, we will have substantially improved the situation. But in actually, America cares nothing about 18-year-old men today.

That's where we have a major problem right now. There was never any real plan or place or expectation for young men like Salvador Ramos. In this case, it was Orlando Harris who wrote of himself: "I don't have any friends, I don't have any family, I've never had a girlfriend, I've never had a social life." Harris called himself an "isolated loner," and a "perfect storm for a mass shooter."

America is a tough country to live in. There is opportunity for great success, but the chances of terrible failure are far, far greater. The definition of "success" is far more narrow in America, and the definition of "failure" in America is far more broad.

America is more dog-eat-dog than any Western industrialized nation, a social Darwinism of "only the most fit will survive." A whole lot of people are a paycheck away from homelessness, or one doctor visit away from bankruptcy. Many--if not most--Americans are at some level of constant despair that what they have is perishable and what they want is unattainable.

We have few social safety nets, and half the population wants to snatch even those away.

We eschew connectedness and pursue separateness. We sneer at "it takes a village" and praise "you're on your own."

There is a grimness, a hardness, a callousness, a despair to life in America unlike other Western countries.

And that's going to lead to more mental health problems, more rage, more addiction, more suicides, and more homicides. American life makes people crazy. We've built the country to be this way.

Because of everything you write here and americas unwillingness to change those things it seems gun control is the only other real option.

 

[Genenco]

The 'root' includes but is not limited to the mind changing medicines kids are given.
But to the title - why not so much in other countries ?
Many possible reasons,
or maybe false news from other countries .... the violence, deaths, etc , in some countries may not be known at all ?

I'd agree on medication. "She goes running for the shelter of mother's little helper"

Kids are dosed with Ritalin, and other drugs to "calm them down" or "make them controllable"

The biggest issue? Social Media. Kids have been posting messages, memes and videos mocking, sneering and pointing out someone's failing. When someone is "Different" it's a question if they're wanting to live or not.

If not, Parkland, Columbine are the result. If so, they will walk away, commit suicide or just internalize it and limp through life.

Or seek therapy, hopefully not with drugs.

 

[Desk trauma]

I'd agree on medication. "She goes running for the shelter of mother's little helper"

Kids are dosed with Ritalin, and other drugs to "calm them down" or "make them controllable"

The biggest issue? Social Media. Kids have been posting messages, memes and videos mocking, sneering and pointing out someone's failing. When someone is "Different" it's a question if they're wanting to live or not.

If not, Parkland, Columbine are the result. If so, they will walk away, commit suicide or just internalize it and limp through life.

Or seek therapy, hopefully not with drugs.

It really is unfortunate that the Columbine was the result of bullying narrative has hung on. Also, good to see that social media has now gained a time machine and made itself an issue prior to it existing.

 

[RDKirk]

The biggest issue? Social Media. Kids have been posting messages, memes and videos mocking, sneering and pointing out someone's failing. When someone is "Different" it's a question if they're wanting to live or not.

If not, Parkland, Columbine are the result. If so, they will walk away, commit suicide or just internalize it and limp through life.

It is important to realize that school shootings like that are, at base, suicides. They never plan to live through them.

 

[Genenco]

It really is unfortunate that the Columbine was the result of bullying narrative has hung on. Also, good to see that social media has now gained a time machine and made itself an issue prior to it existing.

Well obviously Columbine was before the social media advent, but reading accounts of how those two were treated by others, does clear up much.

Or whats your casual view?

 

[Desk trauma]

Or whats your casual view?

Anti-social personality disorder and access to firearms.