Why are most Christians so accepting of magic

rainingviolets said:

That's exactly my point. We don't watch or read the items and the only reason they are received is because someone else gifts them to us. I know Harry Potter is demonic because of all the advertising everywhere. I don't need to read it to know what it's about. The same with popular movies and books like Hunger Games. With everyone talking about them you don't need to pick up the book to know what it is about. The stuff that goes in the trash is what was given to us by aunts and cousins.

Click to expand...

It seems that there is something in you that needs to be addressed.....but instead of addressing that one thing one time....you decide to continue to remove things on the outside and are content with doing this for the rest of your life.

e.g. instead of plucking out the eye....you, instead, are content with just pushing things out of your view.

And this is ok if this is the only option you has for now....please do not take plucking eyes literally.

Kaon said:

I am not talking about that side of the coin. I am talking about the other side of the coin en Christians ignore - like demons, principalities, archons, fallen angels and other interdimensional entities.

It is "luck" to be ignorant of these things because in this case it may be bliss. It is a luxury to be able to ignore the reality of the spirit world - even if it is ignorance and denial of the Most High God. Most entities in the Creation don't have the luxury to completely ignore the reality around them - even exchange it for something else.



I think every entity trembles when they hear the Word of God Himself - which is what the OT prophets and patriarchs heard when they heard Someone speak directly on behalf of the Most High God. Israel asked for men to do things the Most High God had planned for us because of ignorance. They chose to ignore His statutes and His commandments, and were ignorant to the degeneracy of man when they begged for men to do things the Most High God had set up for them.



They may affect people who are ignorant, but it would be more detrimental for entities to substantiate their existence against a "well reasoned, logical argument" already invested in by the host human. It is much more logical to leave people alone who already (unconsciously) work in your favor. This isn't such a sophisticated tactic; humans do this to each other all of the time.

The ignorant will always reach a point at which the ignorance becomes critical: and then, it is better for the entity to stay "as is" than it is for the entity to start the arduous psychological journey of coming out of ignorance - something that could do even more irreparable damage.

People can barely handle the fact that ghosts exist; most people would collapse under the idea of the fullness of their surroundings.




Did I say that?

I alluded to the fact that it is a luxury to be ignorant of the spiritual realm. I don't regret my own knowledge or experience.

Individuals choose to remain ignorant; my want is irrelevant, and there is no such thing as my truth. The Truth Himself is available to everyone; it should be an immediate reaction to compare what anyone says to the Truth - including angels and such.

Click to expand...

You sound like you know what you are talking about.... However, Im sure you have read erroneous words of many, who, to the less knowledgeable, also sounds like they know what they are talking about.

I am just not for the promotion of ignorance.... and this is why I responded. The encouragement of ignorance, to me, sound more worrisome coming from one who claims they have this knowledge in question.

However I find no fault in you doing this....Just wanted the readers to see an alternate view.

Lack of knowledge can cause one to perish.

And there is a "your truth," .......for God reveals what we are ready to bare. Maybe you have seen the north side of the tree and I, the south.......two totally different pictures of the same true one tree. Yet your true drawing is not mine. Which makes it important not to dismiss things just because it looks foreign to us.

I find no fault in your beliefs.....My reply was mainly to introduce an alternate side to the promotion of ignorance.

2PhiloVoid said:

Well, so much for the old proverb about not judging a book by its cover ... !

Click to expand...

*Sigh* A Christian does not have to read a secular sinful book, or watch a sinful secular movie to know that it is secular, worldly, and sinful (in most cases). A Christian has nothing to hide when putting forth their Christian works (Like a Christian movie, Christian novel, Christian comic, etc.). We are happy to talk about Jesus and in following Him. But most who try to hide Jesus, and or in following Him in their creative works, also promote sin of some kind. While this is not always the case, most of the time it is. Hunger Games is sinful. I don't have to watch or read that junk to know that it is. I can just do a Google search right now, and see what it is about... "And yep. Sure enough, it is sinful."

Here is the first article that appears on the Hunger Games that comes up in a Google search result (using the keywords "Hunger Games is sinful").

Hunger Games Are "Mocking" God - Little Light Studios

Jason0047 said:

*Sigh* A Christian does not have to read a secular sinful book, or watch a sinful secular movie to know that it is secular, worldly, and sinful (in most cases). A Christian has nothing to hide when putting forth their Christian works (Like a Christian movie, Christian novel, Christian comic, etc.). We are happy to talk about Jesus and in following Him. But most who try to hide Jesus, and or in following Him in their creative works, also promote sin of some kind. While this is not always the case, most of the time it is. Hunger Games is sinful. I don't have to watch or read that junk to know that it is. I can just do a Google search right now, and see what it is about... "And yep. Sure enough, it is sinful."

Here is the first article that appears on the Hunger Games that comes up in a Google search result (using the keywords "Hunger Games is sinful").

Hunger Games Are "Mocking" God - Little Light Studios

Click to expand...

It might also be a good thing to investigate the literary intentions and beliefs of the Hunger Game books and series before making a final judgment call ... I don't think she had quite the same inclinations as other authors. In fact, I'd say she's more in line with J.R.R. Tolkien or C.S. Lewis than she is with, say, J.K. Rowling or Anne Rice, or some other more secularized or new agey authors.

But whatever. I'm not insisting or telling anyone that "they must see these films and read these books." If they don't want to, then don't. What I would have them read is Romans chapter 14 ... again, and maybe all that additional stuff Paul talks about with the Corinthian church involving "meat sacrificed to idols." And then think about all of this really, really deeply.

Some of those disagreeing with me are married...do you have children?? My main point was that it is the parents responsibility to build a strong spiritual foundation and keep occult items out of the hands of our children. Are you actually disagreeing with me on that point? As a parent do you really think it's okay to give your children spiritually questionable material? On that point, I need to leave for several hours. I'm honestly not bailing out! Thanks for the debate...I loved it!

2PhiloVoid said:

It might also be a good thing to investigate the literary intentions and beliefs of the Hunger Game books and series before making a final judgment call ... I don't think she had quite the same inclinations as other authors. In fact, I'd say she's more in line with J.R.R. Tolkien or C.S. Lewis than she is with, say, J.K. Rowling or Anne Rice, or some other more secularized or new agey authors.

But whatever. I'm not insisting or telling anyone that "they must see these films and read these books." If they don't want to, then don't. What I would have them read is Romans chapter 14 ... again, and maybe all that additional stuff Paul talks about with the Corinthian church involving "meat sacrificed to idols." And then think about all of this really, really deeply.

Click to expand...

Taken from the article:

"These movies have two major themes, rebellion and murder. Now, the fact that our current society would praise any films that center around children murdering each other is disturbing in and of itself."

The Bible says:

"Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things arelovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things" (Philippians 4:8).

One is not putting into practice the above verse if they are watching or reading Hunger Games.

interesting, I find nothing demonic with Harry Potter. It's got a positive attitude towards "good witches and wizards" and negative attitude towards killers. Perhaps what the children society needs to hear in this day and age with school shootings and such.

LOL, I can't believe the views here. They're so extreme. I use common sense when watching witchcraft movies. And I have seen evil witchcraft movies, but I wouldn't do what they are portraying.

I think if your the type of person that is highly suggestible then definitely don't watch movies like that. But if your personality is strong in Christ, then it's more like keeping an eye open for what the state of the world is today. You can't do that by hiding out from the world.

devin553344 said:

interesting, I find nothing demonic with Harry Potter. It's got a positive attitude towards "good witches and wizards" and negative attitude towards killers. Perhaps what the children society needs to hear in this day and age with school shootings and such.

LOL, I can't believe the views here. They're so extreme. I use common sense when watching witchcraft movies. And I have seen evil witchcraft movies, but I wouldn't do what they are portraying.

I think if your the type of person that is highly suggestible then definitely don't watch movies like that. But if your personality is strong in Christ, then it's more like keeping an eye open for what the state of the world is today. You can't do that by hiding out from the world.

Click to expand...

I didn't say Harry Potter is out and out Satanism. It's just that when I evaluate the qualities of a piece of art, literature or a movie, I do analyze the background input which the authors/writers/directors had in the construction and production process of creating that particular work. Obviously, Harry Potter, as well as Doctor Strange, are miles apart from earnestly promoting Witchcraft (i.e. 'real' forms of modern or ancient sorcery).

Because we don’t have a problem differentiating fantasy from reality.

Strathos said:

Because the 'magic' you see in fiction is... fictional. Imagine that.

Click to expand...

Strathos said:

If popular media was teaching people how to do real magic, you'd see it happening on the street every day.

Go ahead and try to cast a spell as described in Harry Potter or Dungeons and Dragons. I guarantee you that nothing will happen (aside from making yourself look incredibly silly).

Click to expand...

I've been a fan of Harry Potter since I saw the first movie in 2001. I've been a fan ever since I saw the first movie and read the first book. I shared my love for the books with all seven of my children and they grew up to love Harry Potter too. However, not one of them has ever expressed the slightest inclination that they wanted to become a witch or wizard themselves. They all know that Harry Potter is fantasy just like The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, and The Chronicles of Narnia.

Of course, I've encountered some opposition from some very noisy Christian parents, but I've always been able to stand my ground. I've had a much easier time since Looking For God in Harry Potter by John Granger came out. I've bought that book several times to give to another parent who unfairly criticized my husband and I for allowing our children to read Harry Potter. Some of the parents said they refused to read the book because nothing would change their mind, but the parents who did read the book came back later to apologize to my husband and I for criticizing us. They said that their mind was changed after reading the book and they also thanked me for giving them the book.

I admire the way Rowling responded to all the criticism and accusations from Christians: "I absolutely did not start writing these books to encourage any child into witchcraft. I'm laughing slightly because to me the idea is absurd. I have met thousands of children now, and not even one time has a child come up to me and said, 'Ms. Rowling, I'm so glad I've read these books because now I want to be a witch.' They see it for what it is. It is a fantasy world and they understand that completely."

Harry Potter does have some very positive effects on the children who read the books.

Study: Kids Who Read Harry Potter Grow Up to Be Better People

Science Says Kids Who Read 'Harry Potter' Are Just Better Human Beings In General

Study finds kids who read Harry Potter books become more tolerant of minority groups

Psychology Today: Does Reading Harry Potter Books Reduce Prejudice?: Readers who identify with Harry Potter show less prejudice against minorities. According to a recent study, "The Greatest Magic of Harry Potter: Reducing Prejudice," young people who've read the Harry Potter books—and identify with Harry as the main protagonist—are less likely to be biased or prejudiced against minority groups. The team of researchers from Italy found that reading Harry Potter books improves children’s attitudes toward stigmatized groups that included: immigrants, refugees, and members of the LGBT community.

RaymondG said:

You sound like you know what you are talking about.... However, Im sure you have read erroneous words of many, who, to the less knowledgeable, also sounds like they know what they are talking about.

I am just not for the promotion of ignorance.... and this is why I responded. The encouragement of ignorance, to me, sound more worrisome coming from one who claims they have this knowledge in question.

Click to expand...

If that is what you are worried about...


Honest answer? I stand by what I said - even though I understand your qualms, even, I share them. However, that is part of the work and experience we have to go through. Every entity is a possible antichrist, and we have to test those spirits in order to get the truth.

I do not have the luxury to deny, because I have had experience with it. Other people may get knowledge through academic ways (believing in this plane of existence, and understanding the dynamics). This academic way is magic.

I am not promoting ignorance; I am promoting people stay in their place until they are called to be involved. I would rather someone stay ignorant of this world than be bombarded by the evidence thereof. However, I would also rather someone leave the occult and spirit world alone, instead of playing with ouija boars dozens of times, and wondering why their kitchen table levitates at 3:00am every night. There is no reason for someone to be ignorant, but the ignorant don't realize how much of a luxury it is to be that way.

The spirit world is seen as controversial in a religion whose Primary Deity speaks about the spirit world constantly. Where is someone who is ignorant of this facet of life going to learn about it except by experience? We are all too hardened to believe fantastic things, so it would take experience for most of us to understand and come out of ignorance.

However I find no fault in you doing this....Just wanted the readers to see an alternate view.

Click to expand...

I understand.

Lack of knowledge can cause one to perish.

And there is a "your truth," .......for God reveals what we are ready to bare. Maybe you have seen the north side of the tree and I, the south.......two totally different pictures of the same true one tree. Yet your true drawing is not mine. Which makes it important not to dismiss things just because it looks foreign to us.

I find no fault in your beliefs.....My reply was mainly to introduce an alternate side to the promotion of ignorance.

Click to expand...

I will tell you this: there is only one Truth. Multiple truths = delusion and marginalization. Feelings and experiences lie; you need to go by Truth Himself, and by faith if don't want your brain to literally collapse in its own calcium shell. So, while lack of knowledge can cause one to perish, the Truth Himself saves by His own strength and power; even the most ignorant of us can be highly redeemable, and likely being used in a way to bring glory to the Truth Himself.

With that said, this is why everyone should follow their Father, because humans can be deceived, lie, steal, kill, etc. - even the best and most well-intended of us. So, ultimately it is up to the individual to make a choice. I am speaking from experience; there are multiple real facets of the spirit world that should not be played with.

I believe it is a luxury to be ignorant. But, like most luxuries they don't actually increase you in any substantive way - though, they provide a veneer of security.

To all:

Please see this article by an ex Satanist turned Christian in regards to the Harry Potter films:

http://www.harrypottermagic.org/big_deal_hp_2.htm

My Testimony:

I used to play Dungeons and Dragons as a kid. As a result of my playing this game, I wanted to see if could cast a real spell in real life. I did not do try to do such things before playing such a game. Granted, I am glad nothing came out of my momentary interest in wanting to dabble in sorcery or witchcraft before I became a Christian, but what if things were different? What if I was different and I wanted to take it more seriously?

Folks. The devil wants to destroy you, and he does not care how he does it.
If you think that watching or fantasizing about sinful things cannot effect you or your children, you are in for a big surprise. The day you stumble into a sin in watching a secular sinful movie should be your next big clue that God is talking to you to stop indulging in such junk. God wants our whole hearts and not just an ounce of them.

God does not want us to hold hands in loving the world, and in holding hands with Him.

Jesus says we cannot serve two masters. For we will end up hating one and loving the other. I pray that that believers will be encourage by what I say here, and that they will love God and make Him the Lord of their life even more (not in words alone, but in deeds and actions).

Anyways, I hope this helps somebody today;
May the Lord's goodness be upon you all.

With loving kindness to you all in Christ,

Sincerely,

~ Jason.

I think this Christian movie trailer speaks to the topic at hand:


Note: This is a wonderful Christian film that I had seen in Stony Brook, New York. If you are interested in seeing this Christian film that can inspired you to follow the Lord, you can check to see if it is playing in your area at the bottom of this website.

Play The Flute Movie

Note 2: I hope it will be movies like this that folks here will want to watch alone instead of watching movies that promote sinful things like sorcery, adultery, lying, cuss words, using violence to resolve our problems, etc.

2PhiloVoid said:

Well, so much for the old proverb about not judging a book by its cover ... !

Click to expand...

I think this has more to do with live and let live. As a Christian myself, I can respect other Christians who are against practically everything that isn't Christian related, no matter what it is. I don't argue with some Christian who tries to argue with me about allowing my children to read Harry Potter. I either suggest that they read Looking For God in Harry Potter or I firmly tell them to mind their own business and walk away. I refuse to be drawn into such sanctimonious argumentative nonsense.

Shiloh Raven said:

I think this has more to do with live and let live. As a Christian myself, I can respect other Christians who are against practically everything that isn't Christian related, no matter what it is. I don't argue with some Christian who tries to argue with me about allowing my children to read Harry Potter. I either suggest that they read Looking For God in Harry Potter or I firmly tell them to mind their own business and walk away. I refuse to be drawn into such sanctimonious argumentative nonsense.

Click to expand...

The sin of witchcraft was so serious to God in the Old Testament, that he actually had anyone who did witchcraft or sorcery to be put to death. So if God entered the universe of Harry Potter, He would actually end up killing everyone or He would have His people kill everyone in the Harry Potter universe. So the God you imagine that is passive to witchcraft does not exist according to the Bible. God is very much against witchcraft and sorcery. Just because some author or movie creator says that his work is fiction or fantasy does not undo the reality of sin. No author or movie creator can change the reality of sin that the Bible clearly condemns. Indulging in watching the sin of witchcraft puts your stamp of approval upon that sin (Whether you like it or not). It would be like watching a cartoon porn movie and then say that you are not in approval of fornication or adultery. Surely you realize that a cartoon porn movie wrong, right? Surely the sin of fornication and adultery is being promoted in these films. If so, then why do you not see a problem with the sin of witchcraft being promoted in a film?

Shiloh Raven said:

I think this has more to do with live and let live. As a Christian myself, I can respect other Christians who are against practically everything that isn't Christian related, no matter what it is. I don't argue with some Christian who tries to argue with me about allowing my children to read Harry Potter. I either suggest that they read Looking For God in Harry Potter or I firmly tell them to mind their own business and walk away. I refuse to be drawn into such sanctimonious argumentative nonsense.

Click to expand...

My sympathies, Shiloh. I think that from what I've read of your writing here on CF in the past, you and I have some common ground. But on my part, I'm going to go for the 'educational jugular' and press the need among Christians to perform deeper hermeneutical evaluations. Of course, I know I can't expect positive nor reformatory results across the board, but hey, one can only hope!

Jason0047 said:

The sin of witchcraft was so serious to God in the Old Testament, that he actually had anyone who did witchcraft or sorcery to be put to death. So if God entered the universe of Harry Potter, He would actually end up killing everyone or He would have His people kill everyone in the Harry Potter universe. So the God you imagine that is passive to witchcraft does not exist according to the Bible. God is very much against witchcraft and sorcery. Just because some author or movie creator says that his work is fiction or fantasy does not undo the reality of sin. No author or movie creator can change the reality of sin that the Bible clearly condemns. Indulging in watching the sin of witchcraft puts your stamp of approval upon that sin (Whether you like it or not). It would be like watching a cartoon porn movie and then say that you are not in approval of fornication or adultery. Surely you realize that a cartoon porn movie wrong, right? Surely the sin of fornication and adultery is being promoted in these films. If so, then why do you not see a problem with the sin of witchcraft being promoted in a film?

Click to expand...

With all due respect, you can take your lecture elsewhere because I'm not going to be lectured and preached to by some stranger on the internet. My life choices are honestly none of your business.

2PhiloVoid said:

My sympathies, Shiloh. I think that from what I've read of your writing here on CF in the past, you and I some some common ground. But on my part, I'm going to go for the 'educational jugular' and press the need among Christians to perform deeper hermeneutical evaluations. Of course, I know I can't expect positive nor reformatory results across the board, but hey, one can only hope!

Click to expand...

Thank you for your kind response, my friend. I truly appreciate it.

tryphena rose said:

In so much of our media and entertainment such as books, television shows, movies, video games and even music, magic is something that isn't used sparingly throughout the list of "creative" ideas to the world. In fact, it's getting harder to deter away from entertainment that doesn't contain some type of occult idea that defies the Truths of God.

When I first became a Christian, this was a big conviction for me as I wasn't into practicing anything occultic nor did I even believe it was true, however I was influenced by occult ideas based off of the media I was consuming, whether I had known it or not. As this was one of my very first convictions and I was strongly led by the Holy Spirit to turn from these things, I quickly saw how this wasn't the case for a majority of others. When things like Disney and Harry Potter are so popular, even among professing Christians, I'm left wondering how can this be so?

Talk to any born again believer who has come out of the new age movement and they understand how serious this is, because they've seen how far too real the deception of the enemy is to be lenient with these kinds of ideas, even at the expense of their own pleasure. In Revelation 21:8 the Bible says that sorcerers will have their part in the lake of fire. If this is taken seriously by God to include these kinds of people in the lake of fire, then why aren't the very ideas and practices that will put these people in the lake of fire, taken more seriously among Christians?

Click to expand...

Guilty as charged! I enjoy science fiction, horror flicks, zombie stuff etc however, it is just mindless entertainment. I also have no conviction when watching these shows. So now what? Am I no longer a Christian? I think not.