Why are most Christians so accepting of magic

Bible Highlighter · Jul 19, 2020

Witchcraft is operating by a power (usually by SPELLS) outside the power of God.
They cast spells in these movies! Narnia, Potter.

Hello?

Where in God's Word do the apostles cast spells?
They don't. We know that sorcerers only cast spells.
I shouldn't even have to be telling people this.
Then again, I should not have to tell people to wear a mask while they are around a bunch of other people during the current situation in our country.
Some folks say it is their right. Some folks say it is conspiracy theory.
But people see what they want to see.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Jul 19, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
I have read C.S. Lewis.

The Voyage of the Dawn Treader" is the third book in the Narnia series. It directly promotes spells and magic.

Chapter 10 ("The Magician's Book") features a book of spells that is on an island inhabited by invisible creatures called Dufflepuds. Lucy works a spell to make the Dufflepuds visible. She goes through a spell book. Then she finds the right spell and says the words and follows the instructions. And then the Dufflepuds (and Aslan) become visible. Her spell made Aslan visible, and he is pleased with what she did.

One spell is illustrated with pictures of bees that look as if they are really flying. In the world of C.S. Lewis’ day, this would not have caused practical problems. However, these days, kids can go to regular bookstores and buy spell books written by modern witches.

Many Christians are treating the Narnia books as being an allegory, with Aslan representing Jesus and the children representing Christians. If you do this with “The Voyage of the Dawn Treader,” then you portray Jesus as being pleased when Christians do magic and work spells. And you support the idea that that there are “good” spells and “good” magic. That belief is the basis for modern “white” witchcraft. However, the Bible clearly forbids any form of witchcraft:

"There shall not be found among you anyone who... practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD." (Deuteronomy 18:10-12)

Source:
Trouble in Narnia: The Occult Side of C.S. Lewis

In other words, if a character (in the series) casts a spell, that is clearly a practice of sorcery that the Bible condemns. There is never an instance where casting a spell or sorcery is ever approved of by God. So Lewis promoting the sin of witchcraft in the series (with no correction upon such a sin). It does not matter if the sin of witchcraft leads to a positive solution or not (if there is no correction on the sin of witchcraft itself). The same can be said if adultery was promoted in the film. If a person commits adultery, and the result lead them to a happy ending, it is even worse because it is teaching that good things will happen to you if you sin. Both adultery and sorcery are a promotion of sin if such a thing is not corrected or rebuked.

What were the words you typed into google to get that website? CS Lewis, Narnia, Satanic, Witchcraft? Just curious.

Because I doubt you've read the Narnia books or anything CS Lewis wrote, be that his letters, his Christian apologetic or other works of fiction. You're probably the type to think Lewis' 'Till we have Faces,' is literally promoting paganism because it is set in ancient Greece and speaks of the gods.

What gets me about fundamentalist readings of Lewis or anything in fantasy fiction in general is that they cannot discern the use of tropes or story elements from endorsement. It's a surface level reading, much how fundamentalists read the Bible. Thus you seem incapable of seeing actual point behind the story.

You seem to think an element of a story indicates a sort of endorsement, not only that you aren't even taking into consideration the internal rules of the fantasy world. Magic, within Narnia has two facets. There is the sort of evil magic the White witch would use, but then there's also the Deep Magic which allows Aslan to come back from the dead. Then again, perhaps you interpret that as CS Lewis encouraging literal magic for resurrection.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 19, 2020

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
What were the words you typed into google to get that website? CS Lewis, Narnia, Satanic, Witchcraft? Just curious.

Because I doubt you've read the Narnia books or anything CS Lewis wrote, be that his letters, his Christian apologetic or other works of fiction. You're probably the type to think Lewis' 'Till we have Faces,' is literally promoting paganism because it is set in ancient Greece and speaks of the gods.

What gets me about fundamentalist readings of Lewis or anything in fantasy fiction in general is that they cannot discern the use of tropes or story elements from endorsement. It's a surface level reading, much how fundamentalists read the Bible. Thus you seem incapable of seeing actual point behind the story.

You seem to think an element of a story indicates a sort of endorsement, not only that you aren't even taking into consideration the internal rules of the fantasy world. Magic, within Narnia has two facets. There is the sort of evil magic the White witch would use, but then there's also the Deep Magic which allows Aslan to come back from the dead. Then again, perhaps you interpret that as CS Lewis encouraging literal magic for resurrection.

So you believe that a cartoon porn movie can be Christian?
I am sure someone could say I am not looking deeper beyond the sin promoted in this kind of film without any rebuke, but we both know that would be a joke.
Again, without any rebuke of the witchcraft, it is a promotion of evil that the Bible condemns. Why on Earth you don't see it is beyond me. Do believe in not wearing masks while you are around a bunch of other people?

steve78 · Jul 19, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Come on now. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that the fantasy magic used in movies is a representation of the real sorcery or magic used by those who are witches or sorcerers. That would be like saying a cartoon dog is not based upon a real dog in any way. Even if it is not exactly identical, it is at the core the same concept. Ex witches turned Christian can spot a ton of the same occult things in these books and movies. Just read their testimonies.

If the Narnia series were true Christian movies, then that means a person can label a porn movie as Christian because it has Christian elements within it. Such talk is ridiculousness.

What witches use is science, not magic. Magic is just science we have yet to understand. A lot of witchcraft is also trickery so are things like spiritual mediums. If you went back to the middle ages and show people your smart phone your would be burnt as a witch.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Jul 19, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
So you believe that a cartoon porn movie can be Christian?

No I don't and your comparison is ridiculous. You cannot expect anyone to take seriously the Idea that CS Lewis was literally promoting witchcraft. As in pagan magic, instead of using it as a device in his story for children. Same goes for many Fantasy writers, the use of a trope or Idea does not equal endorsement and is more often than not simply an Idea to make the story more interesting or explore things a more realistic setting wouldn't.

This would be akin to thinking that when Tolkien described the creation of Middle Earth as a Song, he was in fact saying music in our world is literally magical. Or That CS Lewis literally believed Jesus is a lion in another world and that on Venus there is an Eden there with a new Adam and new Eve or that when we die we are taken away in a bus to heaven.

steve78 · Jul 19, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
The Old Testament strongly condemns witchcraft. If a person lived during the time of the Old Testament, and they practiced witchcraft, they would have been killed by the Israelites (if they were aware of them and faithful to God's Word). The New Testament also condemns witchcraft. So the Narnia series are not Christian just because they have that label slapped on to them. It would be no different than promoting porn in a movie, and slapping a label of Christian on it. Both are serious sins in the eyes of God.

The Israelites were ignorant people, anything they failed to comprehend or understand was either supernatural or witchcraft. Imagine what the response would be if you could go back and meet moses or noah and show them your wrist watch.

steve78 · Jul 19, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Witchcraft is operating by a power (usually by SPELLS) outside the power of God.
They cast spells in these movies! Narnia, Potter.

Do spells work though?

And even if they do the person using them is just using a form of advanced science. Computers need a code to be written to work, spells are not much different except they use words instead of Mathmatics.

mlepfitjw · Jul 19, 2020

Deleted

Bible Highlighter · Jul 19, 2020

My encouragement is for those who disagree to read up on how God condemned witchcraft and sorcery more in your Bible. Read some Christian articles on the topic, as well. Pray about it. Don't just try to justify what you want to be true because you like to be entertained by worldly books and movies.

Again, a person cannot slap the label “Christian label” on a porn movie, or add Christian themes to a porn movie and say it is now Christian. Things just do not work like that.

Sorcery is still a sin, and even ex witches turned Christian will tell you that the fantasy junk uses the same things in witchcraft that they used can be found in these books and movies.

If the sin of witchcraft was rebuked, or shown as being evil, then that would be different. But Harry Potter and Narnia do not treat magic as an evil thing from God (like the Bible does).

Those who have ears to hear and eyes to see will hear and see what I said.

Archivist · Jul 20, 2020

So, no Shakespeare? After all, Hamlet has a ghost, Macbeth has three witches and A Midsummer Nights Dream has fairies. A lot of classical music is out. No Hall of the Mountain King by Greg or Symphonie Fantastique by Berlioz. The musical Cats is out. After all, it shows a cat going up to the Heaviside Layer to be reborn. Even Grimms’ Fairy Tales is gone. You will have a very boring life.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 20, 2020

Archivist said:
So, no Shakespeare? After all, Hamlet has a ghost, Macbeth has three witches and A Midsummer Nights Dream has fairies. A lot of classical music is out. No Hall of the Mountain King by Greg or Symphonie Fantastique by Berlioz. The musical Cats is out. After all, it shows a cat going up to the Heaviside Layer to be reborn. Even Grimms’ Fairy Tales is gone. You will have a very boring life.

Yes, we should throw it all if it promotes magic of some kind.
Sorcery is condemned in the Old Testament.
Men today have made entertainment an idol in their lives and thus they are unable to see that magic, cuss words, etc. are sins in movies.

Archivist · Jul 20, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Yes, we should throw it all if it promotes magic of some kind.
Sorcery is condemned in the Old Testament.
Men today have made entertainment an idol in their lives and thus they are unable to see that magic, cuss words, etc. are sins in movies.

You go ahead and think that. This Christian will continue to enjoy Shakespeare and classical music and musicals and good books. Don’t think I mentioned any movies except that some of Shakespeare’s plays and the musical Cats have been made into movies.

Bible Highlighter · Jul 20, 2020

Archivist said:
You go ahead and think that. This Christian will continue to enjoy Shakespeare and classical music and musicals and good books. Don’t think I mentioned any movies except that some of Shakespeare’s plays and the musical Cats have been made into movies.

In a way, I used to be where you are. I used to enjoy worldly entertainment. But there comes a time where the Lord will weed these things out of your life if you love Jesus more than you love the world or the things of this world. For me: Real entertainment is the kind that seeks to inspire a person to follow the Lord Jesus Christ or to obey His Word, etc. Worldy entertainment promotes sin and worldly ideas that just drags a person back into the ways of the world that no longer satisy. But only the Lord Jesus and His good ways can truly satisfy.

Archivist · Jul 20, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
In a way, I used to be where you are. I used to enjoy worldly entertainment. But there comes a time where the Lord will weed these things out of your life if you love Jesus more than you love the world or the things of this world. For me: Real entertainment is the kind that seeks to inspire a person to follow the Lord Jesus Christ or to obey His Word, etc. Worldy entertainment promotes sin and worldly ideas that just drags a person back into the ways of the world that no longer satisy. But only the Lord Jesus and His good ways can truly satisfy.

You go ahead and think that.

BryanJohnMaloney · Jul 21, 2020

tryphena rose said:
In so much of our media and entertainment such as books, television shows, movies, video games and even music, magic is something that isn't used sparingly throughout the list of "creative" ideas to the world. In fact, it's getting harder to deter away from entertainment that doesn't contain some type of occult idea that defies the Truths of God.

When I first became a Christian, this was a big conviction for me as I wasn't into practicing anything occultic nor did I even believe it was true, however I was influenced by occult ideas based off of the media I was consuming, whether I had known it or not. As this was one of my very first convictions and I was strongly led by the Holy Spirit to turn from these things, I quickly saw how this wasn't the case for a majority of others. When things like Disney and Harry Potter are so popular, even among professing Christians, I'm left wondering how can this be so?

Talk to any born again believer who has come out of the new age movement and they understand how serious this is, because they've seen how far too real the deception of the enemy is to be lenient with these kinds of ideas, even at the expense of their own pleasure. In Revelation 21:8 the Bible says that sorcerers will have their part in the lake of fire. If this is taken seriously by God to include these kinds of people in the lake of fire, then why aren't the very ideas and practices that will put these people in the lake of fire, taken more seriously among Christians?

Have you ever read 1st Corinthians 8?
"So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one."
"But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do. Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak."

In other words, reading fiction that mentions magic is nothing at all, if you actually understand it is fiction. The same is true of cartoons or other fictions. The problem is when those who are weak in faith and weak in knowledge see you using the fiction as mere entertainment, and being of very low intellectual ability and no real faith, think that it means that you are indulging in "real" magic, and that it's okay for Christians to indulge in "real" magic. We have to accommodate the weak-minded and weak-faithed among our brethren so as not to mislead them.

doctorwho29 · Jul 21, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
I have read C.S. Lewis.

The Voyage of the Dawn Treader" is the third book in the Narnia series. It directly promotes spells and magic.

Chapter 10 ("The Magician's Book") features a book of spells that is on an island inhabited by invisible creatures called Dufflepuds. Lucy works a spell to make the Dufflepuds visible. She goes through a spell book. Then she finds the right spell and says the words and follows the instructions. And then the Dufflepuds (and Aslan) become visible. Her spell made Aslan visible, and he is pleased with what she did.

One spell is illustrated with pictures of bees that look as if they are really flying. In the world of C.S. Lewis’ day, this would not have caused practical problems. However, these days, kids can go to regular bookstores and buy spell books written by modern witches.

Many Christians are treating the Narnia books as being an allegory, with Aslan representing Jesus and the children representing Christians. If you do this with “The Voyage of the Dawn Treader,” then you portray Jesus as being pleased when Christians do magic and work spells. And you support the idea that that there are “good” spells and “good” magic. That belief is the basis for modern “white” witchcraft. However, the Bible clearly forbids any form of witchcraft:

"There shall not be found among you anyone who... practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD." (Deuteronomy 18:10-12)

Source:
Trouble in Narnia: The Occult Side of C.S. Lewis

In other words, if a character (in the series) casts a spell, that is clearly a practice of sorcery that the Bible condemns. There is never an instance where casting a spell or sorcery is ever approved of by God. So Lewis promoting the sin of witchcraft in the series (with no correction upon such a sin). It does not matter if the sin of witchcraft leads to a positive solution or not (if there is no correction on the sin of witchcraft itself). The same can be said if adultery was promoted in the film. If a person commits adultery, and the result lead them to a happy ending, it is even worse because it is teaching that good things will happen to you if you sin. Both adultery and sorcery are a promotion of sin if such a thing is not corrected or rebuked.

Does it promote magic/witchcraft or simply tell a story? Seriously, along this line of thinking one would have to condemn pretty much every fairy tale, most Disney movies, a lot of cartoons...you'd basically have to go Amish to avoid all magic. Why not simply enjoy a nice story and know what to take away from it and what to leave? Why not simply teach one's children to do the same?

Bible Highlighter · Jul 21, 2020

doctorwho29 said:
Does it promote magic/witchcraft or simply tell a story? Seriously, along this line of thinking one would have to condemn pretty much every fairy tale, most Disney movies, a lot of cartoons...you'd basically have to go Amish to avoid all magic. Why not simply enjoy a nice story and know what to take away from it and what to leave? Why not simply teach one's children to do the same?

Tell the details of a story of sex outside of marriage, drunkenness, or child abuse, (without any correction of such sins), and you tell a story that promotes sin. Yes, I know. It is hard in our entertainment driven culture to accept that worldly secular entertainment is actually sinful, but it is. If you go out with some buddies that do sinful things, those sinful things can rub off on to you. It's no different with a sinful movie. Watch a movie with women showing their butts up against the screen and a man can lust and fall under condemnation in Matthew 5:28-30.

Take the sin you find most offensive, and imagine you read a similar story like that of Narnia without all the sorcery and witchcraft. But instead of magic, it was replaced with the sin that you hate the most instead. This sin was thrown in your face and never corrected and it was used as a backdrop to the story. Then to make it worse, they call it Christian because it has some Christian elements in the theme of the story all while the sin is silently being promoted in the background that you hate (without any correction of that sin being wrong).

At this point, if you do not see what I am talking about it is because this is a spiritual matter. Many here in America have made movies, books, comic books, video games, and music as their personal idols. Even many Christians are still hooked into this trap. I could not see it entirely myself until October of 2016. It was the month that I decided to put away secular entertainment out of my life for good. When I did so, the Lord opened my eyes to the evil of secular worldly entertainment. For many years I was a Christian and could not see it before.

The Lord will either one day show you the truth on this in your love for Him, or your love for the things of this world will take precedence over our Lord. One will have to give way.

doctorwho29 · Jul 21, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Tell the details of a story of sex outside of marriage, drunkenness, or child abuse, (without any correction of such sins), and you tell a story that promotes sin. Yes, I know. It is hard in our entertainment driven culture to accept that worldly secular entertainment is actually sinful, but it is. If you go out with some buddies that do sinful things, those sinful things can rub off on to you. It's no different with a sinful movie. Watch a movie with women showing their butts up against the screen and a man can lust and fall under condemnation in Matthew 5:28-30.

Take the sin you find most offensive, and imagine you read a similar story like that of Narnia without all the sorcery and witchcraft. But instead of magic, it was replaced with the sin that you hate the most instead. This sin was thrown in your face and never corrected and it was used as a backdrop to the story. Then to make it worse, they call it Christian because it has some Christian elements in the theme of the story all while the sin is silently being promoted in the background that you hate (without any correction of that sin being wrong).

At this point, if you do not see what I am talking about it is because this is a spiritual matter. Many here in America have made movies, books, comic books, video games, and music as their personal idols. Even many Christians are still hooked into this trap. I could not see it entirely myself until October of 2016. It was the month that I decided to put away secular entertainment out of my life for good. When I did so, the Lord opened my eyes to the evil of secular worldly entertainment. For many years I was a Christian and could not see it before.

The Lord will either one day show you the truth on this in your love for Him, or your love for the things of this world will take precedence over our Lord. One will have to give way.

I still think that you're overreacting. Sex and other such sins have a far more corrupting influence than a few spells in a totally fictional alternate world. A child can watch Cinderella, for example, and come away happy, uncorrupted and with some good morals. If Ella were having sex or getting naked on screen it would trigger something in the child's brain in a way that a Fairy Godmother doesn't. Yes, actually working witchcraft is wicked and sinful but in a story, in the proper context, it's not nearly as bad as you make it.

Do you have these same problems with Disney movies or the Wizard of Oz or any of these classics?

Bible Highlighter · Jul 21, 2020

BryanJohnMaloney said:
Have you ever read 1st Corinthians 8?
"So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one."
"But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do. Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak."

In other words, reading fiction that mentions magic is nothing at all, if you actually understand it is fiction. The same is true of cartoons or other fictions. The problem is when those who are weak in faith and weak in knowledge see you using the fiction as mere entertainment, and being of very low intellectual ability and no real faith, think that it means that you are indulging in "real" magic, and that it's okay for Christians to indulge in "real" magic. We have to accommodate the weak-minded and weak-faithed among our brethren so as not to mislead them.

Food is a necessity to live. Eating a piece of meat sacrificed to an idol also had restrictions, too. You could not eat such meat around certain individuals.

Food is a creation of God. No man change food so as to be sinful on a atomic level. But when men create a movie, and put their sinful ideas within them, then it is a sinful creation of man. They promote sin within these movies without any correction of such sins. Like hanging out with worldly old buddies that still sin, a secular movie, book, video game, comic book, or song can promote ideas of sin upon you and influence you to sin. I remember when I was a kid and I played Dungeons and Dragons. By my playing that game, I was influenced to wanting to cast a real spell. Good thing the Lord protected me from my brief desire at that time in my life from going down a wrong path, but sin being promoted in secular entertainment has a way of making you to want to sin in real life. It's just like hanging out with people who sin. It is no different. What fellowship does light have with darkness?

Bible Highlighter · Jul 21, 2020

doctorwho29 said:
I still think that you're overreacting. Sex and other such sins have a far more corrupting influence than a few spells in a totally fictional alternate world. A child can watch Cinderella, for example, and come away happy, uncorrupted and with some good morals. If Ella were having sex or getting naked on screen it would trigger something in the child's brain in a way that a Fairy Godmother doesn't. Yes, actually working witchcraft is wicked and sinful but in a story, in the proper context, it's not nearly as bad as you make it.

Do you have these same problems with Disney movies or the Wizard of Oz or any of these classics?

I don't think so. I used to want to cast a real spell as a part of my influence in playing Dungeons and Dragons back in the 80's. I had no problem wanting to mess with an Ouji board and other dark things because magic was just some kind of harmless fantasy thing to me. But little did I realize that after reading the Bible, I discovered that the sin of magic or witchcraft is condemned in the Old Testament and the New Testament. If you lived during the Old Testament times, if you practiced witchcraft, you would be put to death by the Israelite. It doesn't sound like God much has the same mind about this kind of sin as you do.

Why are most Christians so accepting of magic

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