Why Are Genocides Associated with Atheists and Evolutionists? Coincidence?

Aug 4, 2006
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Something I'd like to point out. The examples you give are mainly from the twentieth century. By this point, two trends are clear. One, that organised religion had lost much of its power. The Popes used to command armies; they no longer do. Two, that it was getting easier and easier to kill large amounts of people.
So, to answer your "why aren't religions responsible for genocidal events" question, perhaps we should consider that by the time the means existed for them to do so, they had lost the influence to make it happen.
Which, considering the long and bloody history of religions across the planet, is probably a very good thing.
 
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Whyayeman

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There are quite a few genocides throughout history which are specifically Christian. The Crusader armies in the 11th Century systematically slaughtered the Jews and Muslims as they conquered territory. That was pretty well everybody they encountered as there weren't many others. The Albigensian Crusade was specifically aimed at heretical Christians - the Cathars. There aren't any of them left. The Inquisition was another case of systematic killing. About 350,000 people were victims of judicial killing - to save their souls from damnation because they were 'secretly Jews'. This may not seem to be on the same scale, but proportionally similar given the populations of the periods.

There have been lots of genocides, many if not most of them justified by religion.
 
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Aug 4, 2006
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There are quite a few genocides throughout history which are specifically Christian. The Crusader armies in the 11th Century systematically slaughtered the Jews and Muslims as they conquered territory. That was pretty well everybody they encountered as there weren't many others. The Albigensian Crusade was specifically aimed at heretical Christians - the Cathars. There aren't any of them left. The Inquisition was another case of systematic killing. About 350,000 people were victims of judicial killing - to save their souls from damnation because they were 'secretly Jews'. This may not seem to be on the same scale, but proportionally similar given the populations of the periods.

There have been lots of genocides, many if not most of them justified by religion.

Can you imagine how many people Christians and Muslims would have wiped out throughout history if they had larger populations to kill, machine guns, and nuclear bombs?
 
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ViaCrucis

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Sometimes you meet a thread that really helps illustrate the problem of just repeating bad arguments you heard from that one guy in church that you thought sounded kind of smart; but never really bothered to think it through.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Zoii

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Can I appoint out that
  • the largest genocide ie Noahs flood, was commissioned by God.
  • 1.7 million died in the Holy crusades
  • Truman was christian. He dropped atomic bombs on two civilian populations.
  • Paul Kigame was christian when he slaughtered Tutsis in Rawanda; though he since converted to Islam.
Islam and Hindu states are equally guilty of ethnic cleansing episodes.


My point is that its a flawed argument to suggest mass murders pertain to atheists as a cohort of perpetrators. There's far too many religiously driven perpetrators for that argument to be valid.
 
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Eight Foot Manchild

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What's an "evolutionist"?

Haven't you heard? Scientific theories are worldviews. Evolutionism is totally a thing. Just like gravitationalism, atomicism, germism, etc.
 
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Whyayeman

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What's an "evolutionist"?
In case that was a serious question it must be someone who regards life on earth as having evolved over time as a result of successive adaptations to circumstances such as the environment. This view of the natural world is at odds with religious ideas such as 'Intelligent Design' and over-literal interpretations of the Bible.

I am an example of an 'evolutionist'.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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So you post the ramblings of a bunch of morally inept evil men who claim to be Atheist; as if this is typical of atheist. What's your point?
How about if I post the ramblings of a bunch of morally inept evil men who claim to be Christians, as if it is typical of Christians? Would you consider that fair?
The guys he mentioned actually were responsible for killing people, not merely “rambling.” You seemed to miss that point.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Whatever you say. If you want to believe that, you are free to do so. If you think you should be a "human like your father created you to be"... whatever that is to mean... strive to do that.
e.
Im always surprised that people write the above and think they are saying something worth reading like either they feel they have the authority to grant the other the right to think a certain way or they admit that this freedom exists as though they were magnanimously acknowledging a known state.

All of us can always think whatever we want, which is why will judge us for what we.chose to think which determined what kind of person we became.
 
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Whyayeman

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So murderers can be sentimental. Who cares about Hitler now? He is long gone, dogs and all.

And quite beside the point. The Nazis murdered millions of Jews, Roma, disabled children, just for what they perceived them to be. There was no military strategy, no reason beyond their warped view of humanity - and hardly any resistance from either their fellow countrymen or from their victims.
 
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FireDragon76

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Atheism is not a worldview or political philosophy. "Evolutionism" isn't even a word, outside the imaginary realm of creationist propaganda.

So you're not making any point against atheism when you invoke this tired old tactic. You're making a point against authoritarian, totalitarian and dogmatic thinking. Which I am opposed to no matter how it manifests - in political philosophy or in religion.

Which is all to say nothing of the fact that a bunch of the people you named weren't atheist. Not that it would help your case anyway.

These are some good points. There is an Anglo-American tradition of skepticism and freethinking that is far removed from the attitudes of Marx, Lenin, and Nietzsche.

IMO, Lenin and Trotsky both came from a brutal society that was brutal even when it was predominantly Christian. Violence was the normal way politics was done.

Of course, I am not an atheist but it's important to be clear about the definitions of words and the history of ideas.

Also, there is nothing 'amazing' about Jeffrey Dahmer becoming a Christian. Garbage people become religious converts all the time, often in prison. It's an easy way to feel good about themselves, by imagining they've made right with the creator of the universe, rather than living with the guilt of what they've done.

I think this is where our worldviews do indeed diverge. As a Christian, I believe no one is beyond redemption and every human being has sacred worth, and to quote Sr. Helen Prejean, everyone is worth more than the worst thing they have ever done.

I think it's a good thing Dahmer recognized he was a sinner in need of redemption. I don't see that as a bad thing at all. That doesn't make him a good person per se, but then I don't believe anybody is above the capacity to do terrible crimes.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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So murderers can be sentimental. Who cares about Hitler now? He is long gone, dogs and all.

And quite beside the point. The Nazis murdered millions of Jews, Roma, disabled children, just for what they perceived them to be. There was no military strategy, no reason beyond their warped view of humanity - and hardly any resistance from either their fellow countrymen or from their victims.
So did Pol Pot and the communists and many others. And all resistance was equally killed. That you did not hear of it does not mean it did not happen. Just means you are unaware of those who resisted and failed.
 
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Whyayeman

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Yes, Dorothy. That is yet another genocide, and one that we have all heard of, I should think, as it is a recent event. A point I made earlier is that genocides are not confined to atheist tyrants but can be perpetrated by people espousing religious doctrines too.

Perhaps one aspect of genocides are that they tend to be committed by people who are convinced of their righteousness, killing - as they see it - virtuously.
 
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Freodin

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Im always surprised that people write the above and think they are saying something worth reading like either they feel they have the authority to grant the other the right to think a certain way or they admit that this freedom exists as though they were magnanimously acknowledging a known state.

All of us can always think whatever we want, which is why will judge us for what we.chose to think which determined what kind of person we became.
I'm not at all surprised when someone who thinks there is an authority that can grant us the right to think what we think, or the right to "judge" us - negatively, always, of course - for whatever we think... that such a person would be "surprised" about other humans acknowledging the fact that thoughts are free and our own only.

 
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Dorothy Mae

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Yes, Dorothy. That is yet another genocide, and one that we have all heard of, I should think, as it is a recent event. A point I made earlier is that genocides are not confined to atheist tyrants but can be perpetrated by people espousing religious doctrines too.
Like who? Can you be specific? Did you do so and I missed it? Pol Pot was a communist. The muslims do this I’ve heard so that’s an example i’ll give you.
Perhaps one aspect of genocides are that they tend to be committed by people who are convinced of their righteousness, killing - as they see it - virtuously.
Yes, Jesus said that there would be those who kill true children of God thinking they are offering service to him. So Jesus agrees with you.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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I'm not at all surprised when someone who thinks there is an authority that can grant us the right to think what we think,

You missed the point. Every single person can think what they want. It’s absurd to think a person can grant them those rights. Might as well grant them freedom to breathe.
 
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Freodin

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You missed the point. Every single person can think what they want. It’s absurd to think a person can grant them those rights. Might as well grant them freedom to breathe.
Oh, and here I was, thinking that in your first post, you at least admitted the possibility that "we" would simply acknowledge the fact that thoughts are free.... even if we did so "magnanimously".
But now you have limited it what you really meant, "us" "granting" you the right to think freely.

Well, you are free to think that as well... I herewith personally grant you permission to do so. Everything to make you happy.

But here's the problem: there are people - theists usually - who do not accept that thoughts are free. They assert that you do not have the right to think whatever you do, and that you will be "judged" (always negatively) for it.

And because their highest authority does have a very bad track record in directly communicating his whishes, it is usually other humans - persons - who they think "grant" the right the think the right thoughts and exclude the right to think wrong thoughts.

Yes, it is not always theists who hold this position. But as the atheists are usually limited to judging observable actions - even if these actions are limited to statements - it is the theists who invented and persecuted the idea of "thought crimes".
 
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