Why are children allowed to suffer in this world? Because.........

[Allandavid]

And when you ask.. how do you know it won't all happen again given that things were supposedly made perfect in every way first time around .. the answer

We will have resurrection bodies, not given to sin.. hmmm

Whatever additional claim you want to make, the conclusion remains that, according to most Christians (because not even they can agree amongst themselves), it is possible to exist with free will and in the absence of evil. To say that you can't have both is plainly false...

 

[Blackmarch]

I'll try.
He answers that love can only exist in a world of free will. People cant be forced to love. Otherwise its not love. They must choose. A world of free will is imperfect. because many will choose hatred and evil and cruelty towards each other.
I realise this doesn't answer doesn't cover all children' suffering.

I find this to be a pretty decent answe. Mine would have been that is the price of freedom. I would not say that a world of freewill is imperfect else god has not a free will, but rather the wills within that world have not yet been perfected.

 

[quatona]

It's all in the Bible, my friend.

I don´t know that "freewill" is mentioned in the bible.

 

[Phil 1:21]

I don´t know that "freewill" is mentioned in the bible.

Examples are from cover to cover, my friend.

 

[quatona]

Examples are from cover to cover, my friend.

...but you can´t come up with any?

 

[Phil 1:21]

...but you can´t come up with any?

Turn to Genesis 1 and start reading. You'll have your first example before long. After that I'd encourage you to keep going until you get to the end of Revelation. I could hand you a fish, but I'd rather encourage you to catch your own. God gave us a perfect owner's manual for our lives. It's a pity so few read it.

 

[bhsmte]

Turn to Genesis 1 and start reading. You'll have your first example before long. After that I'd encourage you to keep going until you get to the end of Revelation. I could hand you a fish, but I'd rather encourage you to catch your own. God gave us a perfect owner's manual for our lives. It's a pity so few read it.

And one should take the countless interpretations of scripture as being credible to reality, why exactly?

 

[Phil 1:21]

And one should take the countless interpretations of scripture as being credible to reality, why exactly?

Who do you think created reality? God.

 

[bhsmte]

Who do you think created reality? God.

Any evidence to support this?

 

[Phil 1:21]

Any evidence to support this?

None that would make the blind see.

 

[Halbhh]

I'll try.
He answers that love can only exist in a world of free will. People cant be forced to love. Otherwise its not love. They must choose. A world of free will is imperfect. because many will choose hatred and evil and cruelty towards each other.
I realise this doesn't answer doesn't cover all children' suffering.

Encouraging to see others pointing out these points. About children dying though -- because they are still in the age of innocence (lacking full understanding of their actions, thus not accountable), they are then excused as innocent(!).... Romans 2: v 6 through 16 (it can help to read this in the more clear modern language like in the NIV or ESV or NASB).

In other words, children that die get a free pass into heaven. It's only us adults -- you and I -- who have need of "fear and trembling".... (Phillipians 2 v 12), who actually need to repent and convert and be redeemed.

So the answer is Children that die go to Heaven (for those needing really short sentences that simplify things).

In fact we must become like children or we will go into the second death --

"But Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these."

"And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

!

It's such a good thing for us "mature" people to remember!

 

[Desk trauma]

In other words, children that die get a free pass into heaven. It's only us adults -- you and I -- who have need of "fear and trembling".... (Phillipians 2 v 12), who actually need to repent and convert and be redeemed.

What a horrifying risk parents take by allowing them to live past childhood.

 

[bhsmte]

None that would make the blind see.

Nothing to share then, thanks.

 

[Halbhh]

What a horrifying risk parents take by allowing them to live past childhood.

When you reflect on this some more, you'll have different thinking. Just one obvious point though to remember -- "do not kill" is the most basic commandment for how we act in relation to others.

But, we are all going to die, and...well....honestly, I don't think that 50 years is really that much longer than 5. To me, longer would be 50 million, or 500 million. That's time enough to be 'longer' in my view.

Those relying on the One Who taught "love one another" are going to live again, in a better life.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Nothing to share then, thanks.

You're not looking for answers; you're looking for arguments. If you ever open your eyes, you'll see the proof was there the entire time. God bless.

 

[Rajni]

While you are correct that it has an emotional appeal it also serves a legitimate purpose. Children are the face on innocence. It serves to eliminate or at least reduce the line of argument that those who suffer somehow deserve it.

Yeah, I've never been a fan of the whole karma concept, at least, not the kind where one suffers in a subsequent life for wrongdoings committed in a previous one. And, for children, the whole "you reap what you sow" concept doesn't make sense, because they haven't really gotten around to sowing much yet.

This is why I suspect that suffering isn't the hopeless situation it appears on the surface. The apparent randomness of it suggests something deeper going on, and which has nothing to do with punishment or being deserving of the suffering. The usual narratives, like I said, are inadequate in my mind, and the one that I now generally go on I find to be much more empowering. However, given the love for melodrama that this world has, the narrative I go with is very unpopular. Evidently, we must have our victims and villains (and all the wailing and gnashing of teeth that comes with them) at all costs!! ಢ_ಢ

I really need to pull together my thoughts on this touchy subject so I can convey them right. I've done so in other threads that touched upon this, but I need to put them all in one place.

Hello chaela - Yes and emotions that we all (well, sadly, not all) feel the weight of. But emotions are not usually helpful to clear thinking through to understanding.

Very true; emotions can definitely cloud clear thinking. Whenever someone says, "How would you feel if XYZ happened to you?" Well, I'm sure I'd feel pretty awful, but since I probably won't be thinking all to well either, why must I make my decisions while in that woeful state of mind? After all, how many problems are made worse when reacted to in a fit of passion? And then to pile onto that suffering such commonly-accepted narratives as those suggesting a sadistic God, or deserved punishment, or a fallen world, etc., do nothing to help a person out in those situations either.

One might ask, "Sure, you say that now, but what about when you're actually going through [suffering]?" Well, I would hope to have the same presence of mind in the midst of suffering that I have now, when speculating about it from the comfort of my couch, because it's that calmer, more objective, mindset that will more likely remedy the situation (and myself) in a constructive way, not the distraught mindset conjured up while in the midst of said suffering.

It's not that we can't have emotions; they're awesome, and add to the richness of life. The trick though, I think, is not to let emotions have us.

My belief is that Christians should freely admit they do not have a clear, definitive, cerebral answer for the question and the horror of suffering. This is because God Himself does not give one. Does He answer Job's questions about all Job's pain and grief? No, His answer is to ask Job questions.

I think that if one remains within the perimeters of Christian thought on this subject, one will more likely feel they will never have a satisfactory answer. Perhaps that's why God encouraged Job to ask questions, to lure him away from simply sticking to his religion's talking-points on the subject. Not that the suggestion of pre-birth-planning can't be found in (one's interpretation of) scripture, but it doesn't seem to be a prevalent line of thinking therein.

 

[quatona]

Turn to Genesis 1 and start reading. You'll have your first example before long. After that I'd encourage you to keep going until you get to the end of Revelation. I could hand you a fish, but I'd rather encourage you to catch your own. God gave us a perfect owner's manual for our lives. It's a pity so few read it.

Ok, so you can´t.

 

[High Fidelity]

I think the main point of contention when considering this is why should the entirety of mankind suffer for the actions of someone else.

In modern terms it would be like a North Korean system where criminals are sometimes sentenced to generations of labour/punishment where their family is punished too.

It isn't surprising that this is something that makes people question the existence of God, the power of God, the character of God, or all three.

It's easy to argue it away as original sin, calling ourselves worthless or undeserving, but that presupposes a) a belief in God, b) a belief in the Christian God and c) an agreement and respect for the truth and authority of Scripture. Not everyone falls under those categories and it's virtually impossible to convince them it's justifiable when the only justifying it requires faith in the system that self-contains that notion of justice to begin with.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'll try.
He answers that love can only exist in a world of free will. People cant be forced to love. Otherwise its not love. They must choose. A world of free will is imperfect. because many will choose hatred and evil and cruelty towards each other.
I realise this doesn't answer doesn't cover all children' suffering.

You realize that hatred and cruelty are necessary for love to exist, right?

 

[Freodin]

People cant be forced to love. Otherwise its not love.

So what? It looks like love, it acts like love... and you even get rid of all the nasty sideeffects. So what is better about this "real" love over "forced" love?