Why are children allowed to suffer in this world? Because.........

[Belk]

I'll try.
He answers that love can only exist in a world of free will. People cant be forced to love. Otherwise its not love. They must choose. A world of free will is imperfect. because many will choose hatred and evil and cruelty towards each other.
I realise this doesn't answer doesn't cover all children' suffering.

What evidence does he offer to support this claim?

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

What evidence does he offer to support this claim?

He showed some graphs of statistics based on the last 100 years in first world countries. Apparently 77.3% of those who admit to having free will, say they cant be forced to love. As little as 7.4 % of people in 2nd world countries who admit they prefer to be forced to love, answered they already live in a world of free will.

 

[Nithavela]

He showed some graphs of statistics based on the last 100 years in first world countries. Apparently 77.3% of those who admit to having free will, say they cant be forced to love. As little as 7.4 % of people in 2nd world countries who admit they prefer to be forced to love, answered they already live in a world of free will.

How does one "admit to have free will"?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

How does one "admit to have free will"?

The authorities beat it out of you.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

How does one "admit to have free will"?

I am using my free will to respond to your question but not necessarily answer it in the way you expected. Admittedly, I should've just ignored it altogether.

 

[Nithavela]

I am using my free will to respond to your question but not necessarily answer it in the way you expected. Admittedly, I should've just ignored it altogether.

So you didn't use your free will because you did something that you realise you shouldn't have done?

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

I've just pressed my ignore button for the above poster. Nice use of free will eh!

 

[Nithavela]

For anyone still listening, here's an interesting read about free will:

What Neuroscience Says about Free Will

 

[OldWiseGuy]

For anyone still listening, here's an interesting read about free will:

What Neuroscience Says about Free Will

Psychobabble.

 

[Nithavela]

Psychobabble.

Beef Wellington!

 

[Belk]

He showed some graphs of statistics based on the last 100 years in first world countries. Apparently 77.3% of those who admit to having free will, say they cant be forced to love. As little as 7.4 % of people in 2nd world countries who admit they prefer to be forced to love, answered they already live in a world of free will.

There might be a couple tiny flaws with his methodology then.

 

[CrystalDragon]

I think a God would have to be responsible for both, after all as I understand it satan was god's creation ? satan, if indeed that's who tempted Eve had already fallen and was a lair before he tempted Eve.

To cast satan on earth or even allow him to roam may make sense in limited flat earth/ dome heavens understanding of all that is, but it makes no sense these days. that's of course assuming God didn't want to simply destroy satan to stop all the pain and suffering and deception of mankind.

To say evil is apart from God is to suggest that God is simply not in control.. in my opinion.

Andy

Satan didn't tempt Eve, it was just described as being a serpent.

To compare God to a "head in the sand, wash my hands Pontius Pilate type" is unfair I think. God is responsible for all the good in the world, Satan for the evil. Not all suffering can be explained. There is a bigger picture than this life. A child who dies of cancer, must receive eternal reward in my view. So in the scheme of things, maybe their suffering is short. Hopefully anyway.

The part I bolded is the case in the New Testament, but it's not at all the case in the Old Testament.

In the Old Testament, God was responsible for both good and evil, for peace and calamity. He ordered people to be killed and have women taken as war prisoners, he killed two people for looking into the Ark of the Covenant, he said that everyone in a city should die if one unbeliever was found, etc. Satan only appears in Job, and there not only was he in heaven with God, but just served as a prosecuting attorney and only did what God allowed him to do.

It wasn't until the New Testament that the view changed, and suddenly God was responsible for all good and anything evil was attributed to Satan.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Satan didn't tempt Eve, it was just described as being a serpent.

Study the root word in Hebrew. The literal connection to the term 'serpent' is pretty fragile, although 'snake' is probably the best way to 'personalize' those characteristics.

 

[quatona]

I'll try.
He answers that love can only exist in a world of free will. People cant be forced to love. Otherwise its not love. They must choose. A world of free will is imperfect. because many will choose hatred and evil and cruelty towards each other.
I realise this doesn't answer doesn't cover all children' suffering.

Well, if unrestricted inidiviual human "freewill" is the God´s highest priority (and his reason not to interfere in order to prevent atrocities), I must conclude that we are doing the wrong thing when interfering in case of such attempted atrocities.

 

[ananda]

A measure of suffering exists behind literally every action we take; in fact, it can be said that suffering motivates action.

IMO we are here on this level of reality to learn the lessons regarding suffering, and to (hopefully & eventually) transcend it, in order to advance to the next level of the "game".

 

[keith99]

Why did you stand and watch while a girl was raped?

Because I didn't feel like getting involved, I had nothing to do with it.

Fair enough... you vile piece of crap.

I have not and will not. No Kitty Genovese incident is going to happen on my block.

The price of being an atheist, I can't sit back and wait for God to take care of it.

 

[keith99]

Well, if unrestricted inidiviual human "freewill" is the God´s highest priority (and his reason not to interfere in order to prevent atrocities), I must conclude that we are doing the wrong thing when interfering in case of such attempted atrocities.

What about your free will? Asking you not to interfere seems to violate that.

Free will is rather difficult to make the priority as someones free will is always limited.

 

[quatona]

What about your free will? Asking you not to interfere seems to violate that.

So what about God´s "freewill", then?

 

[keith99]

So what about God´s "freewill", then?

Nah, He is the one entity that we will not allow to have freewill!

 

[afishamongmany]

This guy is a very articulate, knowledgeable Christian who does a good job of answering the atheist question on "why are innocent children allowed to suffer?"
Sorry its a bit long. Wish I'd got onto him ages ago. I'm a fan!

I've listened to the first 20mins. His premise that love can only be known in a context of moral freedom is right. 'Love' would also encompass such things as, goodness, truth, beauty. I would add that all these (including love) can only be known in the context of contrast with their opposites.

The framing of the question is problematical. Why is the suffering of 'innocent children' more of a concern than all the rest of suffering? Suffering is suffering, cruelty is cruelty, inhumanity is ...
Ivan K. almost seem to be saying in his rant that as long as the 'innocent children' weren't suffering he'd be ok with all the other suffering.
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