Why an eternal hell?

[Timothew]

I agree with you on the Word relating to what is said about hell. To me, it is as clear as day that there is a literal hell filled with eternal suffering.

How anyone could look at those verses you provided and not come to the same conclusion is a mystery.

Because the verses don't actually say that there is a hell fiilled with eternal suffering. When I asked "Martyrs44" to show me one verse outside of the Book of Revelation that showed eternal torment, he couldn't do it. He posted a verse that made my point instead, that the lost are destroyed. He even put the word destruction in red and STILL somehow managed to miss what it said. Some people only see what they want to see.

 

[dies-l]

We don't assume anything. We just believe what Jesus and His disciples said. You don't.

Yet you cannot point to a single instance in which Jesus or any of His disciples said anything that supports your viewpoint. Interesting.

 

[Martyrs44]

Yet you cannot point to a single instance in which Jesus or any of His disciples said anything that supports your viewpoint. Interesting.

Are you reading from the RVB? (Reversed Vision Bible).

Jesus said:

Luke 10:15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.

Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Mt 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Mr 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.

If there is nothing to fear because there is no hell, then why did the Lord give the warning...repeatedly?

That's just a sampling. Do you want the rest of it...again?

Your position...is unbelief and the Lord is not pleased with it.

 

[theFijian]

Correction: they began to die that day.

"... for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

I'm not sure why you feel the need to correct the word of God, because it doesnt say...

"... For in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely begin to die."

They did die that day, they became spiritually dead. Just as those in hell continue in their spiritually dead state. The distinction between being physically and spiritually dead is important here.

 

[Martyrs44]

Because the verses don't actually say that there is a hell fiilled with eternal suffering. When I asked "Martyrs44" to show me one verse outside of the Book of Revelation that showed eternal torment, he couldn't do it. He posted a verse that made my point instead, that the lost are destroyed. He even put the word destruction in red and STILL somehow managed to miss what it said. Some people only see what they want to see.

You aren't telling the truth.

Mr 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mr 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mr 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

II Thess. 1:8-9

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Again, I ask: why did Jesus suffer, experience torment, and die for us in the first place? What is it that you think He saved us from......................................................................???

You are really missing the point of the gospel.

 

[Timothew]

Are you reading from the RVB? (Reversed Vision Bible).

Jesus said:

Luke 10:15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.

Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Mt 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Mr 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.

That's just a sampling. Do you want the rest of it...again?

Your position...is unbelief and the Lord is not pleased with it.

I thought you said there was eternal torment. None of these verses say anything about eternal torment. Isn't there any verse spoken by Jesus or His Disciples that supports your belief that the dead are tormented forever in hell? My position is belief in what Jesus actually said. How do you know whether or not the Lord is pleased, anyway? Psalm 147:11 says that the Lord is pleased with those who worship him and trust his love. I worship the Lord. I trust his love. I know that true love doesn't torture anyone. So according to the Bible, The Lord is pleased with me. Do you trust his love? Do you think that he torments people?

 

[Timothew]

You aren't telling the truth.

Mr 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mr 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mr 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

II Thess. 1:8-9

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Again, I ask: why did Jesus suffer, experience torment, and die for us in the first place? What is it that you think He saved us from......................................................................???

You are really missing the point of the gospel.

Go to Isaiah 66 and read the context, which Jesus is quoting. The worms are eating dead bodies, they are not tormenting the living souls of dead people.

Does Luke 16:24 say "eternal torment"? No? Then it doesn't support your belief in eternal torment.

What do I think Jesus saved us from? Isn't it obvious? The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Jesus saved us from death and he gives us eternal life.

I'm sorry, but your belief is not supported by the bible.

 

[Martyrs44]

I'm not sure why you feel the need to correct the word of God, because it doesnt say...

"... For in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely begin to die."

They did die that day, they became spiritually dead. Just as those in hell continue in their spiritually dead state. The distinction between being physically and spiritually dead is important here.

You better stop, Fijian...you've already called God a liar by denying that Adam & Eve died on THE DAY God said they would. There is no equivocation justified here. Since their bodies were still alive then it was a spiritual death (separation from God) that occurred. That began their physical death and it continued until Adam expired at age 933.

Why is it hard for you to grasp that they died spiritually THAT DAY...and began to die physically THAT DAY?

The fact is....ALL of us are dying. We are dying slowly because death is in our members and we will eventually complete the act of dying on the day God has appointed.

We will all die physically some day but our spirit will go to be with the Lord at the appointed time.

The proof of this is that death came into the world by Adam's sin...not by Adams death at 933 yrs.

Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned

 

[Martyrs44]

Go to Isaiah 66 and read the context, which Jesus is quoting. The worms are eating dead bodies, they are not tormenting the living souls of dead people.

Does Luke 16:24 say "eternal torment"? No? Then it doesn't support your belief in eternal torment.

What do I think Jesus saved us from? Isn't it obvious? The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Jesus saved us from death and he gives us eternal life.

I'm sorry, but your belief is not supported by the bible.

You are denying scripture.

Excuse me while I brush the dust off and move on to the next village.

 

[theFijian]

They died because they ate of it. We will face death because they ate of it.

Spiritually we are already dead because they ate of it.

 

[Timothew]

You are denying scripture.

Excuse me while I brush the dust off and move on to the next village.

Okay, see you later.

By the way, what scripture did I deny? Are you saying that Isaiah 66 doesn't say that worms are eating corpses? If you would read it, you would see that it does. Are you saying that Luke shows eternal torment in Chapter 16? He doesn't.

I'm not denying scripture. You are misreading scripture and getting mifted that I'm not falling for your line. Maybe the next village will believe you. Good Luck with that.

 

[dies-l]

Are you reading from the RVB? (Reversed Vision Bible).

Jesus said:

Luke 10:15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.

Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Mt 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Mr 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.

If there is nothing to fear because there is no hell, then why did the Lord give the warning...repeatedly?

That's just a sampling. Do you want the rest of it...again?

I would like something that says that the the damned suffer eternal torment in hell. You haven't provided it yet.

Let's make sure that you are arguing the right point here. I have never said, nor do I believe, that there is no Hell. I have said that the price of sin is death, not eternal torment in Hell. Hell is a place of destruction (which I am sure is not pleasant) not a place of eternal torment. Nothing you have cited undermines that position

Your position...is unbelief and the Lord is not pleased with it.

Now, you speak for the Lord?!?!? Sheesh.

My position is believing the Bible, rather than the collected traditions of the Church, and I am open to correction and rebuke from the Lord or from Scripture itself.

 

[dies-l]

Spiritually we are already dead because they ate of it.

Reference?

 

[dies-l]

Okay, see you later.

By the way, what scripture did I deny? Are you saying that Isaiah 66 doesn't say that worms are eating corpses? If you would read it, you would see that it does. Are you saying that Luke shows eternal torment in Chapter 16? He doesn't.

I'm not denying scripture. You are misreading scripture and getting mifted that I'm not falling for your line. Maybe the next village will believe you. Good Luck with that.

People have the hardest time letting go of what their traditions have told them so that they can learn what Scripture is teaching them.

 

[Timothew]

Does the bible ever use the term "spiritual death"?
I don't know if I have ever seen this phrase in the bible. I hear it quoted a lot. I've never seen it. I could be wrong, can someone show me "spiritual death" written in the bible?

 

[Timothew]

"spiritual death"
occurs in 0 verses in the KJV (see Primary Results).
Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV

 

[Timothew]

"spiritual death"
occurs 2 times in 2 verses in the NLT
Page 1 / 1 exact matches (Rom 7:10 - 2Cr 7:10)

Rom 7:10and I died. So I discovered that the law's commands, which were supposed to bring life, brought spiritual death instead.

2Cr 7:10For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience leads us away from sin and results in salvation. There's no regret for that kind of sorrow. But worldly sorrow, which lacks repentance, results in spiritual death.

Romans 7:10
καὶ εὑρέθη μοι ἡ ἐντολὴ ἡ εἰς ζωήν, αὕτη εἰς θάνατον·
I almost had it, but "spiritual death" is not in the greek, just the garden variety thanaton, death.

2 Cor 7:10
ἡ γὰρ κατὰ θεὸν λύπη μετάνοιαν εἰς σωτηρίαν ἀμεταμέλητον ἐργάζεται· ἡ δὲ τοῦ κόσμοῦ λύπη θάνατον κατεργάζεται.
Also no "spiritual death", just plain old death death. Thanaton.

(spiritual is πνευματικό&#962

 

[DCJazz]

Legalism, oi. The worst kind of religion.

 

[Timothew]

This blue letter bible search function is uber-cool.
Here is the result for "eternal torment":
"eternal torment"
occurs in 0 verses in the KJV (see Primary Results).

I went through a bunch of other translations as well, never finding a hit for "eternal torment". For such a popular doctrine, you would think the phrase would show up at least once in the bible.

Here are the total results for "eternal hell"
"eternal hell"
occurs in 0 verses in the KJV (see Primary Results).

 

[GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta]

People have the hardest time letting go of what their traditions have told them so that they can learn what Scripture is teaching them.

What is it that you disagree with? The fire part of hell, or the eternal part of hell?

These verses deal with the fire part.

Matthew 13:37-42

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

37 And He said, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, 38 and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one; 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the [a]end of the age; and the reapers are angels. 40 So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the [b]end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom [c]all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 13:49-50

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

49 So it will be at the [a]end of the age; the angels will come forth and [b]take out the wicked from among the righteous, 50 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


As for the eternal part:

"And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire," (Matt. 18:8).1

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46).

It's very clear. Hell contains fire. It is a place of eternal punishment.