createdtoworship
In the grip of grace
- Mar 13, 2004
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do you think the life of a God is equal with the life of a human? Or a billion?
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That doesn't answer anything. If the wages of our sin are eternal hell, then Christ payment for that sin would have to be eternal hell. If the wages for our sin is death, I can see that Christ paid that debt.
Do you think God sees you as "measly"?
But it is translated 'evil' in the KJV, ASV, Darby, and others. It's the same word used in these places:
Isaiah 5:20 "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter."
Genesis 38:7 "But Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the LORD's sight; so the LORD put him to death."
Deut 23:9 When you are encamped against your enemies, then you shall keep yourself from every evil thing."
And many others.
It's the same word in Hebrew.
They weren't, but we shouldn't feel sorry for any of them, because they deserve infinitely more suffering than a mere few years in a concentration camp.
Yes indeed.There should be a pretty strong contrast in their actions, right?
God is worse than Hitler?What Hitler did is nothing compared to what God will do (is doing) to people.
This has already been explained. God is omniscient, humans are not. God knows exactly what individuals deserve. Humans do not know. Sinful humans cannot judge others fairly.On what grounds is torture right if God does it for eternity, but wrong if a human does it for a few years?
Well yeah. The Bible is all about what God has told us. He is just and righteous. Humans are sinful.So we have absolutely no way of knowing whether God is just or not. Except that He said so. Which is probably what He would say whether He was just or not. Right?
Well said!When the unredeemed bow confessing Christ is Lord it will not be from faith, that with which the redeemed are saved, it will rather be from seeing the truth clearly seen and having that be an overwhelming response in which they cannot do otherwise, God is so glorious. Having been without that faith and not being redeemed, doing that will not save them, and they will still face judgment.
I don't exactly see it spelled out, especially not in the OT. It's really strange to have the fate of most of creation simply kept a secret until some very few verses in the NT having to be interpreted in a certain way together to conclude, finally, that the everlasting fate for most of His creation is for Him to torment them forever.There is this spelled out God is not willing that any should perish but that all would come to everlasting life.
If that grace comes by hearing the gospel and then make a decision regarding it, there are so many who never get to hear it, even in the first world.It is only through coming to faith with the salvation that is in Christ who is the only way. Yahweh our God is gracious giving chances to all
But again, if the punishment for sin was eternal suffering, then Jesus did not in fact pay that price. The (our) punishment was laid on Him, as the bible says. Not that a completely different punishment was laid on Him. But yes, there is indeed a difference between Him and us - He has eternal life, therefore He could come back from death.Christ bore judgment for sin, as God, he could do that all that one time
Apparently life and death does mean different things in the bible, which in any case when we read it in english, doesn't convey the full and true meaning of things. Remember that the bible itself is written in more than one language. But that doesn't mean it's necessarily complicated. Eternal life, for example, probably does mean eternal life. And like I mentioned before, God denied people eternal life after they were cast out of Eden.All definitions used are with all the Bible being consistent, so there is not problems of thinking parts say conflicting things.
Everybody who says God will torment anybody forever is in effect saying He will judge unrighteously.This is a straw man argument, I do not know that any of us are saying something contrary to this.
What is your take on Rev 14:10?That is the problem seeing contrary things said with not having the right understanding with definition. Destruction along with perishing is a corruption from what any are intended to be from God's creation, it is everlasting, cut off from the presence of God where the redeemed are forever in bliss, there will be torment with no rest day or night.
The point is: did they deserve it or not? If it was God who imprisoned, tortured and gassed them to death, they would've deserved it, right? So when we say Hitler was immoral, it wasn't because he murdered more than six million people, it's because he tried to do God's job.well if they were not murdered for sins against God and by God, than what is the point of this conversation?
We say Hitler was evil because of what he did to people who didn't deserve it. Then on the other hand we maintain that they deserve infinitely worse. What you say God will do to people is infinitely worse than what Hitler could even dream of doing.God is worse than Hitler?
Mass murder isn't wrong??? I say it is.So then we can't say that what Hitler did was wrong.
Mass murder isn't wrong??? I say it is.
Do you feel sorry for them?
The point is: did they deserve it or not? If it was God who imprisoned, tortured and gassed them to death, they would've deserved it, right? So when we say Hitler was immoral, it wasn't because he murdered more than six million people, it's because he tried to do God's job.
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