Whose the real killer?

[puttytat190]

My eacher told us this story.One day he sort of had a gahtering of freinds at his apartment complex.He checked out the movie hook to watch while the guests were there.Two of the guests starting crying when the nver never children came on screen ,because they had grown up foster children,and sympthize with the characters.These were grown men,and wemon,at a party for the evening that had never met each other before.So ,yes the system can cause drama many years after they are out of the system.I am just trying to show you the down side .Not saying abortion is right.

 

[MadeYouLook]

So are you saying a person can be so hurt and damaged that they are beyond the healing the love of God can bring you. The point of my post was to state that as Christians we should reject the reasoning that the amount of suffering the child will go though is a valid reason to abort a child. I think our time would be better spent advocating the power of God's love and how much healing power he has if we let him. Just because these kids will be in horrible foster care cnditions doesnt mean they are outside the reach of God.

oh no, obviously there is still hope for these kids. all things are possible with God.

and that isn't enough of a reason to abort a child, i'm just saying it's incredibly tough and possibly scarring to have to go through something like that.

if anything there needs to be less talk about the wrong of abortion and more talk about how we could possibly fix/improve the adoption system.

my main reason for believing abortion should be legal in some cases is stated in my last post.

 

[GasTank]

if without an abortion the baby and mother die, but with an abortion only the baby dies, would that not be ok? was what i was getting at.

Here is a cenerio. Lets say you had your baby sibling in your arms. (I don't know if you have a sibling or not, just picture it) Now lets say a killer came up to you and told you to kill the baby, or else he'll kill you both. Would you kill the baby?

and i don't think you ever answered if America is the only country that has legalized abortion, if not then why are you singling out the US?(other then the obvious fact that you live there)

I only did america, do to the fatc that I did it.

and some scripture from the people who oppose abortion all-together would be nice.

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/apologetics/abort2.html

"You knit me in my mother's womb . . . nor was my frame unknown to you when I was made in secret" (Psalm 139:13,15).

You have been my guide since I was first formed . . . from my mother's womb you are my God" (Psalm 22:11-12).

 

[MadeYouLook]

Here is a cenerio. Lets say you had your baby sibling in your arms. (I don't know if you have a sibling or not, just picture it) Now lets say a killer came up to you and told you to kill the baby, or else he'll kill you both. Would you kill the baby?

ok...that's a little different. considering it's my sibling and it's apparently already born, then no. i can't give birth to another sibling(or anything for that matter ) and besides aren't we debating whether babies not yet born are alive or not?

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/apologetics/abort2.html

"You knit me in my mother's womb . . . nor was my frame unknown to you when I was made in secret" (Psalm 139:13,15).

You have been my guide since I was first formed . . . from my mother's womb you are my God" (Psalm 22:11-12).

i don't have the time to read everything on the link you posted but i can say this about the versed above. the first one just says that God knows babies when they are in the womb, of course he knows them, he knows everything. he knows every blade of grass on earth too, doesn't make it a human life. and the second one says that in the womb you are my God. He's God of all including things not alive, again doesn't say before birth it's a human life.

 

[Dalecana]

You got the same car seat/carrier thing-e for your kid as i Got micah{my kid who's name should have been Edrion jr.}

{Good for me}

Oh yah to the point, Shame on america .

there is absolutly no excuse for abortion whatsoever.

 

[SuperOktav]

You guys are arguing like rape is a big reason for abortion. I believe a mere 1% of abortions are from rape.

At current rates, an estimated 43 percent of American women will have at least one abortion by the age of 45.

• Two-thirds of all abortions are among never-married women.
• Fifty-two percent of U.S. women having abortions are younger than 25 years old.
• About 13,000 abortions each year are attributed to rape and incest—representing 1 percent of all abortions.

 

[MadeYouLook]

You guys are arguing like rape is a big reason for abortion. I believe a mere 1% of abortions are from rape.

At current rates, an estimated 43 percent of American women will have at least one abortion by the age of 45.

• Two-thirds of all abortions are among never-married women.
• Fifty-two percent of U.S. women having abortions are younger than 25 years old.
• About 13,000 abortions each year are attributed to rape and incest—representing 1 percent of all abortions.

these are the reasons abortions should be strictly controlled, in my opinion

most aren't even close to neccessary and are just wrong, but that doesn't mean we rule it out all together

and personally i had no idea how big of an issue rape was for abortion

 

[GasTank]

the first one just says that God knows babies when they are in the womb, of course he knows them, he knows everything. he knows every blade of grass on earth too, doesn't make it a human life. and the second one says that in the womb you are my God. He's God of all including things not alive, again doesn't say before birth it's a human life.

I'm not trying to pick at your words, but you did say God knows the babies when their in the womb.

I have not looked into this, but I wonder if there is a different meaning to the word know when it comes to God knowing how many blades of grass there are or knowing a baby.

I'll check it out right now.

 

[Paladin Dave]

Well, Hitler did kill a bunch of Priests, POW's, political enemies, etc along with the 6 million Jews, so the statistic is a bit higher, but yeah, I see what you mean. And people think we live in such a wonderful and upright country... I'm not for abortion, but I feel like it shouldn't be ruled out altogether; although, I would only really support it in the situation where it would kill or severely damage the mother's health, and thus prevent her from having any children ever again... since she'd be dead or close to dead, and all...

 

[revolutiongames2004]

if without an abortion the baby and mother die, but with an abortion only the baby dies, would that not be ok? was what i was getting at.

who has more power over life, a doctor or god, who has had more time to live, the baby or the mother? who should get a chance? god should decide who lives and who dies.

by killing the baby you are implying that that Human is an Animal, is that what you are saying? an animal has no choice on whether it lives or dies, thats a humans choice, so are you saying that this soon to be born baby is an animal i think you are mistaken.

 

[Atlantians]

To be fair, all those who are pro-choice that I know don't belive that life begins until birth. So from that viewpoint your analogy is pointless.

To be fair, all those who were Nazis didn't consider non-Arians(especially Jews) to truly be human, or at least, not as advanced and not worthy of life.
So from that viewpoint your counter point is pointless.

this is an issue that isn't quite as black and white as Gastank seems to believe.
first, what about rape? secondly, what if the situation is without an abortion the mother and baby die, as opposed to just the baby? thirdly, when does life truly begin?

Rape is a tragedy. The child does not deserve the punishment of the father.
And rarely are there incidents where a mother and a child both are being threatened by the pregnancy.
If it is immossible to save bothg, the most likely to survive should live, unless otherwise decided.
But these incodents are rare, and the exception, not the rule.

two questions, where did you get your information?(not saying it's wrong, just curious) and is America the only country with legalized abortion?

The information is very common and has never been disputed.
And for the second point: No.

for the record, i consider myself a republican Christian and believe in most cases abortion is wrong. my opinion is it should be legal but there should be rules on when it should be allowed. sort of, controlled pro-choice.

Pointless.
Roe V. Wade was decided on the idea that Roe was raped. Which was a lie.

You can't have it legal.
It should be an emergency practice only done if saving the mother and child is very unlikely.

Logically the most likely to survive should live.

However morally: I think the one who has had the least opportunity to live should survive.
The mother has already had a life, the child has not had the opportunity.

Realisticall: The instances of a pregnancy causing death are so few that this is really a moot point.
Most can be averted through c-section.

C-sections genearlly remove the possibility of losing both, or either.
Very very rare instances exist where it is immpossible to save both. And the birth would cause the death of one.
The thing is, these instances are so very rare. And the childs life should not be ignored.

Many woman have actually chosen to let themselves die in child birth so their child could live. That is amazing act of self sacrifice.

 

[CT820]

Note: I am NOT advocating abortion. I hate it as much as the next person; however, I believe it is up to the woman to make the choice, NOT the government.

Few points:

1) The use of the word "baby" is disingenuous. A baby, by definition, is a human being after birth. Even if you believe life begins at conception, using the term "baby" is just for emotional appeal, and is disingenuous.

2) 87% of all abortions are done in the first 12 weeks. In other words, most were done when the foetuses were just a few cells. I, personally, do not consider that life.

3) Banning abortion is foolhearty and will not lower the number of unwanted pregnancies. Women will not stop getting abortions just because it is illegal. They will find a way, and that is just going to cause more problems with back-alley abortions. We have to move forward, not backward.

4) If you do not want an abortion, don't get one. Let the women make the choice. We should not be passing laws for or against something we cannot possibly understand, and this is coming from a guy.

5) To force a women to carry a foetus to term from a rape or incest is absolutely sickening to me. People that actually believe that would probably be happier living in the Middle East.

6) Pro-Lifers really don't care about what happens to the foetus after it is born. They could care less what happens to the baby. Otherwise they would be complaining and advocating fixing the overloaded and underfunded foster homes, adoption, and orphanages. Do they? No. Are they out there adopting these children that they want to force to term? No. Now THAT is sickening.

7) Almost all pro-choicers don't like abortion, but we view it as a necessary evil in todays world.

Note: I am NOT advocating abortion. I hate it as much as the next person; however, I believe it is up to the woman to make the choice, NOT the government.

 

[Paladin Dave]

who has more power over life, a doctor or god, who has had more time to live, the baby or the mother? who should get a chance? god should decide who lives and who dies.

by killing the baby you are implying that that Human is an Animal, is that what you are saying? an animal has no choice on whether it lives or dies, thats a humans choice, so are you saying that this soon to be born baby is an animal i think you are mistaken.

Can God not use a doctor to enforce his will? Not saying it would be the case; just hypothetical.

 

[Username:]

If spread out evenly; 1.4 babies a second....

 

[RealityCheck]

who has more power over life, a doctor or god, who has had more time to live, the baby or the mother? who should get a chance? god should decide who lives and who dies.

by killing the baby you are implying that that Human is an Animal, is that what you are saying? an animal has no choice on whether it lives or dies, thats a humans choice, so are you saying that this soon to be born baby is an animal i think you are mistaken.

Humans are animals.

An animal has no choice whether it lives or dies, that's a human's choice....

Wait, are you saying an animal will not die until a human actually kills it?

So animals are otherwise immortal until a human chooses to kill them? Wow.

 

[Caylin]

who has more power over life, a doctor or god, who has had more time to live, the baby or the mother? who should get a chance? god should decide who lives and who dies.

by killing the baby you are implying that that Human is an Animal, is that what you are saying? an animal has no choice on whether it lives or dies, thats a humans choice, so are you saying that this soon to be born baby is an animal i think you are mistaken.

So basically in a tubal pregnancy you would let both the baby and the mother die? Sickening.

 

[Username:]

A re-open?!

 

[Nienor]

A re-open?!

It was moved...

 

[MadeYouLook]

as i stated before(i'll say it again after the move) i believe that abortion is wrong most of the time, but it wouldn't be smart to make it illegal all of the time

and revolutiongames, i never implied that unborn babies were animals, that's putting words in my mouth, i believe now that they are alive and human life. but still, eliminating abortion all together would not be good for some rare situations

 

[ElvisFan42]

The only people for abortion...................are already alive!

Hmm, for those who are against abortion, how do you not have 20 children by the time you are 40? Obviously you are much younger, but what do you plan to do? What about others? Do you have that many children?