Who will not be in the kingdom of God?

[Romansthruphilemon]

 

[Romansthruphilemon]

The video posted above will start at the one minute point. There is nothing but silence for the first minute.

 

[Romansthruphilemon]

Jesus said in Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate:

He also said in Ma 19:17 but if thou wilt to enter into life keep the commandments. And his standard is to keep them in thought as well as in deed. If you even lust after a woman you have committed adultery in your heart. Jesus doesn't say try as hard as you can to do these things, no he said Ma 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Have you offended in even one point? Even in thought? You're guilty of all.

Aren't you glad we are living in the Ephesians 3:2 dispensation of the grace of God? Because if that was our doctrine to get into heaven we both know where we would be going.

The Bible has to be rightly divided 2 Timothy 2:15. Jesus earthly ministry is to the house of Israel. You and I are not in the house of Israel. Even Paul's epistles have to be rightly divided between salvation verses and service verses (your reasonable service after you are saved).

Consider what Jesus said in Ma 6:14,15 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you: (15) but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Forgiveness (for a Jew living during the time of Jesus earthly ministry) is dependent on them forgiving other men first.

But now consider what the risen Lord says to us through the Apostle Paul (Your Apostle, Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, in as much as I am the Apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify mine office) Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tender hearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. That's past tense, hath forgiven you, even before you have forgiven another. That is totally different than Ma 6:14,15!!!! If you don't rightly divide as you're instructed to do in 2 Tim 2:15 you are going to be following someone else's doctrine and not the doctrine that is for you.

For more on rightly dividing please see truthtimeradio.com click on ttr publications and read compare the verses.

Thanks

 

[SkyWriting]

Do you know what Paul actually said? He said those who practice (continue in) the things listed, will not inherit the kingdom of God. He did not differentiate between saved and not saved. This is your assumption.

Yes. Paul made mistakes in his choice of words.

 

[SkyWriting]

The video posted above will start at the one minute point. There is nothing but silence for the first minute.

 

[EmSw]

Jesus said in Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate:

He also said in Ma 19:17 but if thou wilt to enter into life keep the commandments. And his standard is to keep them in thought as well as in deed. If you even lust after a woman you have committed adultery in your heart. Jesus doesn't say try as hard as you can to do these things, no he said Ma 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Have you offended in even one point? Even in thought? You're guilty of all.

Aren't you glad we are living in the Ephesians 3:2 dispensation of the grace of God? Because if that was our doctrine to get into heaven we both know where we would be going.

The Bible has to be rightly divided 2 Timothy 2:15. Jesus earthly ministry is to the house of Israel. You and I are not in the house of Israel. Even Paul's epistles have to be rightly divided between salvation verses and service verses (your reasonable service after you are saved).

Consider what Jesus said in Ma 6:14,15 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you: (15) but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Forgiveness (for a Jew living during the time of Jesus earthly ministry) is dependent on them forgiving other men first.

But now consider what the risen Lord says to us through the Apostle Paul (Your Apostle, Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, in as much as I am the Apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify mine office) Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tender hearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. That's past tense, hath forgiven you, even before you have forgiven another. That is totally different than Ma 6:14,15!!!! If you don't rightly divide as you're instructed to do in 2 Tim 2:15 you are going to be following someone else's doctrine and not the doctrine that is for you.

For more on rightly dividing please see truthtimeradio.com click on ttr publications and read compare the verses.

Thanks

So, why did God change His mind? Who changed God's mind?

Were you not grafted into THE olive tree (Israel)? When does the wild olive branch, grafted into THE olive tree, get to change the ways of THE olive tree?

So I take you do not believe the truths Jesus told us are for the church. No worry, you have plenty of others who stand right beside you.

 

[masmpg]

Perhaps you missed the word 'practiced', that is, habitual, continual, and being a servant to the works of the flesh. One can choose to be a 'chief of sinners', or choose to be a saint. What is your choice?

Even a saint will always admit to being the "chief of sinners". Anything else is boasting and that is why our works are nothing in the sight of God, unless all glory for them is given to God. We can take no credit for our works. This does not mean our works are useless right?

 

[masmpg]

I really don't think Jesus was referring to food. Food does not enter the heart. But He certainly was referring to action. Jesus and the whole bible is about action, doing things. The apathetic ascent to some profession is meaningless without action.

 

[EmSw]

Even a saint will always admit to being the "chief of sinners". Anything else is boasting and that is why our works are nothing in the sight of God, unless all glory for them is given to God. We can take no credit for our works. This does not mean our works are useless right?

The actual chief of sinners is also called the father of lies. 'Chief' means first in time and place, first in rank, first in honor, and first in influence. A saint is not first in influence concerning sin. A saint does not rank first in honor concerning sin.

Now if Paul had said 'was' chief of sinners, it would be a different story. A chief of sinners is also a servant of sin. A saint is one who is most holy, sacred, pure, morally blameless, and sanctified, not a chief of sinners.

If one says they are chief of sinners, they are boasting in their evil works, a false humility if you will.

I don't think any true believer take credit for their good works. We should do good works, because we are told to do so.

 

[Romansthruphilemon]

 

[AJTruth]

MESSIAH CAME TO FULFIL THE LAW:
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
(ANYONE CLAIMING THE LAW IS STILL IN EFFECT. IS CLAIMING MESSIAH FAILED AT HIS MISSION!)

The Law demands, righteousness, through works.

Grace, supplies righteousness, through faith.

1 Jn 3:4 Sin is a transgression of the Law:
Ok, we've all have broken God's law. No one can say he is not a sinner until some means is provided (not to take away the law) but to remove the sin, which is the transgression of the law. Jesus sacrifice/payment takes/removes our sin. Once our sins have been removed, there is no transgression of the law

The Law neither can nor will it ever forgive yours sins.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
(LAW KEEPING CAN'T/WON'T SAVE ANYONE)

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
(JUSTIFIED = DECLARED RIGHTEOUS BY A SOVEREIGN GOD. WE ARE DECLARED RIGHTEOUS BY GOD THRU FAITH, NOT LAW KEEPING)

Grace, Righteousness, & Salvation are ALL Gifts from GOD received by Faith not Works.

Ephesians 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(IT'S GOD'S GIFT OF GRACE = UNDESERVED/UNEARNED FAVOR. AND THRU OUR FAITH IN CHRIST'S SIN ATONING SACRIFICIAL REDEMPTIVE PAYMENT OF JESUS THE CHRIST)

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(NO SELF EFFORT IS ENVOLVED. SO, WE CAN'T BOAST ABOUT HOW GREAT WE ARE)

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
(""WHEN ALL OUR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS"" HAS BEED CLEANSED. WHAT'S LEFT? """ONLY RIGHTEOUSNESS"""!)

Just as the Law of Lift, supersedes the Law of Gravity.

The Law of Faith (Rom 3:27), supersedes the Law of Works

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Romans 1:5 """Through him we received grace""" & apostleship """to call all the Gentiles to the obedience""" """that comes from faith""" for his name’s sake.
(Faith leads to obedience)

Romans 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, """""so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience""""" """""that comes from faith"""""
(Gentiles are brought to obedience by Faith)

When Faith is your root. Good works & obedience will be your fruit. Maranatha

Galatians 2:16 man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
(LAW KEEPING CAN NOT SAVE YOU. ONLY THRU THE FAITH OF JESUS AND OUR FAITH IN JESUS, ARE WE JUSTIFIED "Declared Righteous")

Romans 1:17 The righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith
ONLY THRU THE FAITH OF JESUS AND OUR RAITH IN JESUS, ARE WE JUSTIFIED "Declared Righteous")

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
(TRYING TO ESTABLISH THEIR OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, THRU LAW KEEPING)

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
(IF YOU'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE SALVATION BY YOUR OWN GOOD WORKS OR IN LAW KEEPING. YOU HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE!) Maranatha

 

[masmpg]

MESSIAH CAME TO FULFIL THE LAW:
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
(ANYONE CLAIMING THE LAW IS STILL IN EFFECT. IS CLAIMING MESSIAH FAILED AT HIS MISSION!)

I grow weary of having to reply to this type of "do nothing" Christianity comments. Just because Jesus fulfilled the law does not mean he did away with it!

The Law demands, righteousness, through works.

The law does not "demand righteousness through works"!
The law does one thing. It shows us what sin is. PERIOD! THE LAW HAS NEVER SAVED ANYBODY, AND NEVER WILL!

Grace, supplies righteousness, through faith.

Your suppositions show how little you know and how much you follow your pastor instead of the bible. Here is what Paul says grace is for in Romans:1:5: "By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:" Grace was given to us FOR OBEDIENCE!

1 Jn 3:4 Sin is a transgression of the Law:
Ok, we've all have broken God's law. No one can say he is not a sinner until some means is provided (not to take away the law) but to remove the sin, which is the transgression of the law. Jesus sacrifice/payment takes/removes our sin. Once our sins have been removed, there is no transgression of the law

So you are saying that you can never stop sinning? How often do your sins have to be "removed"? Everyone who has ever died in Christ has been saved by grace. To even consider that all who died before Christ have been saved by works shows a great lack of biblical insight.

The Law neither can nor will it ever forgive yours sins.

EXACTLY! The law ONLY points out sin. We are saved by grace which gives us the power to obey so we do not boast!

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
(LAW KEEPING CAN'T/WON'T SAVE ANYONE)
Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
(JUSTIFIED = DECLARED RIGHTEOUS BY A SOVEREIGN GOD. WE ARE DECLARED RIGHTEOUS BY GOD THRU FAITH, NOT LAW KEEPING)

So what you are saying is all you have to do is say a few words and you are "saved" forever? Without ever having to confess your sins after you commit them? Or do you attend confession and tell them to a man?

Grace, Righteousness, & Salvation are ALL Gifts from GOD received by Faith not Works.
Ephesians 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(IT'S GOD'S GIFT OF GRACE = UNDESERVED/UNEARNED FAVOR. AND THRU OUR FAITH IN CHRIST'S SIN ATONING SACRIFICIAL REDEMPTIVE PAYMENT OF JESUS THE CHRIST)
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(NO SELF EFFORT IS ENVOLVED. SO, WE CAN'T BOAST ABOUT HOW GREAT WE ARE)

You do what every nominal Christian does by leaving out the whole context of this most important issue, verse 10 which states: "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." Just because Paul wrote the way he did to the heathens and pagans who were steeped in works, where they had to do all sorts of rituals to appease their god, does not excuse our duty to do what the bible tells us to do. The whole bible is full of action. People like you throw out all the things we must do or not do just to deceive people into believing that Christianity is apathetic, and we do not have to do anything. Read the books of Timothy, Titus, James, Peter, Jude, John, all these balance out what you assume Paul to meant when he says "not of works LEST ANY MAN BOAST!" You come to the conclusion that just because Paul says not of works that we do not have to do anything. The last part of that sentence is the context of the whole idea, LEST ANY MAN BOAST! We are commanded to work, but not to take any credit for it.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
(""WHEN ALL OUR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS"" HAS BEED CLEANSED. WHAT'S LEFT? """ONLY RIGHTEOUSNESS"""!)

So all we have to do is confess one time and we are "saved" forever? You must confess your sins immediately after sinning, because the righteousness of Christ will NOT cover one unconfessed sin!

Romans 1:5 """Through him we received grace""" & apostleship """to call all the Gentiles to the obedience""" """that comes from faith""" for his name’s sake.
(Faith leads to obedience)

Now this is quite the stretch. Adding to the word of God is a very serious offense. Faith does not lead to obedience in the way you suggest. Grace gives us power to obey. The cross is the power of God and the cross is His full display of grace. Salvation is so simple, it takes a lot of twisting to teach that works are not necessary for salvation.

Romans 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, """""so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience""""" """""that comes from faith"""""
(Gentiles are brought to obedience by Faith)

Whatever that means???

When Faith is your root. Good works & obedience will be your fruit. Maranatha

So you just write all this out and argue just for the fun of it? What exactly is faith? Is it a do nothing ascent to a traditional doctrine?

Galatians 2:16 man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
(LAW KEEPING CAN NOT SAVE YOU. ONLY THRU THE FAITH OF JESUS AND OUR FAITH IN JESUS, ARE WE JUSTIFIED "Declared Righteous")

I never said we are saved by keeping the law, but we certainly can be lost be not keeping it! Did you even read what I wrote? Nothing about salvation by works, just truth from the bible without all the add-ons like you are doing.

Romans:2:13: "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."

 

[AJTruth]

I grow weary of having to reply to this type of "do nothing" Christianity comments. Just because Jesus fulfilled the law does not mean he did away with it!



The law does not "demand righteousness through works"!
The law does one thing. It shows us what sin is. PERIOD! THE LAW HAS NEVER SAVED ANYBODY, AND NEVER WILL!



Your suppositions show how little you know and how much you follow your pastor instead of the bible. Here is what Paul says grace is for in Romans:1:5: "By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:" Grace was given to us FOR OBEDIENCE!



So you are saying that you can never stop sinning? How often do your sins have to be "removed"? Everyone who has ever died in Christ has been saved by grace. To even consider that all who died before Christ have been saved by works shows a great lack of biblical insight.



EXACTLY! The law ONLY points out sin. We are saved by grace which gives us the power to obey so we do not boast!



So what you are saying is all you have to do is say a few words and you are "saved" forever? Without ever having to confess your sins after you commit them? Or do you attend confession and tell them to a man?



You do what every nominal Christian does by leaving out the whole context of this most important issue, verse 10 which states: "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." Just because Paul wrote the way he did to the heathens and pagans who were steeped in works, where they had to do all sorts of rituals to appease their god, does not excuse our duty to do what the bible tells us to do. The whole bible is full of action. People like you throw out all the things we must do or not do just to deceive people into believing that Christianity is apathetic, and we do not have to do anything. Read the books of Timothy, Titus, James, Peter, Jude, John, all these balance out what you assume Paul to meant when he says "not of works LEST ANY MAN BOAST!" You come to the conclusion that just because Paul says not of works that we do not have to do anything. The last part of that sentence is the context of the whole idea, LEST ANY MAN BOAST! We are commanded to work, but not to take any credit for it.



So all we have to do is confess one time and we are "saved" forever? You must confess your sins immediately after sinning, because the righteousness of Christ will NOT cover one unconfessed sin!



Now this is quite the stretch. Adding to the word of God is a very serious offense. Faith does not lead to obedience in the way you suggest. Grace gives us power to obey. The cross is the power of God and the cross is His full display of grace. Salvation is so simple, it takes a lot of twisting to teach that works are not necessary for salvation.



Whatever that means???



So you just write all this out and argue just for the fun of it? What exactly is faith? Is it a do nothing ascent to a traditional doctrine?



I never said we are saved by keeping the law, but we certainly can be lost be not keeping it! Did you even read what I wrote? Nothing about salvation by works, just truth from the bible without all the add-ons like you are doing.

Romans:2:13: "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."

MESSIAH CAME TO FULFIL THE LAW:
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
(ANYONE CLAIMING THE LAW IS STILL IN EFFECT. IS CLAIMING MESSIAH FAILED AT HIS MISSION!)
I grow weary of having to reply to this type of "do nothing" Christianity comments. Just because Jesus fulfilled the law does not mean he did away with it!


My reply:
I find it sad when people. Rob Jesus of His due Honor. By claiming what He SUFFERED ON THE CROSS just isn't good enough.

And that somehow its them who deserve the Glory. Cause their just so Great.

Grace, Righteousness, & Salvation are ALL Gifts from GOD received by Faith not Works.


The Law demands, righteousness, through works.
The law does not "demand righteousness through works"!
The law does one thing. It shows us what sin is. PERIOD! THE LAW HAS NEVER SAVED ANYBODY, AND NEVER WILL!

Reply
Then why does your post make the claim?


Grace, supplies righteousness, through faith.
Your suppositions show how little you know and how much you follow your pastor instead of the bible. Here is what Paul says grace is for in Romans:1:5: "By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:" Grace was given to us FOR OBEDIENCE!

Reply
Eph 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Parsing
8 For by (Gods) grace (unmerrited/unearned favor) are ye saved through faith (in the finished redemptive work of Jesus Christ); and that not of yourselves (no self effort is envolved): it is the gift of God (The Gift = GRACE is given, not earned)


1 Jn 3:4 Sin is a transgression of the Law:
Ok, we've all have broken God's law. No one can say he is not a sinner until some means is provided (not to take away the law) but to remove the sin, which is the transgression of the law. Jesus sacrifice/payment takes/removes our sin. Once our sins have been removed, there is no transgression of the law
So you are saying that you can never stop sinning? How often do your sins have to be "removed"? Everyone who has ever died in Christ has been saved by grace. To even consider that all who died before Christ have been saved by works shows a great lack of biblical insight.

Reply:
John 29:28 After this, Jesus knowing that """all things were now accomplished""", that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
(ALL things now ACCOMPLISHED!)

30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
(IT IS FINISHED! Strongs 5056 Finished = Greek word telos. Means an end, a termination, whether of time or purpose)

Jesus Christ completed the work of redemption. There is no waiting for something more to happen

Jesus delivered God's Grace: Jesus became sin, suffered separation, condemnation, fear, guilt, grief, "ALL MANKINDS SINS". Jesus, Forever! Nailed ALL SINS PAST-PRESENT-FUTURE to the Cross

Jesus sin atoning redemptive payment fulfilled ALL the Law's requirement's for sin. And is still fully in effect today!

There is nothing more to add, (no works from us needed) the WORK of REDEMPTION - IS FINISHED!

Salvation is available to anyone that receives Gods grace, confesses their sins to Him. And places their Faith in the sin atoning sacrifice. Found in the death, burial & resurrection of Jesus the Christ


The Law neither can nor will it ever forgive yours sins.
EXACTLY! The law ONLY points out sin. We are saved by grace which gives us the power to obey so we do not boast!


Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
(LAW KEEPING CAN'T/WON'T SAVE ANYONE)
Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
(JUSTIFIED = DECLARED RIGHTEOUS BY A SOVEREIGN GOD. WE ARE DECLARED RIGHTEOUS BY GOD THRU FAITH, NOT LAW KEEPING)
So what you are saying is all you have to do is say a few words and you are "saved" forever? Without ever having to confess your sins after you commit them? Or do you attend confession and tell them to a man?

Reply
Reread Rom 3:20 & 28


Grace, Righteousness, & Salvation are ALL Gifts from GOD received by Faith not Works.
Ephesians 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(IT'S GOD'S GIFT OF GRACE = UNDESERVED/UNEARNED FAVOR. AND THRU OUR FAITH IN CHRIST'S SIN ATONING SACRIFICIAL REDEMPTIVE PAYMENT OF JESUS THE CHRIST)
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(NO SELF EFFORT IS ENVOLVED. SO, WE CAN'T BOAST ABOUT HOW GREAT WE ARE)
You do what every nominal Christian does by leaving out the whole context of this most important issue, verse 10 which states: "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." Just because Paul wrote the way he did to the heathens and pagans who were steeped in works, where they had to do all sorts of rituals to appease their god, does not excuse our duty to do what the bible tells us to do. The whole bible is full of action. People like you throw out all the things we must do or not do just to deceive people into believing that Christianity is apathetic, and we do not have to do anything. Read the books of Timothy, Titus, James, Peter, Jude, John, all these balance out what you assume Paul to meant when he says "not of works LEST ANY MAN BOAST!" You come to the conclusion that just because Paul says not of works that we do not have to do anything. The last part of that sentence is the context of the whole idea, LEST ANY MAN BOAST! We are commanded to work, but not to take any credit for it.


1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
(""WHEN ALL OUR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS"" HAS BEED CLEANSED. WHAT'S LEFT? """ONLY RIGHTEOUSNESS"""!)
So all we have to do is confess one time and we are "saved" forever? You must confess your sins immediately after sinning, because the righteousness of Christ will NOT cover one unconfessed sin!

Reply
Eph 1:3 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed ""ye were sealed with that holy Spirit''" of promise
(WHATS THE "GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION"? AFTER YOU BELIEVED IN THE SIN ATONING DEATH, BURIAL & RESURRECTION OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. YOU WERE - "PAST TENSE"" SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT)

14 Which is the down payment of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
(YOUR SALVATION WAS SEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT & IS GUARANTEED BY GOD. AT THE MOMENT YOU PLACED YOUR FAITH/BELIEF/TRUST IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST)

Tim 1:14 The Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you
(BELIEVERS ARE GIVEN THE HOLY SPIRIT> AS A DEPOSIT & A GUARD)

Eph 4:30 grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are "sealed" unto the day of redemption
(BELIEVERS SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT. UNTIL THE DAY OF REDEMPTION. WHEN WE REVEIVED OUR NEW GLORIFIED BODY)

2 cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts
(EARNEST = DOWN PAYMENT! UNTIL WE REVEIVED OUR NEW GLORIFIED BODY)
Eph 1:
13 salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were "sealed" with that holy Spirit of promise,
(BELIEVERS SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT)

2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit
(EARNEST = A SALVATION DOWN PAYMENT! UNTIL WE REVEIVED OUR NEW GLORIFIED BODY)


Romans 1:5 """Through him we received grace""" & apostleship """to call all the Gentiles to the obedience""" """that comes from faith""" for his name’s sake.
(Faith leads to obedience)
Now this is quite the stretch. Adding to the word of God is a very serious offense. Faith does not lead to obedience in the way you suggest. Grace gives us power to obey. The cross is the power of God and the cross is His full display of grace. Salvation is so simple, it takes a lot of twisting to teach that works are not necessary for salvation.

Reply
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is "God-breathed" and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,”

Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is "living and active", "sharper than any two-edged sword", "piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow", and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Romans 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, """""so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience""""" """""that comes from faith"""""
(Gentiles are brought to obedience by Faith)
Whatever that means???

Reply
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is "God-breathed" and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,”


When Faith is your root. Good works & obedience will be your fruit. Maranatha
So you just write all this out and argue just for the fun of it? What exactly is faith? Is it a do nothing ascent to a traditional doctrine?


Galatians 2:16 man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
(LAW KEEPING CAN NOT SAVE YOU. ONLY THRU THE FAITH OF JESUS AND OUR FAITH IN JESUS, ARE WE JUSTIFIED "Declared Righteous")
I never said we are saved by keeping the law, but we certainly can be lost be not keeping it! Did you even read what I wrote? Nothing about salvation by works, just truth from the bible without all the add-ons like you are doing.

Reply
Yes you did! when you claim someone can lose salvation (AFTER BEING SEALED BY GODS HOLY SPIRIT) you are claiming its their good works that saves them.

Romans:2:13: "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."

Reply
Romans 11:29 The "gifts" & calling of God are """irrevocable"""
(GOD DOESN'T WITHDRAW WHAT HE HAS GIVEN, NOR DOES HE CHANGE HIS MIND, ABOUT THOSE TO WHOM HE HAS GIVEN HIS GRACE OR TO WHOM HE SENDS HIS CALL)

More help:
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(NO CONDEMNATION TO THOSE THAT PLACE THEIR FAITH/TRUST IN THE SIN ATONING DEATH, BURIAL & RESURRECTION OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST)

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in Jesus should not perish, but have eternal life.
(WHO EVER BELIEVES IN JESUS SIN ATONING DEATH, BURIAL & RESURRECTION OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST """HAS ETERNAL LIFE""")

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
(NOTE: ""ETERNAL LIFE"" & """THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH""". NOT UNTIL THE NEXT TIME YOU MAKE A MISTAKE)

Romans 8:
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(NOT: DEATH, LIFE, ANGELS, ANY POWER, ANY DOMINION, NOTHING IN YOUR PAST-PRESENT-FUTURE, NO HIEGHT, NO DEPTH, OR ANY CREATURE CAN SEPERATE US FROM GODS LOVE, WHICH WE ARE GIVEN WHEN WE PLACE OUR FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST)

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
(IF YOU BELIEVE: YOU MAY KNOW!!!!!!!!!! """HAVE ETERNAL LIFE"")

 

[Marvin Knox]

I have heard many, who say they are Christians, tell me that they do some of these things but it is okay because they are somehow, miraculously immune to sin, or they say that their sins do not apply to them because they are born again. This is the most dangerous teaching I have ever heard. Personally I have attended church in every mainstream denomination, and some denominations scare me on how far they take this issue.

I have been an active Christian for over 58 years now and have been associated with denominations ranging from Pentecostal and Word of Faith to Baptist and Presbyterian and from Catholic to Adventists.

I have never heard nor read the things said which you claim here. I believe that you are projecting what you believe other's doctrines "amount to" in your opinion. You are essentially accusing these brethren falsely.

If you want to say that eternal security or some other related doctrine of grace "amounts to' such and such - say that. Don't put words falsely contrived from your own bias into the mouths of others.

What you are doing is a sin that is all too common here in this section of the forum.

......I want to talk about Him 24/7, but I cannot find anybody, in the past 30 years who feels the same way.

IMO - another falsehood against other believers. Likely you feel superior in this way to others because you have determined in your bias that they are not really brothers at all because they do not rise to your level of piety.

Anyway, while I was talking to him he was doing all he can to avoid the conversation but wanted to be polite because we very seldom visited each other. At the end of the conversation he said that he spends 2 hours with God every week and that is all God requires from him, that is all he wants to spend with God. I asked him, what do you think heaven will be like? In the presence of pure righteousness, with no beer, no sin, nothing unhealthy, and everybody is righteous, without sin ever again. Would a person who does the things, I listed from Paul's writings, even want to be in heaven?....................

Frankly - I don't believe this conversation ever took place in the manner you describe.

It is - IMO - simply a contrivance as a means for your preaching the need for works of a certain level to make it to Heaven.

Just lay out your case without misrepresenting truth and your case will be more likely to prevail than when using obvious false witness.

The "peace and safety" gospel emanating from all pulpits in all denominations is causing this great lack of knowledge on this most important subject.

Nonsense!!!!!

Again - another generality put forward by you as a contrivance to present your version of what it takes to make it to Heaven as opposed to Hell.

The "peace and safety gospel" that is preached from the pulpits of Billy Graham, John MacArthur, or Charles Stanley is hardly preached from the Vatican, Salt Lake City and over the Word of Faith airwaves.

I call it the lovey dovey peace and safety gospel.

This is the first time I've ever heard the heresies of Romanism and Mormonism referred to as the "lovey dovey peace and safety gospel". I'm sure that Mother Theresa who died in constant fear of her salvation would disagree with you about that characterization as would Martin Luther as he whipped himself in his cell.

There are two sides of love! Jesus said in Revelation:3:19: "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."

Every pulpit I have ever listened to who preached the eternal security of the believer knows and also preaches this.

Do we hear any rebuke coming from any pulpits today?

Yes.

If you don't hear it - it is because you have set yourself on a throne of supposed piety far above our brothers and sisters around the world who happen to hold firmly to the doctrines of grace.

Or are we following this horrible principle that is enforced by the lovey dovey preachers?

What "horrible principle"?

Do you mean the words which you falsely ascribe to believers who do not agree with your doctrine of the insecurity of believers?

I would advise you to repent of your false accusations against your brothers and sisters.

"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."

 

[1John2:4]

This is what confuses me is I see people take Matthew 5: 17 out of context and create a whole doctrine around it. We need to take a good look at what Jesus said and not just make up stuff after the word fullfill.

Let's take a look at what He said.

Matthew 5:17
"Do not think I have come to destroy the law and the prophets but to fullfill.(this is usually where people insert their unusual doctrine, let's continue) For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, (heaven and earth are still here) NOT ONE JOT OR ONE TITTLE WILL BY NO MEANS PASS FROM THE LAW till ALL is fullfilled. (Including the passing away of heaven and earth) Whomever therefore BREAKS one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men to do so, shall be called LEAST in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever DOES and TEACHES them, he shall be called GREAT.

So exactly, how does what Jesus said remove the law and the prophets?

 

[EmSw]

I have been an active Christian for over 58 years now and have been associated with denominations ranging from Pentecostal and Word of Faith to Baptist and Presbyterian and from Catholic to Adventists.

I have never heard nor read the things said which you claim here. I believe that you are projecting what you believe other's doctrines "amount to" in your opinion. You are essentially accusing these brethren falsely.

If you want to say that eternal security or some other related doctrine of grace "amounts to' such and such - say that. Don't put words falsely contrived from your own bias into the mouths of others.

Marvin, have you ever heard of Joseph Prince? Here are a few quote from him -

"God will never judge America for her sin."

"If you receive a word from someone which brings your sins to remembrance or instills an expectation of punishment for sins in your life, don't fear it. Just throw it out the window."

"Repentance and confession of sin are never necessary."

The Free Grace, or Hyper-Grace movement does believe no sin will send you to hell - NONE!

 

[AJTruth]

Jehovah The Father And Jehovah The Son

This post will explain, how no one can see God & live.

Yet, many see Him and do live.

THREE SCRIPTURE THAT ARE CLEAR. NO HUMAN CAN SEE/STAND IN THE FATHERS PRESENTS:
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, but the only is at the Father's side, has made him known
(Only the Son has seen the Father)

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
(No man has seen the Father. Only the Son who is of the Father, has seen the Father)

1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
(The Son is the only immortal being within our universe. Only the Son can dwell in the Fathers light. No mortal can see the Father)

FIND MANY SCRIPTURES WHERE MAN SAW GOD. THEY DID NOT SEE GOD THE FATHER. THEY SAW GOD THE SON.

Genesis 14: Abram see's & has communion with Melchizedek.

Hebrews 7:3 Melchizdedek is: Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God;
(Abraham see & communions with God the Son)

Abraham see's God in Gen 12:7, 17:1, & 18:1 Here he see's God and in verse 5 Abraham eats with God.

Exodus 6:3 Jehovah tells Moses: He appeared to Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob.
(Jehovah is the Son, NOT THE FATHER)

Gen 32:24-30 Jacob see's God face to face & wrestles with Him
(Jacob see & wrestles with the Son, NOT THE FATHER)

Gen 35:9 Jacob see's God. verse 11 11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty:
(God Almighty is the Son. NOT THE FATHER)

Genesis 48:3 Jacob tells Joseph he saw God
(No man can see the Father. He saw God the Son)

Judges 6:22 & 23 Gideon see's the LORD face to face and talks to Him and lives.

Judges 13:22 Samson's parents see God and live

Acts 7:2 confirms, Abraham saw God and lived

HERE IT IS:
1 Corinthians 8:6 (A) But to us there is but one God, the Father, """of whom are all things""", and we in him;

(A) God the Father is the eternal First Cause, fountain of existence.)

1 Corinthians 8:6 (B) and one Lord Jesus Christ, """by whom are all things""", and we by him.

(B) God the Son, is the Agent by Whom the Father works within our universe. God the Son is preeminent in all things within our universe. Creation, redemption, resurrection, regeneration & preservation of all things within our created universe)

Zech 12:8-10 Identifies the OT Jehovah with/as Christ
8) The LORD (Jehovah) defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; & he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; & the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them

9) it shall come to pass in that day, "I" will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem

10) "I" will pour upon the house of David, & upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace & of supplications & they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, & they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, & shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first born

(Ok, In verse 8 the LORD, (Jehovah), is speaking. In verses 9 & 10 the pronoun, "I", refers to the same LORD, or Jehovah "I" will seek to destroy & "I" will pout out upon the house of David

"""HERE"S THE KEY"""
Vs 10 they shall look upon me (Jehovah) whom they pierced & they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, & shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first born
(Jehovah is Jesus God the Son)

Clearly, Jehovah is stating that it is HE the only begotten Son of the Father, even Jesus Christ, that shall be pierced & mourned, for whom they shall be in bitterness
(OT Jehovah is Jesus God the Son before His incarnation. 6:38 "Jesus said; I have come down from heaven" also see Jn 1:1,3, 14, Jn 6:33, Jn 8:23, Col 1:16 & 17)

The Son has the Fathers name Jehovah. Ex 23:21 (D) "FOR MY NAME IS IN HIM" And with the name come ALL POWER & AUTHORITY!

Before the creation of our universe. The pre-existing determinate counsel (Acts 2:23). God the Father-Son-Holy Spirit, crafted & executed the plan for our universe.

Jehovah the Father's Throne is beyond our universe/realm. Before time began, God the Son preexisted with God the Father.

God the Son Jehovah/Jesus is the agent by whom God the Father works in our universe.

God the Son Jehovah/Jesus is PREEMINENT in ALL things within our realm: Creation, Redemption, Resurrection, Mediation & Jugdment.

After creation Gen 1: God the Son rested from his work.

After God the Son finished the work of redemption.

He go's to Heaven and sits down next at the right hand of God the Father. Maranatha

 

[Marvin Knox]

Marvin, have you ever heard of Joseph Prince?

Yes.

Here are a few quote from him -

"God will never judge America for her sin."

"If you receive a word from someone which brings your sins to remembrance or instills an expectation of punishment for sins in your life, don't fear it. Just throw it out the window."

"Repentance and confession of sin are never necessary."

The Free Grace, or Hyper-Grace movement does believe no sin will send you to hell - NONE!

And your point in telling me something I already know is what exactly?

The "peace and safety" gospel emanating from all pulpits in all denominations is causing this great lack of knowledge on this most important subject.

What Joseph Prince preaches from his pulpit is hardly exactly what is "emanating from all pulpits in all denominations" - which is what was said to be the case.

Saying that "no sin will send you to hell" is not the same as was charged in the OP against believers in eternal security.

I have heard many, who say they are Christians, tell me that they do some of these things but it is okay because they are somehow, miraculously immune to sin, or they say that their sins do not apply to them because they are born again.

Words matter.

The OP should not publish their personal opinion of what another believer believes "amounts to" as what that believer actually believes and teaches.

 

[EmSw]

Yes.

And your point in telling me something I already know is what exactly?

Do you talk to your wife this way?

 

[Gabriel Anton]

For me I never get tired of sharing Jesus. I want to talk about Him 24/7,

Peace be with you.

That is Fantastic and Very Healthy. I Encourage you to Spread your Views about Jesus 24/7. Don't let anyone prevent you from doing so.

God bless you.