Who was Elijah ?

[Jamdoc]

Now ,if you could only quote where the word of God says these two witnesses do Gods will.

Can you quote any good deed performed by these two witnesses of Jesus?
Are they in fact keeping Jesus commandments by killing other people?
Is that what we are commanded to do for Jesus,Torment and kill people?

First to establish who is talking, Revelation 10, since the first part of Revelation 11 is connected to this, the chapter break was erroneously placed.

4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

So this voice from heaven commanding, is God.

8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.

Now that we have established who is speaking.. Revelation 11

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

God empowers them, they are the two olive trees (the anointed ones from Zechariah 4, which are shown to be Moses and Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration), and two candlesticks, which candlesticks are shown in Revelation 1 to be Churches.
They only destroy those who try to attack them.

after they are killed when Antichrist comes, and their bodies have been in the street...

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

God resurrects them and raptures them to heaven.

Does God do that to the wicked servant you're thinking of? No. God cuts them to pieces.

 

[tailgator]

The two witnesses are not smiting servants, they're smiting people who attack them. They're smiting the wicked.
I mean the clue is after they get killed they are resurrected and raptured.

I've read of people being resurected and cast alive into a lake of fire.
Just because they are resurected,doesn't make their works good.

Nor does being in the presence of the lamb make someone good

Revelation 14
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:



Someone might need to ascend into heaven to be in the presence of the lamb at that time.And from what ive seen of clouds that ascend from the earth into heaven,sometimes that kind of cloud is full of fire and brimstone.


Still no one has posted any good they have done.They spend 3.5 years tormenting and killing people and a few people on this board believe those things are good works.They believe it's good to torment and kill.I don't consider people should torment and kill In Jesus name.


I would think the following would be good to do in Jesus name.Things Jesus taught.

Mathew 10
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

 

[tailgator]

First to establish who is talking, Revelation 10, since the first part of Revelation 11 is connected to this, the chapter break was erroneously placed.

So this voice from heaven commanding, is God.


Now that we have established who is speaking.. Revelation 11

God empowers them, they are the two olive trees (the anointed ones from Zechariah 4, which are shown to be Moses and Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration), and two candlesticks, which candlesticks are shown in Revelation 1 to be Churches.
They only destroy those who try to attack them.

after they are killed when Antichrist comes, and their bodies have been in the street...

God resurrects them and raptures them to heaven.

Does God do that to the wicked servant you're thinking of? No. God cuts them to pieces.

You have established the voice they hear is God?

According to scripture ,their master was crucified.That means they are witnesses of Jesus.Jesus is their master and their masters words are in the gospel.

Revelation 11:8
Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.



Now that we have established who's witnesses these are we can precede.

Their Master is Jesus Christ.
They had better do as their master commands them in the gospel.


Do you believe Christ has no authority over christians?And these two are supposed to be christians seeing Jesus is their Master.

 

[tailgator]

Apparently ,people are now teaching the servants of Jesus Christ are supposed to torment and kill people.

Alot of christians are like that these days.Makes you wonder what has happened.




Revelation 11:8
Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.

 

[Jamdoc]

I've read of people being resurected and cast alive into a lake of fire.
Just because they are resurected,doesn't make their works good.

Nor does being in the presence of the lamb make someone good

Revelation 14
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:



Someone might need to ascend into heaven to be in the presence of the lamb at that time.And from what ive seen of clouds that ascend from the earth into heaven,sometimes that kind of cloud is full of fire and brimstone.


Still no one has posted any good they have done.They spend 3.5 years tormenting and killing people and a few people on this board believe those things are good works.They believe it's good to torment and kill.I don't consider people should torment and kill In Jesus name.


I would think the following would be good to do in Jesus name.Things Jesus taught.

Mathew 10
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

They're not being resurrected and going to the Lake of Fire, they're being resurrected and taken into heaven...

is this some elaborate troll?

 

[tailgator]

They're not being resurrected and going to the Lake of Fire, they're being resurrected and taken into heaven...

is this some elaborate troll?

Nothing elaborate about it.
I asked for one quote that shows the two witnesses actually doing something good

I have not seen a single quote of them doing anything good

Ascending into heaven where the Lamb of God is ,Is not a quote of a good work of theirs.
It could just mean they ascend up to heaven in a cloud of fire and brimstone in the presence of the lamb.

 

[tailgator]

Let's not forget the great earthquake that accompanies the cloud that ascends into heaven from Jerusalem.
These are very important pieces of information not to be overlooked.



Revelation 14
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

 

[tailgator]

Jesus commands his witnesses to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

So these two witnesses decide it would be a good idea to torment people.

What should they expect in return,?

 

[Jamdoc]

Let's not forget the great earthquake that accompanies the cloud that ascends into heaven from Jerusalem.
These are very important pieces of information not to be overlooked.



Revelation 14
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

the resurrection, and Earthquake are signs of the Day of the Lord.

They are GOD's 2 witnesses, they stand before the Lord of the Whole Earth (Zechariah 4:14, Revelation 11:4), and they are killed by the Beast, the Antichrist.

are you seriously trying to say the beast that kills them is the "good guy"?

 

[tailgator]

the resurrection, and Earthquake are signs of the Day of the Lord.

They are GOD's 2 witnesses, they stand before the Lord of the Whole Earth (Zechariah 4:14, Revelation 11:4), and they are killed by the Beast, the Antichrist.

are you seriously trying to say the beast that kills them is the "good guy"?

I didn't say the beast from the abyss is a good guy.The beast is doing the same thing the two witnesses have done.Killing people.

Why would you think it's bad for the beast to kill and say it's good for christians to kill?

Does Jesus command his witnesses to kill other people somewhere in the gospel that I don't know about,?

 

[tailgator]

Mathew 5:44
But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,


Is this what scripture says the two witnesses do?

No

 

[tailgator]

Mathew 5:39
But I say unto you that ye resist not evil, but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.


Do the two witnesses do this?

No.

 

[tailgator]

Mathew 7:12
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.


Do the two witnesses do this?

No

 

[Jamdoc]

I didn't say the beast from the abyss is a good guy.The beast is doing the same thing the two witnesses have done.Killing people.

Why would you think it's bad for the beast to kill and say it's good for christians to kill?

Does Jesus command his witnesses to kill other people somewhere in the gospel that I don't know about,?

they kill people who attack them.
you seem to gloss over that part.

you also seem to totally miss that when Jesus comes back He is going to be doing a LOT of killing. He's going to literally genocide all descendants of Esau.

 

[tailgator]

they kill people who attack them.
you seem to gloss over that part.

you also seem to totally miss that when Jesus comes back He is going to be doing a LOT of killing. He's going to literally genocide all descendants of Esau.

I haven't read where Jesus has to do a lot of killing.You say he is a killer but I haven't seen where he has killed anyone.He seems to always do good helping people .Feeding the poor ,making the blind see,making the lame walk.I see nothing wrong about anything he does.

Did Jesus teach his witnesses to kill anyone who hurts them?Is that part of a gospel I've never read of?
Does Jesus teach if someone smites thee on the cheek ,then blow their head off?

 

[Jamdoc]

I haven't read where Jesus has to do a lot of killing.You say he is a killer but I haven't seen where he has killed anyone.He seems to always do good helping people .Feeding the poor ,making the blind see,making the lame walk.I see nothing wrong about anything he does.

Did Jesus teach his witnesses to kill anyone who hurts them?Is that part of a gospel I've never read of?
Does Jesus teach if someone smites thee on the cheek ,then blow their head off?

Revelation 14

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Isaiah 34

1 Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.
2 For the indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.
3 Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.
6 The sword of the Lord is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the Lord hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.
7 And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

Idumea = another name for the land of Edom

Isaiah 63

1 Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.
2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?
3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.
4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.
6 And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.

Revelation 19

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Jesus is not just the Lamb of God.
He is also the LION of the Tribe of Judah.
The first time He came to save us from our sins, and provide us with atonement and forgiveness.
But when He returns it will be to save those in Christ under great persecution, and to avenge the martyrs, to judge the Earth, and tread the winepress of His wrath.
Note that in Revelation 19. His clothes are already dipped in blood, as they are in Isaiah 63.
It is the blood of His enemies.

 

[tailgator]

Revelation 14


Isaiah 34


Idumea = another name for the land of Edom

Isaiah 63


Revelation 19


Jesus is not just the Lamb of God.
He is also the LION of the Tribe of Judah.
The first time He came to save us from our sins, and provide us with atonement and forgiveness.
But when He returns it will be to save those in Christ under great persecution, and to avenge the martyrs, to judge the Earth, and tread the winepress of His wrath.
Note that in Revelation 19. His clothes are already dipped in blood, as they are in Isaiah 63.
It is the blood of His enemies.

As I understand it,the sharp sword coming out of Jesus mouth is the word of God which he spoke on the gospel.

I may be wrong ,but I dont see Jesus with a AR 15 gunning people down.I don't see him beheading people like king Herod would do.I see Jesus simply saving people who are about to be destroyed and not saving others from being destroyed.


As for the two witnesses,they are christians who are commanded by Jesus with the sharp sword in his mouth to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Sounds to me like the two witnesses have fallen away because they don't do as their master has commanded.
Yet ,you believe they are good people and do everything their Lord commands in the gospel.

 

[Jamdoc]

As I understand it,the sharp sword coming out of Jesus mouth is the word of God which he spoke on the gospel.

I may be wrong ,but I dont see Jesus with a AR 15 gunning people down.I don't see him beheading people like king Herod would do.I see Jesus simply saving people who are about to be destroyed and not saving others from being destroyed.


As for the two witnesses,they are christians who are commanded by Jesus with the sharp sword in his mouth to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Sounds to me like the two witnesses have fallen away because they don't do as their master has commanded.
Yet ,you believe they are good people and do everything their Lord commands in the gospel.

No the first time Jesus came He came to save. the second time He comes it's a rescue of those already saved from persecution, and then rendering judgement/vengeance on those who persecuted the saints.
He's not coming to preach salvation to those people, He is killing them with His word. Carrion fowl don't fill their bellies on the flesh of someone preached the gospel and getting saved.

again apparently you only know the Lamb, and are uncomfortable with Jesus being the Lion.
You're going to have to accept that God offers forgiveness of sin... but for those who do not repent. He has wrath, and severe judgement.
Jesus is going to be doing far more severe things than mowing down someone with a gun.

as for the 2 witnesses. they are doing the same things Moses did... by God's command in Egypt, the 10 plagues, and just as Elijah made it not rain... by God's command.
There is a time for the gospel to be shared. But there is a time when the the fulness of the Gentiles are come in, and the Gospel will no longer be available.
A time when foolish virgins seek to buy oil, and get rejected by Jesus outside the gate, and Jesus does not tell them to just wait awhile He denies them utterly.
A time when there will be a famine, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:

Amos 8

9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord God, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:
10 And I will turn your feasts into mourning, and all your songs into lamentation; and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head; and I will make it as the mourning of an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day.
11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:
12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.
13 In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.
14 They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say, Thy god, O Dan, liveth; and, The manner of Beersheba liveth; even they shall fall, and never rise up again.

 

[tailgator]

No the first time Jesus came He came to save. the second time He comes it's a rescue of those already saved from persecution, and then rendering judgement/vengeance on those who persecuted the saints.
He's not coming to preach salvation to those people, He is killing them with His word. Carrion fowl don't fill their bellies on the flesh of someone preached the gospel and getting saved.

again apparently you only know the Lamb, and are uncomfortable with Jesus being the Lion.
You're going to have to accept that God offers forgiveness of sin... but for those who do not repent. He has wrath, and severe judgement.
Jesus is going to be doing far more severe things than mowing down someone with a gun.

as for the 2 witnesses. they are doing the same things Moses did... by God's command in Egypt, the 10 plagues, and just as Elijah made it not rain... by God's command.
There is a time for the gospel to be shared. But there is a time when the the fulness of the Gentiles are come in, and the Gospel will no longer be available.
A time when foolish virgins seek to buy oil, and get rejected by Jesus outside the gate, and Jesus does not tell them to just wait awhile He denies them utterly.
A time when there will be a famine, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:

Amos 8

He has already delivered his word
Jesus doesn't have to do anything else to kill anyone.His word is still with us.

 

[tailgator]

While the two witnesses spend 3.5 years tormenting and killing people.The saints of God who are doing what they supposed to do,will be imprisoned and killed in Israel.

Daniel 11:33-35
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.
During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.
And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.