Who Started the Great Schism?

prodromos

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Then what is the issue?

Because Jesus said I send. Proceeds from is sent from.
No, "proceeds" is "goes out from" or "moves towards something". It is not "sent from"
Jesus speaks in place of the Father and says if You see Me, you see the Father.
A child will be born and shall be CALLED the Father Almighty.
Jesus speaks of the Son from the place of the Father, as though speaking of another rather than Himself.
And does so interchangeably. Because They are ONE. Not separate. SO what the Father does, so does the Son, the Spirit of the Lord Who is in fact the Lord.
AND lastly because Jesus goes away and sends the Holy Spirit because of His life, death and Resurrection the Holy Spirit proceeds. His life, death and Resurrection was the Will of the Father. So it was the Will of the Father in the Three Divine.
Are you implying that the Holy Spirit sends itself? After all, all three persons are ONE. They all share the same divine will.
 
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prodromos

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What is natural and what is personal is actually an intriguing argument because Jesus said
"SImon you are MY Rock and I am building MY Church upon you and the gates of hell will NEVER prevail against THE CHURCH I am building upon YOU...
Adding to Scripture is bad enough. Putting words into our Lord's mouth is evil.
Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
SO if the Chair of Peter allowed this, then it is allowed in Heaven anything interpreted otherwise is personal interpretation.
I seem to recall one of your Popes having the creed inscribed on silver plaques without the filioque on the walls of St Peter's in Rome
In Judaism, keys yes keys are authority.
The steward in place of the KING Himself.

And that KING handed it all over to Peter His Rock with absolute confidence and HE wanted the others to be one with Peter as He was with the Father.
Peter was the ONLY one with the keys... to teach the WHOLE Church built upon him and HIS teachings.

Otherwise indeed it's just personal interpretation.
Another of Rome's errors rejected by the Church
 
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PsaltiChrysostom

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the sack of Constantinople was where the divide became clear and open.
Thanks, I've been listening to a podcast of the history of the Byzantine Empire and the Fourth Crusade was a fiasco from day one and pretty much all the leaders were lying or withholding information from everyone including the Pope and even the Byzantine prince Alexios Angelos. It seemed as though this was where everything broke down between any reconciliation between East and West.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Thanks, I've been listening to a podcast of the history of the Byzantine Empire and the Fourth Crusade was a fiasco from day one and pretty much all the leaders were lying or withholding information from everyone including the Pope and even the Byzantine prince Alexios Angelos. It seemed as though this was where everything broke down between any reconciliation between East and West.
yep, and then Rome’s continuing separation from the Apostolic faith furthered the separation.
 
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prodromos

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Thanks, I've been listening to a podcast of the history of the Byzantine Empire and the Fourth Crusade was a fiasco from day one and pretty much all the leaders were lying or withholding information from everyone including the Pope and even the Byzantine prince Alexios Angelos. It seemed as though this was where everything broke down between any reconciliation between East and West.
I remember reading about the lead up to the Latin massacre in Constantinople (where I believe the Doge of Venice lost his sight, hence his deep hatred for the Byzantines). There were basically a number of Latin communities from different regions that lived in their own quarters of the city, the Venetians, the Pisans, the Almafians etc. but what I did not know was there was constant fighting between the different quarters as they each tried to control as much of the trade as they could. It read just like the modern mafia families of Italy in the last century. The constant fighting and the absolute stranglehold they had on all trade eventually became too much for the Byzantine citizens which resulted in the overreaching backlash, affecting not just the "mob" families but anything and anyone associated with them.
 
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PsaltiChrysostom

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I remember reading about on the lead up to the Latin massacre in Constantinople (where I believe the Doge of Venice lost his sight, hence his deep hatred for the Byzantines). There were basically a number of Latin communities from different regions that lived in their own quarters of the city, the Venetians, the Pisans, the Almafians etc. but what I did not know was there was constant fighting between the different quarters as they each tried to control as much of the trade as they could. It read just like the modern mafia families of Italy in the last century. The constant fighting and the absolute stranglehold they had on all trade eventually became too much for the Byzantine citizens which resulted in the overreaching backlash, affecting not just the "mob" families but anything and anyone associated with them.
Yup, there was a mass arrest of all Latins ordered by Manuel I and then the massacre itself when Andronikos was crowned.

Following the death of Manuel I in 1180, his widow, the Latin princess Maria of Antioch, acted as regent to her infant son Alexios II Komnenos. Her regency was notorious for the favoritism shown to Latin merchants and the big aristocratic land-owners, and was overthrown in April 1182 by Andronikos I Komnenos, who entered the city in a wave of popular support.[1][12] Almost immediately, the celebrations spilled over into violence towards the hated Latins, and after entering the city's Latin quarter a mob began attacking the inhabitants.[4]
Many had anticipated the events and escaped by sea.[3] The ensuing massacre was indiscriminate: neither women nor children were spared, and Latin patients lying in hospital beds were murdered.[4] Houses, churches, and charities were looted.[4] Latin clergymen received special attention, and Cardinal John, the papal legate, was beheaded and his head was dragged through the streets at the tail of a dog​

If anyone is interested here is the podcast.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Adding to Scripture is bad enough. Putting words into our Lord's mouth is evil.

I seem to recall one of your Popes having the creed inscribed on silver plaques without the filioque on the walls of St Peter's in Rome

Another of Rome's errors rejected by the Church
What occurred with St Clement i?
All the way from the East to the West for teaching.

The Pope is the teacher of the whole Church. [St Chrysostom]
So if at a time the Pope includes the filioque for the assistance of some and he leaves the 99 who knows the teachings, then let him seek the lost.
In every generation a new 'bad' comes up and or questions that the teacher of the whole Church is allowed to allow changes per the lost sheep.

Show me where I put words in the Lord's mouth.

Just because you do not like His words, does not mean anyone is changing anything.
I'm going to assume or believe on this point you just don't like His words and so feel it is possible to disagree.
 
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WarriorAngel

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The ensuing massacre was indiscriminate: neither women nor children were spared, and Latin patients lying in hospital beds were murdered.[4] Houses, churches, and charities were looted.[4]
That would seem very unholy and evil.
 
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WarriorAngel

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yep, and then Rome’s continuing separation from the Apostolic faith furthered the separation.
Upon THIS Rock I shall build MY Church.

If you are not on that Rock, with that Rock and obedient to that Rock, are you really in His Church?
 
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ArmyMatt

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Upon THIS Rock I shall build MY Church.

If you are not on that Rock, with that Rock and obedient to that Rock, are you really in His Church?
I am on that rock, and in his Church. read the Fathers on this.

and this is another red herring.
 
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PsaltiChrysostom

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That would seem very unholy and evil.
And the Latin Sack of Constantinople was just as repulsive such as breaking the altar in the Hagia Sophia and placing a prostitute on the bishops throne. At least Pope John Paul 2, restored some of the stolen relics, such as the relics of St. John Chrysostom, back to the Patriarch of Constantinople.
 
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prodromos

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What occurred with St Clement i?
All the way from the East to the West for teaching.
Corinth was a ROMAN colony in the middle of Greece, so it already had strong cultural ties with Rome. Much of the trade travelling from the Ionian sea to the Aegean passed through Corinth so there was regular correspondence between Rome and Corinth. Add that to the fact that the Church in Corinth was established by Paul, and that Clement was a close companion of Paul's. It's a no brainer.
The Pope is the teacher of the whole Church. [St Chrysostom]
Not what St John Chrysostom said, and his life contradicts your interpretation. He received his ordination to the priesthood from bishops who were not in communion with Rome.
So if at a time the Pope includes the filioque for the assistance of some and he leaves the 99 who knows the teachings, then let him seek the lost.
That's a case of the blind leading the blind where they all end up falling into a pit.
In every generation a new 'bad' comes up and or questions that the teacher of the whole Church is allowed to allow changes per the lost sheep.
Nope, we are to hold fast to the faith handed down from the Apostles.
Show me where I put words in the Lord's mouth.
In this post
What is natural and what is personal is actually an intriguing argument because Jesus said
"SImon you are MY Rock and I am building MY Church upon you and the gates of hell will NEVER prevail against THE CHURCH I am building upon YOU..
Jesus did not say "you are MY rock"
Just because do not like His words, does not mean anyone is changing anything.
I'm going to assume or believe on this point you just don't like His words and so feel it is possible to disagree
I love God's word. It is your word I reject.
 
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I rarely read fiction (such as the OP's video), so I thought I'd share a short read from the non-fiction section.
that is a short read, but is missing a lot of important history especially if claiming it’s “non-fiction.”
 
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