- Apr 29, 2010
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Okay, fair enough. I won't drag this thread in that direction (too close to christian apologetics), but suffice it to say that I find any claim to "external validation of Scripture", given the tale of Noah's flood, to be completely untenable.
See, you say you know... But I don't think you can. Let's just take the most clear example. Imagine someone replaced your wife with a philosophical zombie - identical in every way, except that she now lacks subjective experience. Could you tell? Given that the entire purpose of the thought experience is to demonstrate that the belief in consciousness outside our own is impossible... Well, you get the idea. And given that we're talking about a supernatural entity... I'm sorry, "I just know" isn't particularly impressive.
It's not hard for me to grasp. A lot of people here have such a worldview. What's hard for me to grasp is why it's so hard for them to see the rather significant flaws contained in such a worldview. Filtering reality through the lens of the bible instead of the other way around implies that while the bible is flawless, reality is not. When there is a contradiction between the bible and reality, you are forced to side with the bible. This is absurd. The bible is an ancient book. Reality is what we live through on a day-to-day basis. And yet, if I were to ask you if you believed in the biblical flood, which is utterly contradicted by Geology, Geography, Physics, Zoology, Biology, Genetics, and Boatbuilding (just to name a few disciplines), I get the feeling you'd say yes.
Beyond that, it requires axiomic assumptions that other tenable worldviews do not. If you hold the bible as the ultimate arbiter of truth, you still need all the other axioms that naturalistic worldviews adopt - "the universe exists", "our perception of reality is accurate", etc; and then you need to tack on another few regarding the bible and its role. This is philosophically untenable - we want to make as few assumptions as we possibly can, and be able to check as many of those assumptions as possible as often as possible.
Wait, you have a biblical worldview and you've never heard the story of Jephthah?
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Judges 11
30 And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord: “If you give the Ammonites into my hands, 31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord’s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.”
32 Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the Lord gave them into his hands. 33 He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon.
34 When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of timbrels! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter. 35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, “Oh no, my daughter! You have brought me down and I am devastated. I have made a vow to the Lord that I cannot break.”
36 “My father,” she replied, “you have given your word to the Lord. Do to me just as you promised, now that the Lord has avenged you of your enemies, the Ammonites. 37 But grant me this one request,” she said. “Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my friends, because I will never marry.”
38 “You may go,” he said. And he let her go for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never marry. 39 After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.
For all intents and purposes, Andrea Yates could have been a bible story. This is the problem. It's possible to do things we view (rightfully) as horribly immoral which the bible allows or even demands. The keeping of slaves. The killing of homosexuals, adulterers, and women who are not virgins on their wedding nights. The sacrifice of one's children. Things like that.32 Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the Lord gave them into his hands. 33 He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon.
34 When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of timbrels! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter. 35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, “Oh no, my daughter! You have brought me down and I am devastated. I have made a vow to the Lord that I cannot break.”
36 “My father,” she replied, “you have given your word to the Lord. Do to me just as you promised, now that the Lord has avenged you of your enemies, the Ammonites. 37 But grant me this one request,” she said. “Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my friends, because I will never marry.”
38 “You may go,” he said. And he let her go for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never marry. 39 After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.
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