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Who prayed for this?

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by visionary, Jun 21, 2013.

  1. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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  2. Avodat

    Avodat Contending for Biblical truth

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    It is not a fleet - it is one just vessel. It has not 'crashed', it appears to have split in two. The normal reason for a split like that, (if it is not sabotage) would be bad loading - uneven weight displacement across the vessel, though that is very rare. Oil tankers have split in two but that is usually uneven tank filling, though on one occasion it was a tanker that had been 'stretched'; a practice that was then banned. However, if uneven displacement was the case, alarms should have been going long before it got where it is- it should have been noticed prior to leaving port. An alternative might be that it simply encountered really bad weather, though in that case I would expect many of the containers to have been jettisoned to save the vessel (no matter what they contained - the insurance would cover such a situation).

    Given these brief thoughts (having worked for some years in a shipping company - oil tankers) I would be thinking of, perhaps, a large explosion in a container about midships where the greatest strain would be felt. If it was loaded with explosive / arms that may well be shown to be the case. However, shipping explosives is a heavily regulated trade and it is unlikely that, in normal shipping, anything likely to explode would be placed low enough to cause such damage - it would normally be placed as high as possible with minimal footprint to avoid such major damage.

    I would also question how someone was there to get the photograph!

    [Edit] Here is the official report:

    A container vessel owned and operated by Mitsui O.S.K. Lines has sunk about 200 nautical miles off Yemen in the Indian Ocean after its hull cracked amidship.
    The crack in the vessel, 'MOL Comfort', reportedly caused water to flow into the cargo hold during inclement weather.
    Mitsui O.S.K. Lines said in a statement that the incident occurred at about noon JST on June 17; MOL Comfort was on its way from Singapore to Jeddah carrying 4,500 containers
    "Some of the containers on the vessel were lost overboard or suffered damage during the incident," read the statement. "Details are being confirmed."
    There were 26 crew members onboard the 2008-built, Bahamas-flagged MOL Comfort when the incident occurred, including 11 Russians, one Ukrainian and 14 Filipinos.
    All the crew members are safe and have been rescued by a coordinated operation involving the Indian Coast Guard and they are now on their way to Colombo, Sri Lanka on the Hapag-Lloyd containership Yantian Express.
    According to reports from IANS News, the ICG Mumbai diverted three vessels in the area to assist, including MV Hanjin Beijing, MV Zim India and MV Yantian Express, the last of which was the closest to the scene.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2013
  3. Avodat

    Avodat Contending for Biblical truth

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    The vessel has not sunk, reports now say that it is floating in two parts. The initial comments in the trade are related to uneven weight displacement (many shippers under-declare because it saves money). Having said, above, that alarms should have been sounding in port, I suspect it may have been on the very limits of allowable overall weight, combined with bad weather and a partial uneven displacement of the weight across the vessel. It is not a very large vessel - only about 90,000 tonnes, is just 5 years old, built in a very reputable Japanese ship-yard and operated by a shipping line with an impeccable record. Good to know that all crew are safe. Marine experts will now wait for the salvage crews to tow the two parts to the nearest port and all containers will be weighed and inspected prior to releasing them for ongoing shipment to their original destination. The container contents are irrelevant to this exercise unless they were wrongly declared at shipment. There is no indication as to what was on the manifest, at this point.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2013
  4. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    Alright then ... which of you guys quit praying over this...
     
  5. Avodat

    Avodat Contending for Biblical truth

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    Lol!



    or is it divine will that the cargo (whatever it is) gets to its destination?
     
  6. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    Who put the kabosh into this plan?
     
  7. ContraMundum

    ContraMundum Messianic Jewish Christian Supporter

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    Who is praying that the weapons don't get to the FSA? Hezbollah, Abbas....the usual tyrants.
     
  8. Avodat

    Avodat Contending for Biblical truth

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    We have no confirmation whether there are any weapons on the vessel. It is certainly the case that not all the containers were loaded with weapons - that can be independently verified.
     
  9. ContraMundum

    ContraMundum Messianic Jewish Christian Supporter

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    You're right- this could all be propaganda or misdirection too.
     
  10. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    That'd be a lot of energy placed into propaganda for such to occur, IMHO...as it concerns claiming weapons were being massively shipped in secret via boat to Syria.

    Nonetheless, it is the case that we in the U.S have chosen to back up Syria when it comes to weapons given to the rebels (training them since 2012 ) - and the consequences thereof are tragic when considering what has happened.

    Washington D.C., is backing Syrian rebels who are systematically executing (murdering) Christians in the streets, in their homes, and in their churches. They are killing priests and nuns, women and children, and all funded with American tax dollars. What have we heard from the mainstream news media in the United States on this issue? Silence

    In many respects .....America: Arming tomorrows enemies today. U.S is politically involved for more reasons than trying to help out Syria since the nation has often been a key point of control/commerce in differing ways for decades....and destabilizing things opens up the door for a lot of trouble and access for the U.S in addressing other nations that it sees as enemies. Why the allies of the West seem to be aiding people brings up dynamics of having a war by proxy....for it can't be overlooked that the U.S is giving aid to the same rebels harming so many. It all seems to be too much of a coincindence---and much of it seeming like an international "shell game" where people hide how things are at times do "bait and switch"


    [​IMG]

    It is true that there has been much social disorder of late ..but what many have not considered is that it is outsiders (i.e. criminal organizations from other countries ) that are doing much harm toward the Syrian people rather than natives of Syria themselves - seeing how many have noted the biggest beneficiaries of U.S intervention are groups from outside Syria who get to raise chaos (including those who kidnapped the two bishops for ransom ( #33/#13 ).

    We really have to pray for them, and all our brothers suffering in Syria due to the ways
    Ephesians 6:18
    18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.
    Hebrews 13:3
    3 Remember the prisoners as if chained with them—those who are mistreated—since you yourselves are in the body also.
    It's sad to witness in action, as many seem so focused on the weapons aspect/fighting that many forget about the innocents harmed in the process...especially as it concerns the Christians in Syria.

    • Syria Militants Massacre Christian Village Population (Graphic Images),” from Syria Report,
    As said there:
    More details of a massacre in Homs late last month have emerged following the global outcry of a massacre in Deir el-Zour yesterday.The massacre, carried out by Free Syrian Army militants reportedly targeted men, women and children in the Christian village of al-Duwayr/Douar close to the city of Homs and the border with Lebanon. The incident received little media attention, having occurred at the same time as thousands of Syrian troops converged on the insurgent-occupied town of al-Qusayr.According to sources, around 350 heavily armed militants entered the village, broke into homes and assembled residents in the main square of the village where they were executed. The final death toll is not known but photos show severe damage to property in the village. Syrian army sources said that they reached the village after the massacre, resulting in clashes with militants.

    [​IMG]


    The events taking place in Syria have been things others warned of ages ago - and sadly, what is happening here is no different than what occurred with the believers in Iraq when they were damaged extensively by the U.S getting involved where it never had any business doing so - regardless of how much the U.S may claim that they got involved to "bring freedom"/democracy...

    Specifically, when considering the plight of how the Christians of Iraq suffered immensely as a result of strength being used the WRONG WAY by the U.S in the name of "war against terror", so many have suffered as a result - having to flee when other groups came to power and being isolated. For all the Iraq Christians/the Assyrian Christians that were wiped out in the process (if aware of the Assyrian Church of the East - more here in #63 /#126 ), it's amazing how much in the way of Assyrian Christianity seems to be lost in our times - and sadly, not many in the West are aware of how much actions in the Western world have damaged the Assyrian one.
    What happened in the Iraq War is sadly something which seems to be repeating itself in Syria - and all due to how the U.S seems clueless on all the sides which are making a difference.


    As I have said before elsewhere, the Salafi Jihadists, who harmed Christians not getting involved in the revolts, are playing a HUGE role in Syria. Numerous videos show massive numbers of Salafi Jihadists executing war crime after war crime and taking to the streets ...and many radical Fundamentalist groups in Syria have been given free reign and have the potential to do A LOT OF damage if empowered. . To destabilize an already somewhat stable neutral friendly regime goes only so far if you don't consider "We replace it with a what?"...and when considering the ways that the Syrian rebels themselves are already harming innocent people, something needs to give.

    The US trained and armed Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan and that is the modal in which we now judge arming Arabs in certain nations. Thus Syria having a large potential fundamentalist Islamic population (many with tendencies toward RADICAL Islam) needs to be seen as a BIG deal when it comes to giving any form of US heavy weapons or direct military involvement since it is essentially aiding people who have harmed others as well.

    İpek Yezdani, writing in the Turkish Hürriyet Daily News concedes, that Syrian rebels are too fragmented and unruly to really do anything lasting in terms of true revolution. Her article is subtitled, "The opposition militants battling Syrian President Bashar al-Assad are a fragmented rabble that refuses to follow orders, according to activists." As she said:
    There are more than 30 different rebel groups, including the most prominent rebel group, the “Free Syrian Army” (FSA), fighting in Syria, according to officials from the most prominent Syrian opposition group, the Syrian National Council (SNC).

    The Jihadists, Islamists, pro-al-Qaida and secular groups that are not under the control of the FSA and which are fighting in different areas of Syria against the Syrian regime forces prove how fragmented and disorganized the Syrian rebel groups were in Syria.

    She reports that an SNC member said mainly Chechens, Libyans and a few Afghans were fighting on the fronts in Syria. “Most of them fight in Syria to be martyrs,” ( here )..and to see the full range of groups involved:



    [​IMG]

    There's much at risk with Syria being something we get involved in - and many have noted high suspicions on the ways it may be the case the U.S is arming the wrong side intentionally (#8 /#13 , 37 , #410 and #415)​

    ...The video presentations/interviews by other Syrian Christians - including those who are refugees in other countries and those a part of the Orthodox Church taking care of them - who've noted the issue for what it is.. it is alarming to see that the fact that Syrian Christians are being harmed immensely. Syria’s Orthodox Christian Church reports “ongoing ethnic cleansing of Christians” by al-Qaeda-linked Islamist militant groups in the embattled Syrian city of Homs. Moreover, according to reports by Barnabas Aid, a relief agency assisting Syrian Christians, the forced Christian exodus from Homs has been ongoing since the beginning of February when armed Islamists murdered more than 200 Christians, “including entire families with young children.


    This is not something new, sadly, as Islamist attacks against Syria’s Christian community, including kidnappings and murder, have occurred almost from the onset of the popular uprising against the regime of Syrian President Bashar Assad in March 2011. Specifically, the murders - which have killed over 100 Christians - include the hanging of a 28-year-old man, a 40 year-old father of two shot dead, two young men killed while waiting in line at a bakery, and a 37-year-old father with a pregnant wife, his body cut into pieces and thrown in a river.

    Additionally, it is unfortunately the case that Syrian Islamist brigades have been getting assistance from outside terror organizations/mercenaries from Iraq and Libya, aid which Director of National Intelligence James Clapper acknowledged in February when he testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee that “al-Qaeda in Iraq is extending its reach into Syria. For those who are Syrian Christians, the times are very dire indeed...


    For other places to review:

    The work by Nuri Kino, award winning Swedish-Assyrian author and investigative journalist, is something that is well-documented in light of how he has met and interviewed nearly one hundred Christian Syrian refugees, giving a 40-page report on the repeated tales of systematic rape/kidnappings and many other things that many often think aren't happening in Syria to Christians...more found in Between The Barbed Wire . As Giuseppe Nazzaro, the Vicar Apostolic of Aleppo, said, “In this situation the Islamist and terrorist movements are making headway,” adding “These are bad times for religious minorities.” It is a conflict we should NOT be involved in...
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2013
  11. Avodat

    Avodat Contending for Biblical truth

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    Unless the vessel was sub-chartered it is most unlikely to be full of ammunition and weapons. In fact we know that it is not sub-chartered - it was operated by MOL on a long term charter from a Russian owner. A vessel full of such cargo would be in special measures and tightly controlled as to where it could discharge - lots of ports have not the facilities to ship such cargoes.

    There may be some containers on board that have ammunition and weapons but an 8000 TEU vessel full of such things on a scheduled fleet journey is just not going to happen. The cargo was mixed - we know that because various shipping companies have been advising their customers that some cargo has been lost or damaged. If it had been sub-chartered to ship weapons to the extent claimed, various shipping companies would have no interest in the vessel; a damaged vessel, in two parts, carrying such a cargo floating without any power in the middle of the Indian ocean, enroute from Singapore to Jeddah, would be causing an enormous stir, not just a routine salvage operation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2013
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