Who is the true Israel of God?

[keras]

So, you are saying that if the church is not Israel - then there has to be a rapture to heaven?

Please, do not misquote me.
Obviously the church isn't the Jewish State of Israel.
The true Church, the Israel of God consists of every righteous believer, who are scattered among the nations at present. Soon to be gathered and settled into all of the holy Land. Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Psalms 107:1-3

 

[giftofGod2]

@keras ,

Those of us who believe in a pre-tribuation rapture do not need to defend it as a doctrine...it will be proven in the moment that it happens!

As for you...what about you? Will you be caught up to meet the Lord in the air when this fateful event takes place?

Consider the answer in Hebrews 9:28.

We all need to be looking for Him, expectantly waiting for Him. It will happen unexpectedly, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye...and it could happen at any moment. Only those who are looking for Him will even be caught up.

But when He returns, will He find faith on the earth?

 

[CodyFaith]

plus..... their mother being a Jew by blood.

.

Why just mother?

Why not father as well? The belief that genealogy of a Jewish person is passed down strictly through the mother is a Jewish (Judaism) belief.
Solomon's son, Rehoboam, a king of Israel, was clearly an Israelite yet his mother was an Ammonitess (1 Kings 14:21).

 

[Straightshot]

"Those of us who believe in a pre-tribuation rapture do not need to defend it as a doctrine...it will be proven in the moment that it happens!"

No doubt

We must be ready as the Lord tells .... he will come as a thief with no warning

Those who enter the tribulation period which which has exact documented time lapse in scripture will be able to count down the days to the Lord's appearing upon the earth

And the Lord will give plenty of warning with His unprecedented judgments during the period for all in the tribulation to experience

The event of His early call for His true ecclesia before the tribulation [Revelation 3:10] is obviously different than His appearing at the end of it

 

[keras]

Why just mother?

The OP proves that ethnicity doesn't matter, its faith that counts.

Those of us who believe in a pre-tribuation rapture do not need to defend it as a doctrine...it will be proven in the moment that it happens!"

Wouldn't it be better to believe in the truth of what the prophets told us?
Please address the OP question.

 

[Straightshot]

"Wouldn't it be better to believe in the truth of what the prophets told us?
Please address the OP question."


I already have addressed the OP question .... and you know it

Your following is not the "Israel of God" .... the Israel of God are those of ethnic Israel who have not and do not reject Jesus Christ as Messiah and King

The Gentile portion of the "church" is never referred to as the "Israel of God in any scripture

Also, when any poster brings up the Lord's pre-tribulation call I will also address this because of the significance of the event

 

[Douggg]

Why just mother?

Why not father as well? The belief that genealogy of a Jewish person is passed down strictly through the mother is a Jewish (Judaism) belief.
Solomon's son, Rehoboam, a king of Israel, was clearly an Israelite yet his mother was an Ammonitess (1 Kings 14:21).

Cody, Solomon was the one who was responsible for the idols to be setup in Israel, influened by all of the foreign wives he had. Following the Babylonian captivity, upon returning, Ezra and Nehemiah discovered the caretaker Jews had themselves taken foreign wives and had children by them. They were greatly upset, because it was a replay of Solomon's folly which ended up in the split of the kingdom and the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities. So Ezra and Nehemiah shamed the Jews to send away their foreign wives and their children.... and have only Jewish wives. I am pretty sure that is where it got started a person is a Jew if their mother is a Jew.

 

[LastSeven]

Those of us who believe in a pre-tribuation rapture do not need to defend it as a doctrine...it will be proven in the moment that it happens!

I guess by that logic you could claim faries live under your porch but you don't have to defend that claim because it will be proven when they reveal themselves.

 

[CodyFaith]

Cody, Solomon was the one who was responsible for the idols to be setup in Israel, influened by all of the foreign wives he had. Following the Babylonian captivity, upon returning, Ezra and Nehemiah discovered the caretaker Jews had themselves taken foreign wives and had children by them. They were greatly upset, because it was a replay of Solomon's folly which ended up in the split of the kingdom and the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities. So Ezra and Nehemiah shamed the Jews to send away their foreign wives and their children.... and have only Jewish wives. I am pretty sure that is where it got started a person is a Jew if their mother is a Jew.

Why then, was his son Rehoboam an Israelite? And not only an Israelite, but a king.

 

[keras]

Your following is not the "Israel of God" .... the Israel of God are those of ethnic Israel who have not and do not reject Jesus Christ as Messiah and King

Only God knows who the ethnic of Israel are. Amos 9:9
But from proven historical, archeological, linguistic and heraldic facts, it seems that a high proportion of the people in the Western nations have ethnic descent from Jacob. It is them, us, who have become Christian, all as God has planned it to happen.
OF course this truth blows the rapture to heaven theory out of the water, so you have to deny it, to your shame.

 

[keras]

Why then, was his son Rehoboam an Israelite? And not only an Israelite, but a king.

Because foreigners have always been allowed to join Israel, provided they believe in God and keep His Commandments. As it is today with Christians from every race and language becoming the Israelites of God. Isaiah 41:1-2, Revelation 5:9-10

 

[Straightshot]

"But from proven historical, archeological, linguistic and heraldic facts, it seems that a high proportion of the people in the Western nations have ethnic descent from Jacob. It is them, us, who have become Christian"

This sounds like the teaching of Armstrong's British/Israelism, or some spin off concoction of the same .... there is no truth to this ruse whatsoever

Israel is Israel [all 12 tribes] .... and the Gentiles are the Gentiles

.... and the Lord knows the difference

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

If you want to see it that way, fine. The result is the same: we Christians are the inheritors of the amazing promises of God to Israel.

Another fact is that after 4000 + years since Abraham, that is: 100 X 40 year generations, there is no one on earth who hasn't got some fraction of his DNA.

I assume you are a rapture believer? If so, you are forced to keep a separation between the Church, [gone to heaven] and Israel. [the Jews facing the Great Trib] This is a wrong and un-scriptural.
Note, I support my posts with scripture. I am happy to be corrected - with scripture, but not by opinion or speculation.

I'm not claiming nor disclaiming the rapture (it may be once in a person's lifetime or/and corperately, it's just something on the backburner) but what I question is your claim someone is forced to keep a separation when the rapture clearly involves certain ones from the old testament times as evidenced from the opened graves at His ascention from the grave

 

[Douggg]

Why then, was his son Rehoboam an Israelite? And not only an Israelite, but a king.

Well you make a good point. And something that should probably be directed to the Jews. It should be noted that Rehoboam was before Nehemiah and Ezra's time, which the Jews sent away their foreign wives and children by them.

As far as Judaism goes, which is the religion of the Jews, a person is not a Jew unless there mother is a Jew.

 

[Psalm3704]

Keras Keras keras!!! The one who continues to pull verses out of context. The one who thinks he's the only one who understands old testament prophecies. The one who uses them to pull a wool over other people's eyes.

Try reading the OP; 'Who is the true Israel of God' again. Luke 3:8

Did you not read all of Luke 3, the entire chapter? This is about John the Baptist calling others to repent. He wasn't talking to gentiles in the Jordan river. He's telling the Jews that being a descendant of Abraham is not enough for salvation and repentance is a requirement.

Luke 3:3-8 New King James Version (NKJV)
3 And he went into all the region around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, 4 as it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet, saying:

“The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make His paths straight.
5 Every valley shall be filled
And every mountain and hill brought low;
The crooked places shall be made straight
And the rough ways smooth;
6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.’"

7 Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.​

Psalms 37:29 The righteous will possess the Land and will live there forever.

Did you not read all of Psalm 37, the entire chapter? The land whom the righteous will possess is the earth, not the holyland. The descendants of Jacob inherits the holyland....and the earth as well.

Psalm 37:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
For evildoers shall be cut off;
But those who wait on the Lord,
They shall inherit the earth.

Psalm 37:11 New King James Version (NKJV)
But the meek shall inherit the earth,
And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Psalm 37:22 New King James Version (NKJV)
22 For those blessed by Him shall inherit the earth,
But those cursed by Him shall be cut off.​

Keras, care to show us anywhere in Psalm 37 it speaks of the land referring to Israel?

Psalm 37 not about the gentiles inheriting Israel.

Psalms 69:32-36 Those who serve Him will inherit Zion and those who love His Name will dwell therein.

Keras, Psalm 69 is about the Jewish people, not the gentiles. Do you not understand the things you read? Look at verses 35-36, it speaks of Zion and cities of Judah.

Psalm 69:35-36 New King James Version (NKJV)
35 For God will save Zion
And build the cities of Judah,
That they may dwell there and possess it.
36 Also, the descendants of His servants shall inherit it,
And those who love His name shall dwell in it.​

Keras, where is Zion at? Zion is in Israel. Who is Judah? He's a son of Jacob. Look at verse 36, who are the descendants of His servants: Jacob, Isaac and Abraham that God promised will inherit the land and dwell in it?

Psalm 69 is not about the gentiles inheriting Israel.

Isaiah 49:14-23...the Lord watches His Land......His righteous people go there, a vast multitude.....and none who look to Me will be disappointed.

Look at verse 14 Keras, it said Zion, it's talking about the Jews not the gentiles. Zion is Jerusalem.

Isaiah 49:14 New King James Version (NKJV)
But Zion said, “The Lord has forsaken me,
And my Lord has forgotten me.”​

Look at verse 19. What city and country will be utterly destroy during the tribulation Keras? Do you still not know it's Jerusalem and all of Israel?

What country will greatly expand in size after the tribulation? Do you still not know it's Israel?

And who's enemy will God eliminate during the second half of the tribulation that they will never again trouble Israel? Do you still not know it's Israel?

Isaiah 49:19 New King James Version (NKJV)
“For your waste and desolate places,
And the land of your destruction,
Will even now be too small for the inhabitants;
And those who swallowed you up will be far away.​

Keras, and look at the last verse of Isaiah 49. Who was Jacob? Was he a gentile? What group of people do you think this entire chapter is talking about?

Isaiah 49:26 New King James Version (NKJV)
I will feed those who oppress you with their own flesh,
And they shall be drunk with their own blood as with sweet wine.
All flesh shall know
That I, the Lord, am your Savior,
And your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.”​

Isaiah 49 not about the gentiles inheriting Israel.

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.

Again, it said the meek inherits the earth, not Israel.

Matthew 5 is not about the gentiles inheriting Israel.

Keras Keras keras!!! The one who continues to pull verses out of context. The one who thinks he's the only one who understands old testament....and new testament prophecies. The one who uses them to pull a wool over other people's eyes.







.






.

 

[John Hyperspace]

As I'm lead to understand it is something like this: Israel is an olive tree: Jeremiah 11:16, Romans 11:17. The seed of Abraham of which the Lord spoke isn't a fleshly seed, but a spiritual seed: a seed of faith: Romans 9:8. When Jesus came, He came to prune the olive tree of Israel, and He pruned off all of the branches that were not "of faith", and moreover, He took Gentile branches who were "of faith" and grafted them onto the single tree "of the faithful seed of Abraham": So Israel is still Israel, and the promises are to those "of faith" in Christ. So the Israel of God is synonymous with the church of God. That isn't to say Israel was replaced by the church but that Israel is the church, or, the faithful seed of Abraham. Galatians 3:29

In other words, the olive tree is the olive tree, but many of the branches have been broken off and replaced. But a person that understands God as speaking carnally to a carnal people hasn't yet understood that God is Spirit, and His words are spiritually discerned: 1 Corinthians 2:14

 

[John Hyperspace]

As far as Judaism goes, which is the religion of the Jews, a person is not a Jew unless there mother is a Jew.

That's not actually true; it depends upon the sect of Judaism. Much like Christianity, Judaism is very divided in doctrine. Some orthodox sects regard the father as the indicator, and not the mother.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Here's another verse out of context

Hebrews 8:8,13
“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.​

Make of it what you will

 

[keras]

Keras Keras keras!!! The one who continues to pull verses out of context. The one who thinks he's the only one who understands old testament....and new testament prophecies. The one who uses them to pull a wool over other people's eyes.

When I speak to groups, I need someone to introduce me. You are just perfect!

Keras, care to show us anywhere in Psalm 37 it speaks of the land referring to Israel?

I note you use the NKJV Bible version. It translates the Hebrew word 'eratz' as earth, but the REB, NIV, CJB, say: the land. And in the context - Land of Israel, is the more reasonable translation.
Psalms 69:36....those who love His Name will dwell there. Christians love His Name, Jews cover their ears when anyone mentions Jesus.

 

[keras]

"But from proven historical, archeological, linguistic and heraldic facts, it seems that a high proportion of the people in the Western nations have ethnic descent from Jacob. It is them, us, who have become Christian"
This sounds like the teaching of Armstrong's British/Israelism, or some spin off concoction of the same .... there is no truth to this ruse whatsoever

Israel is Israel [all 12 tribes] .... and the Gentiles are the Gentiles
.... and the Lord knows the difference

Typically for a rapture believer, facts are dismissed if they don't suit that fanciful idea. Do you even know any of the research done on peoples origins?
Clue number one: The Caucasian peoples came from the Caucasus region. The Assyrians exiled the 10 Northern tribes to that area.

Israel has lost it's identity. Even the Jews cannot really prove their descent and Jesus nullified their claim anyway. Matthew 21:43
You want to maintain a separation between Jews and the Church? Jesus refutes you: John 3:16 Everyone who has faith in Jesus.....is a Christian, Jews and Gentiles alike. The rest are the ungodly peoples.

The fact that we Christians ARE the seed of Abraham, spiritually by our faith, and probably physically by descent, makes us the inheritors of all the as yet, unfulfilled Promises of God to His people.