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Who is the true Israel of God?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by keras, Oct 29, 2016.

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  1. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    This question can be put as: Who are the legitimate heirs of God’s promises?

    The answer isn’t in those who claim to be descendants of Jacob, such as the citizens of the modern State of Israel, or the many people groups who assert they are the ‘lost tribes’, etc.

    The true Israelites of God are those individuals who meet the Covenant conditions, who by belief in God and in their moral and ethical behavior, prove they belong to Him.

    It was always possible for foreigners to join Israel, therefore parentage and actual descent is irrelevant. Leviticus 19:3-34, Isaiah 56:1-8. Jesus said: Other sheep I must gather….John 19:16 and the Apostles made it clear that it is only by righteousness and faith that anyone is counted into the House of Israel. Romans 9:6-9, Galatians 3:26-29, Ephesians 2:11-18

    So to determine who qualifies as an Israelite person of God, we know:

    1/ They cannot be determined by natural descent from Abraham, or more specifically, from Jacob. There are no proofs of ancestry extant today.
    2/ They cannot become Israelite by conversion to Judaism.
    3/ Any person can become an Israelite of God by faith in Him, obedience to His Laws and the acceptance of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. John 3:16-17

    Jesus is the ‘root and tree trunk’ of Israel. Paul said that the promises made to Abraham were to one Person and they are all ‘yes’ in Christ. Galatians 3:16, 2 Cor. 1:20

    So now all we Christians, in Christ as His friends and working with Him, are now the branches of the ‘olive tree’ of the true Israel. People from every tribe, race, nation and language. Romans 2:28-29, Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 66:18

    This truth that all righteous Christians are the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16, destroys the false ‘rapture to heaven’ theory. The prophesies about Judah, the Jewish people, are clear: only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 6:13, Luke 19:27 They have set up their own religion and refuse to acknowledge Jesus. Romans 10:1-4

    It will be the true, righteous Christian Church that will inherit the holy Land and they are the people who will display God’s glory and be His witnesses to the nations, in the last few years before Jesus Returns. Isaiah 66:18-21, Isaiah 49:8-13, Rev. 7:1-10
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
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  2. giftofGod2

    giftofGod2 Active Member

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    I beg to disagree with you. In the Old Testament, there were promises that, while we as believers in Christ can obtain them by faith, were given specifically to the descendants of Jacob.

    Even if there is no way of determining that you or I is a descendant of Jacob, it does not nullify that the promises were directed towards these descendants.

    Being in Christ, we can obtain the promises given to Israel, but we obtain them as wild olive branches graffed into a good olive tree.
     
  3. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    plus..... their mother being a Jew by blood.

    .
     
  4. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    If you want to see it that way, fine. The result is the same: we Christians are the inheritors of the amazing promises of God to Israel.
    Another fact is that after 4000 + years since Abraham, that is: 100 X 40 year generations, there is no one on earth who hasn't got some fraction of his DNA.
    I assume you are a rapture believer? If so, you are forced to keep a separation between the Church, [gone to heaven] and Israel. [the Jews facing the Great Trib] This is a wrong and un-scriptural.
    Note, I support my posts with scripture. I am happy to be corrected - with scripture, but not by opinion or speculation.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
  5. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    There is no documented proof of descent from the Patriarchs for anyone today. In the 8th century, a whole gentile people group; the Kazars, converted to Judaism. They had no genetic link to Judah and probably comprise many, if not most of the Jewish people today. Jesus refers to them in Revelation 2:9b.
     
  6. Psalm3704

    Psalm3704 And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

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    You're confusing the Israelites with the elects.






    .
     
  7. Another Lazarus

    Another Lazarus Old Newbie

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    the Meek will inherit the earth.


    May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH
     
  8. Straightshot

    Straightshot Member

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    This statement by the apostle Paul related to the "Israel of God" in Glaciations 6:16 was directed at those few of Israel who had accepted Jesus Christ as their Messiah and king

    The term "Israel of God" is found no other place in scripture

    This does not mean that the Gentiles have somehow become members of national Israel just because they have accepted Jesus Christ as savior

    National Israel is one thing, the "church" is another, this is evident throughout the scriptures from Genesis to Revelation

    Paul is contrasting the few Jewish converts with the majority of Israel who rejected their Messiah and King
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
  9. giftofGod2

    giftofGod2 Active Member

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  10. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

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    Can you prove that?
     
  11. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Did you mean; the Israelis with the Elect?
    One and the same. Every true, righteous believer is an elect Israelite of God.
    Wrong Straightshot. Another SS opinion that totally contradicts the facts.
    Paul's letter is to the Galatians, they are told that circumcision counts for nothing, they must become a new person in Christ. All who take this principle or their guide, peace and mercy be upon them; the Israel of God. Galatians 6:15-16
    Sure; the Jewish State of Israel, has nothing to do with the church. I never said it did. It is in God's eyes that every true believing person has become His Israel of God, still as individuals scattered around the world, but soon to be gathered into the holy Land. Ezekiel 34:11-31

    It seems that the Jews; in calling their nation 'Israel', have caused great confusion, they should be called the State of Judah, as ben Gurion originally intended. I see that change of name as being promoted by the author of lies and confusion, Satan; one of his very successful ploys.
     
  12. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    1 Thess 4:13-18 - describes the gathering of Christians at the Return of Jesus to the earth. As in Matthew 24:31
    1 Thess 5:1 - Says Jesus will come unexpectedly.
    1 Thess 5:9 - We Christians do have His salvation, and the godless will receive His retribution, but we will still have our faith tested. 1 Peter 4:12
    1 Cor 15:50-58 - describes the raising of all the dead at the Great White Throne judgement, that happens after the Millennium reign of Jesus.

    None of your quotes even hint at a rapture removal to heaven for anyone. This false idea isn't and never was God's plan for His people.
     
  13. Straightshot

    Straightshot Member

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    "It is in God's eyes that every true believing person has become His Israel of God"

    Not true and not scriptural at all

    A few of Israel are called the Israel of God, those of the Gentiles are never called the "Israel of God" in scripture

    There is no scripture that supports what you say

    Paul was speaking to the few converted Jews as the "Israel of God"

    He contrasts them with those of Judaism who rejected the Lord

    Galatians
    6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

    6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

    6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

    6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
     
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    There is nothing in the bible that says a fake set of Jews would return to the land of Israel and reform the country into one nation again, no longer the kingdom of the north and kingdom of the south. So the Jews over there are the real deal, because God does not make mistakes. Not only has God brought the Jews out of the nations to reform the nation, but Jerusalem is back in the hands of the Jews The parable of the fig tree that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24, the fig tree is not the church, but Jerusalem and it is back in the hands of the Jews.
     
  15. Psalm3704

    Psalm3704 And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

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    No Keras, they're not the same. There are the elects of Israel and the elects of the church. Every elect is a true Israelite in spirit but not every Israelite or Israeli is an elect.

    In the near future, at least 2/3 of the Israelis will die in the tribulation. The only surviving remnant of Israel are the elects. If God plans to destroy 2/3 of the Israelis and save a remnant who He considers His elect, how can the Israelis and the elects be the same?

    Zechariah 13:8 New King James Version (NKJV)
    And it shall come to pass in all the land,”
    Says the Lord,
    “That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die,
    But one–third shall be left in it:


    Matthew 24:22 New King James Version (NKJV)
    And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++

    Your argument in your OP is about land, who inherits the holyland as stated in quotes below.


    God spoke to Abraham numerous times and made several covenants with Abraham. Not one, several promises!

    What you're confusing is the difference between God's promise of land versus God's promise of blessings.

    The land of Israel God promised only to Abraham's descendants and no one else.

    Genesis 15:18 New King James Version (NKJV)
    On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:

    To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates—

    Genesis 35:12 New King James Version (NKJV)
    The land which I gave Abraham and Isaac I give to you; and to your descendants after you I give this land.


    The blessings God promised are for Abraham and through Jesus, the whole world.

    Genesis 12:1-3 New King James Version (NKJV)
    1 Now the Lord had said to Abram:
    “Get out of your country,
    From your family
    And from your father’s house,
    To a land that I will show you.
    2 I will make you a great nation;
    I will bless you
    And make your name great;
    And you shall be a blessing.
    3 I will bless those who bless you,
    And I will curse him who curses you;
    And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

    Galatians 3:14 King James Bible
    That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++

    The church doesn't inherit the land of Israel, we inherit the blessings God promised to Abraham and the world because of Jesus.

    After Christ returns, the holyland is divided amongst the 12 tribes. No land is given to the gentiles. Ezekiel 48:1-29.










    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
  16. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Time for you to read Romans 9:6-8, Galatians 3:26-29, Isaiah 56:1-8, 1 Peter 2:9-10 and many others that prove anyone can now become the people of God; His dedicated nation, His set apart people, namely: the Israelites of God.
    SS, you constantly make pronouncements that are in glaring error. I know why, because you must defend the rapture to heaven theory. That notion demands a separation between Israelites and the Church. Not true and not scriptural at all.
    The Jewish people in their present state of apostasy and atheism, are just another ungodly nation, only a remnant will be saved.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
  17. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Try reading the OP; 'Who is the true Israel of God' again. Luke 3:8
    Psalms 37:29 The righteous will possess the Land and will live there forever.
    Psalms 69:32-36 Those who serve Him will inherit Zion and those who love His Name will dwell therein.
    Isaiah 49:14-23...the Lord watches His Land......His righteous people go there, a vast multitude.....and none who look to Me will be disappointed.
    Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
  18. Straightshot

    Straightshot Member

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    "SS, you constantly make pronouncements that are in glaring error. I know why, because you must defend the rapture to heaven theory."


    I don't have to defend anything like you do .... I have the Word of the Lord on both matters

    The Lord Himself is a Jew and He still reserves a remnant for His future purposes .... the prophetic scriptures are repleat with this truth

    And He has promised to immortalize His true ecclesia just before He brings His wrath and judgment upon an intransigent and unbelieving world .... the only right thing to do

    Check your standing

    You can babble on about your Elam church doctrines that you have been taught, but you are on a shaky trip
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
  19. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    So, you are saying that if the church is not Israel - then there has to be a rapture to heaven?
     
  20. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    It is those who believe in a rapture to heaven, which isn't stated anywhere in the Bible, who must defend their stance.
    Jesus called Himself the Son of Man.
    The remnant of the tribe of Judah will join with all of the Israel of God, as we see in Revelation 7:1-9.
    If you don't provide the clear scripture to prove this statement, then all will know you are a false teacher.
    I go to an Elim church for the fellowship and worship. They know nothing about Bible prophecy, ignorant; just like most on the forums.
     
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