WHO IS GOD'S TRUE CHURCH ACCORDING TO GOD'S WORD?

[LoveGodsWord]

The Holy Spirit dwells in all believers. All you need to know to become a believer is Jesus died for your sins at calvary, repent of that sin and ask Christ into your life as Lord and saviour of it. A minister can tell you that in a church service without having to firstly read the ten commandments to you

Then again you cannot know what sin is if you have no knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4.

 

[Karola]

SDA experience of Christianity is a world away from my experience, it truly is. I did not have to firstly read the law written in ink to become conscious of sin in my life, it is a world I have not experienced and do not undertsand

 

[Saint Steven]

SDA members believe the fourth commandment, as written is written in the mind and placed on the heart of all believers. But they also believe you can sin in ignorance of it. Hence:
Through the law you may or may not become conscious of sin

This raises an interesting point.

We all grew up in the church with a knowledge of the Ten Commandments. They were presented as if they were God's law for us to follow. So, who can say they had no knowledge of the Sabbath commandment? But how was it applied? It was applied to Sunday. We were told that we should not engage in any worldly activities on that day. It was a day set apart for God.

Here in America, where I live, we even had civil laws that forbid businesses to be open on Sunday in order to honor the Sabbath. We have finally seen the last of that with laws finally changing to now allow even liquor stores to do business on Sunday. This has not been allowed in the past for over 100 years.

Therefore, how anyone raised in the church can say they are not aware of the TCs is beyond me. There is also confusion over two more of the TCs, in terms of what they mean.

Not taking the Lord's name in vain, has been redefined to mean not using the word "God" in a sentence that is not glorifying to him. Which I would agree is not something we should do, but that commandment has to do with not using God's name to make a vow you had no intention of keeping. So, when I hear someone say, "I swear to God..." that such and so is true, that is a mild violation of the commandment. (assuming we are under the law)

The third one has to do with lying. The do not bear false witness commandment is taken to refer to lying, when it does not. Again, lying is wrong, but the commandment does not address that. The commandment is about giving false testimony against someone.

Sorry for such a long post. I have much to say on this subject. But it may be off-topic.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I was not sinning in ignorance, I knew I was sinning before I understood what the written words of thev commandment entailed. Why is that so very hard for you to understand?

Maybe your posts are confusing. Please read this again as it sounds like a process of learning sin over time to me, the way I read it...

Karola wrote: As a child, I wondered why thou shalt not covet was one of the ten commandments. It didn't seem as important as the rest to me, but then, in those days I reasoned it only referred to material goods, such as desiring/coveting your neighbours car or house for example. Though christians should not do that, it seemed almost insignificant compared to the other commandments. Anyway once I reached puberty, I instinctively knew lust/dwelling on impure thoughts was sin, but I still did not understand the tenth commandment any better by reading what was written in ink in the bible. But instinctively I did know what the tenth commandment truly required within my heart and mind. I did not know by reading what was written in ink concerning it. So the Holy Spirit, by writing the law in my heart and mind, did not need me to firstly read what was written in ink to understand what that law entailed

1. You started reading God's WORD but did not understand why coveting was a sin.
2. Later once you reached puberty you knew lust and impure thoughts was sin but still did not understand coveting fully until the Holy Spirit revealed it do you

Seems this was a process of growing in the knowledge of God's WORD being lead be God's Spirit being your guide and teacher through his Word.

That is the way I have interpretated what you have posted. Just sharing so you understand why.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

SDA experience of Christianity is a world away from my experience, it truly is. I did not have to firstly read the law written in ink to become conscious of sin in my life, it is a world I have not experienced and do not undertsand

While I appreciate your sharing I do not see this in what you have posted in discribing your own experience of learning God's WORD at an early age and your example of coveting and learning God's WORD through his Spirit as outlined in the post above this one.

 

[Karola]

This raises an interesting point.

We all grew up in the church with a knowledge of the Ten Commandments. They were presented as if they were God's law for us to follow. So, who can say they had no knowledge of the Sabbath commandment? But how was it applied? It was applied to Sunday. We were told that we should not engage in any worldly activities on that day. It was a day set apart for God.

Here in America, where I live, we even had civil laws that forbid businesses to be open on Sunday in order to honor the Sabbath. We have finally seen the last of that with laws finally changing to now allow even liquor stores to do business on Sunday. This has not been allowed in the past for over 100 years.

Therefore, how anyone raised in the church can say they are not aware of the TCs is beyond me. There is also confusion over two more of the TCs, in terms of what they mean.

Not taking the Lord's name in vain, has been redefined to mean not using the word "God" in a sentence that is not glorifying to him. Which I would agree is not something we should do, but that commandment has to do with not using God's name to make a vow you had no intention of keeping. So, when I hear someone say, "I swear to God..." that such and so is true, that is a mild violation of the commandment. (assuming we are under the law)

The third one has to do with lying. The do not bear false witness commandment is taken to refer to lying, when it does not. Again, lying is wrong, but the commandment does not address that. The commandment is about giving false testimony against someone.

Sorry for such a long post. I have much to say on this subject. But it may be off-topic.

In my view, the only sure way to know which law God wants you to follow comes from within, look at all the differing views of those who look to the written code as to which laws must be followed. I have seen people, who relied on reading the law written in ink to understand what sin is, laughingly take God's name in vain with no consiousness whatsoever they commit sin by doing so, and yet, they insisted the Ten Commandments must be obeyed

 

[Karola]

While I appreciate your sharing I do not see this in what you have posted in discribing your own experience of learning God's WORD at an early age and your example of coveting and learning God's WORD through his Spirit mas outlined in the post above this one.

I will just respond to this, but will not continue a debate with you. As a child, I wondered why thou shalt not covet was one of the ten commandments. It didn't seem as important as the rest to me, but then, in those days I reasoned it only referred to material goods, such as desiring/coveting your neighbours car or house for example. Though christians should not do that, it seemed almost insignificant compared to the other commandments.
Anyway once I reached puberty, I instinctively knew lust/dwelling on impure thoughts was sin, but I still did not understand the tenth commandment any better by reading what was written in ink in the bible. But instinctively I did know what the tenth commandment truly required within my heart and mind. I did not know by reading what was written in ink concerning it. So the Holy Spirit, by writing the law in my heart and mind, did not need me to firstly read what was written in ink to understand what that law entailed

 

[LoveGodsWord]

This raises an interesting point.

We all grew up in the church with a knowledge of the Ten Commandments. They were presented as if they were God's law for us to follow. So, who can say they had no knowledge of the Sabbath commandment? But how was it applied? It was applied to Sunday. We were told that we should not engage in any worldly activities on that day. It was a day set apart for God.

Here in America, where I live, we even had civil laws that forbid businesses to be open on Sunday in order to honor the Sabbath. We have finally seen the last of that with laws finally changing to now allow even liquor stores to do business on Sunday. This has not been allowed in the past for over 100 years.

Therefore, how anyone raised in the church can say they are not aware of the TCs is beyond me. There is also confusion over two more of the TCs, in terms of what they mean.

Not taking the Lord's name in vain, has been redefined to mean not using the word "God" in a sentence that is not glorifying to him. Which I would agree is not something we should do, but that commandment has to do with not using God's name to make a vow you had no intention of keeping. So, when I hear someone say, "I swear to God..." that such and so is true, that is a mild violation of the commandment. (assuming we are under the law)

The third one has to do with lying. The do not bear false witness commandment is taken to refer to lying, when it does not. Again, lying is wrong, but the commandment does not address that. The commandment is about giving false testimony against someone.

Sorry for such a long post. I have much to say on this subject. But it may be off-topic.

You know Steve, those Sunday laws are still on the law books in most states in the US. They are all still there and laws only today they are dormant and not enforced. But they can be re-opened at any time. They are called the BLUE LAWS * You can read about them here wiki CLICK ME

 

[Karola]

Maybe your posts are confusing. Please read this again as it sounds like a process of learning sin over time to me, the way I read it...


1. You started reading God's WORD but did not understand why coveting was a sin.
2. Latter once you reached puberty you knew lust and impure thoughts was sin but still did not understand coveting fully until the Holy Spirit revealed it do you

Seems this was a process of growing in the knowledge of God's WORD being lead be God's Spirit being your guide and teacher through his Word.

That is the way I have interpretated what you have posted. Just sharing so you understand why.

It seems that I understood what breaking the tenth commandment entailed, concerning lust and dwelling on impure thoughts, before I understood that by reading what is written in ink.
You are a smart guy, if you claim now not to understand what I have plainly written, I will leave you with the last word on it, something would then be badly wrong

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I will just respond to this, but will not continue a debate with you. As a child, I wondered why thou shalt not covet was one of the ten commandments. It didn't seem as important as the rest to me, but then, in those days I reasoned it only referred to material goods, such as desiring/coveting your neighbours car or house for example. Though christians should not do that, it seemed almost insignificant compared to the other commandments.
Anyway once I reached puberty, I instinctively knew lust/dwelling on impure thoughts was sin, but I still did not understand the tenth commandment any better by reading what was written in ink in the bible. But instinctively I did know what the tenth commandment truly required within my heart and mind. I did not know by reading what was written in ink concerning it. So the Holy Spirit, by writing the law in my heart and mind, did not need me to firstly read what was written in ink to understand what that law entailed

Sorry sister what I get out of what you posted was that you started reading God's WORD at an early age and you progressively lean't more about its meaning as you grew older and God guided you with his Spirit. God's Spirit does not work outside of God's WORD. You read God's WORD and learnt it and God's Spirit guided you and taught you through God's WORD.

 

[Karola]

Sorry sister what I get out of what you posted was that you started reading God's WORD at an early age and you progressively lean't more about its meaning as you grew older and God guided you with his Spirit. God's Spirit does not work outside of God's WORD. You read God's WORD and learnt it and God's Spirit guided you and taught you through God's WORD.

Everyone else will clearly understand what I mean, I am sure of that, sadly, you are struggling with it, so let us leave it there

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Everyone else will clearly understand what I mean, I am sure of that, sadly, you are struggling with it, so let us leave it there

I am not sure but I will say this. I genuinely love you as a sister in the Lord. I only share God's WORD with you in love and pray that God's Spirit will guide and lead you through his Word. I say this and share this with you in all honesty and love in the Lord. I pray you may consider the scriptures we have shared together today. I have enjoyed my discussion with you. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

God bless.

 

[Karola]

Do you need to read the law written in ink in the bible to know what the law is you should follow and only then is it written in your heart? Not according to one sda member in the thread sda, nor according to Paul:
Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts Rom2:14&15

 

[Saint Steven]

In my view, the only sure way to know which law God wants you to follow comes from within, look at all the differing views of those who look to the written code as to which laws must be followed. I have seen people, who relied on reading the law written in ink to understand what sin is, laughingly take God's name in vain with no consiousness whatsoever they commit sin by doing so, and yet, they insisted the Ten Commandments must be obeyed

On what basis does a person "commit sin" by taking "God's name in vain" as defined as using the word "God" in a sentence that does not glorify Him?

We have been so indoctrinated about this. There is a lot of confusion in the church about this.

- Sunday is not the Sabbath
- Lying is not prohibited by the TCs, bearing false testimony is.
- Neither is using the word "God" in a sentence that does not glorify Him, but making a dishonest vow using God's name as binding authority is.

 

[Karola]

On what basis does a person "commit sin" by taking "God's name in vain" as defined as using the word "God" in a sentence that does not glorify Him?

We have been so indoctrinated about this. There is a lot of confusion in the church about this.

- Sunday is not the Sabbath
- Lying is not prohibited by the TCs, bearing false testimony is.
- Neither is using the word "God" in a sentence that does not glorify Him, but making a dishonest vow using God's name as binding authority is.

I heard sda members continually laughing as they stated 'o m g' repeatedly and irreverently. In my view, and most others, that is taking the Lords name in vain. When I mentioned it to an sda minister(I did not tell him why I was asking) he thought about it for a moment, then agreed it was taking the Lords name in vain

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Do you need to read the law written in ink in the bible to know what that law is? Not according to one sda member in the thread sda, nor according to Paul:
Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts Rom2:14&15

I know these scriptures quite well. You need to add the context first however and read them in light of both ROMANS 2 and ROMANS 3. The context scriptures here is that both JEWS and GENTILES are all under sin there is none rightoeus no not one. The context scriptures are..

ROMAN 2:11-13
[11], For there is no respect of persons with God.
[12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

PAUL goes on to make this clearer in ROMANS 3

ROMANS 3:19-20
[19], Now we know that whatsoever things the law says, it says to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Paul is saying in these two chapter that none are righteous 3v10 This includes both JEW and GENTILE 3v9.

Now coming back to ROMANS 2:14-15
[14], For when the Gentiles, who have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
[15], Who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.

Paul is using the example of how God's law is kept and that is having the law written in the heart through love. It is not saying that God's LAW does not give us a knowledge of what sin is and it does not say that Gentiles obey God's LAW without God's WORD because PAUL says all have sinned all are guity before God and God's LAW gives us a knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:9-10; 19-20 and as the scriptures that show the context say...

ROMAN 2:11-13
[11], For there is no respect of persons with God.
[12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Hope this is helpful

 

[Karola]

I know these scriptures quite well. You need to add the context first however and read them in light of both ROMANS 2 and ROMANS 3. The context scriptures here is that both JEWS and GENTILES are all under sin there is none rightoeus no not one. The context scriptures are..

ROMAN 2:11-13
[11], For there is no respect of persons with God.
[12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

PAUL goes on to make this clearer in ROMANS 3

ROMANS 3:19-20
[19], Now we know that whatsoever things the law says, it says to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Paul is saying in these two chapter that none are righteous 3v10 This includes both JEW and GENTILE 3v9.

Now coming back to ROMANS 2:14-15
[14], For when the Gentiles, who have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
[15], Who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.

Paul is using the example of how God's law is kept and that is having the law written in the heart through love. It is not saying that God's LAW does not give us a knowledge of what sin is and it does not say that Gentiles obey God's LAW without God's WORD because PAUL says all have sinned all are guity before God and God's LAW gives us a knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:9-10; 19-20 and as the scriptures that show the context say...

ROMAN 2:11-13
[11], For there is no respect of persons with God.
[12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Hope this is helpful

I guess if one can do gymnastics with the plainly written word all can

 

[Saint Steven]

You know Steve, those Sunday laws are still on the law books in most states in the US. They are all still there and laws only today they are dormant and not enforced. But they can be re-opened at any time. They are called the BLUE LAWS * You can read about them here wiki CLICK ME

FYI
As of February 2018, we have seen the end of Sunday Blue Laws. The last holdout was the liquor industry.

Incidentally, this was not good for the liquor industry. They now have higher weekly expenses with nothing to show in increased sales revenue. They are paying for an extra day with the lights on and staff to pay. So, any victory on that front was purely on the principle, not on the economy.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

FYI
As of February 2018, we have seen the end of Sunday Blue Laws. The last holdout was the liquor industry.

Incidentally, this was not good for the liquor industry. They now have higher weekly expenses with nothing to show in increased sales revenue. They are paying for an extra day with the lights on and staff to pay. So, any victory on that front was purely on the principle, not on the economy.

Thanks Steve, I know they are not enacted in many states any more. However my point was only that they are still on the books ready to be enacted if need be. Their is no requirement for new laws to be passed.

 

[Saint Steven]

I heard sda members continually laughing as they stated 'o m g' repeatedly and irreverently. In my view, and most others, that is taking the Lords name in vain. When I mentioned it to an sda minister(I did not tell him why I was asking) he thought about it for a moment, then agreed it was taking the Lords name in vain

I appreciate your posts, but you are using hearsay as if it is factual. The words of one SDA member does not represent the whole SDA church. That is why I had never heard of the things you were sharing. They are not common knowledge. Even LGW agreed.