Who goes to hell?

After reading this thread, I've come to the conclusion that we all are doomed.
Every one sins.

Heaven wasn't made for sinners.

old weatherd cross said:

After reading this thread, I've come to the conclusion that we all are doomed.
Every one sins.

Heaven wasn't made for sinners.

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Heaven" was not "made" at all... "Heaven" is the ETERNAL dwelling (within and without) of GOD... who has no beginning or end... and besides...

"Heaven" is not the objective, the objective is the RETURN to where we (all) embarked upon this journey upon the earth (into this far country) which ends in DEATH -- Luke 15:11-32 -- but in RESURRECTION, ...RESUMES the ETERNAL state from which we (all) left! Now having the DIVINE KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL

And as far as all of us being "doomed"... I think you need to do a little more research concerning the PURPOSES of God, bro...

He is about sharing His KNOWLEDGE (good and evil), with ALL His Sons (US) which are partaking in that LIVING event!

PEACE


...willieH

old weatherd cross said:

After reading this thread, I've come to the conclusion that we all are doomed.
Every one sins.

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We are all doomed to die one day. However, we can receive eternal life from Jesus Christ in the resurrection on the last day.

old weatherd cross said:

After reading this thread, I've come to the conclusion that we all are doomed.
Every one sins.

Heaven wasn't made for sinners.

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The Pope said that Hell is a mental state of mind...

Which pope? Did Protestants finally set a pope up for themselves?

Cause you certainly aren't talking about the Catholic Pope.


"Jesus came to tell us that he wants us all in heaven and that hell, of which so little is said in our time, exists and is eternal for those who close their hearts to his love"

- Pope Benedict XVI, March 25, 2007

Huram Abi said:

"Jesus came to tell us that he wants us all in heaven and that hell, of which so little is said in our time, exists and is eternal for those who close their hearts to his love"

- Pope Benedict XVI, March 25, 2007

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HELL is really not even a VALID translation of SHEOL, HADES, TARTARUS and GEHENNA...

SHEOL = GRAVE
HADES = GRAVE
TARTARUS = GRAVE
GEHENNA = an actual place just outside JERUSALEM, where GARBAGE, and SHAME were consumed -- (something CONSUMED, no longer "is")

and beside that...

The NUMBER of times that these words appear in the WORD of GOD, was GOD's decision -- 2 Tim 3:16 -- and that there is "so little "said (about them) in our time", ...happens to be a direct WORK of GOD -- Eph 1:11 -- as,

He IS LOVE -- 1 John 4:8 -- and who IS ...WORKING ...ALL ...THINGS, one of which IS the CASTING OUT of FEAR -- 1 John 3:18 -- (without doubt, ...HELL is the MOST FEARED teaching of them ALL!) Open your eyes, bro!

Where is the COMMAND/INSTRUCTION, ...to even "MENTION" HELL, at ALL, ...Huram?

In saying this, you suggest that WE are the ones which determine our own destinies? ...the WORD does not support this notion at all! ...To name just a FEW that OPPOSE your "suggestion" ----> Prov 16:1, 9 -- Prov 21:1 -- Prov 20:24 -- Jer 24:7 -- Jer 11:23 -- Heb 12:2 -- Eph 1:11 -- Eph 2:8-10

Where is that the "pope stated" (in your above quote), ...stated in the Bible?

What any "POPE" (who IS a man and who HAS SINNED) has to say, are still words proceeding from a SINFUL MAN -- Rom 3:23

If his words cannot be noted as aligned with what IS WRITTEN in the WORD of GOD... then they must be disregarded, pope or no pope...

Please show us where, these words (you quote) of "pope benedict" are found ALIGNED with what IS WRITTEN in the WORD of GOD... and if you are successful, then they might have some creedence, dependent upon whether they are actually aligned with Scripture, ...or just EMBELLISH or DETRACT from what IS WRITTEN...

In this moment they appear to be ADDITIONS to what IS WRITTEN... and until you can show them to be otherwise, then they should be IGNORED!

Also you note that JESUS "wants us in heaven"... I would like to see where THAT is STATED in what IS WRITTEN in the WORD of YHVH God!

How can you even consider that CHRIST who DIED for ALL -- 1 Tim 2:6 --will accept any LESS than ALL for His sacrifice?

If CHRIST's sacrifice were just for those who "make the right decision", or that "accept Him"... then it would be so stated in the WORD...

Well, what you suggest, is NOT, "so stated"!

What IS stated... ...and is GOOD NEWS/GOSPEL, ...is that:

(1) His sacrifice was for the UNGODLY (which is ALL) -- Rom 5:6 -- and,
(2) His sacrifice was for ALL -- 1 Tim 2:6 -- and,
(3) His sacrifice was for those who were LOST (which is ALL) -- Luke 19:10

You (as do many -- Matt 7:22-23), ...attempt to give ULTIMATE POWER to MAN's "DESIRES", and that this UNBIBLICAL, ..."ULTIMATE POWER" thereby, ...NEGATES... the POWER and DESIRES, of YHVH God, and HIS CHRIST!

I ain't buyin' it!


Waitin' onya...


PEACE...


...willieH

I never said if I agreed with what he said, I'm just showing what the pope actually said regarding hell.

Whatever issue you have with what he said, you'll have to take up with the Pope.

Huram Abi said:

I never said if I agreed with what he said, I'm just showing what the pope actually said regarding hell.

Whatever issue you have with what he said, you'll have to take up with the Pope.

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...thanks for the chuckle... and I am happy for you that you do not "agree" with the "pope"

I could care less what the "pope" says. He is just another man which has SINNED... ...and is IN NEED of SALVATION...

PEACE...

...willieH

WillieH said:

HELL is really not even a VALID translation of SHEOL, HADES, TARTARUS and GEHENNA...

SHEOL = GRAVE
HADES = GRAVE
TARTARUS = GRAVE
GEHENNA = an actual place just outside JERUSALEM, where GARBAGE, and SHAME were consumed -- (something CONSUMED, no longer "is")
...willieH

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WoW! Sometimes you amaze me!

Originally Posted by WillieH

WillieH said:

HELL is really not even a VALID translation of SHEOL, HADES, TARTARUS and GEHENNA...

SHEOL = GRAVE
HADES = GRAVE
TARTARUS = GRAVE
GEHENNA = an actual place just outside JERUSALEM, where GARBAGE, and SHAME were consumed -- (something CONSUMED, no longer "is")

and beside that...

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Hell is also a town in Michigan. Someday I hope to ride my motorcycle to Hell and back.

Timothew said:

Hell is also a town in Michigan. Someday I hope to ride my motorcycle to Hell and back.

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If you do bro, it will be the ONLY "HELL" you (or anyone else) shall ever visit!

PEACE...

...willieH

jrog said:

Originally Posted by WillieH

HELL is really not even a VALID translation of SHEOL, HADES, TARTARUS and GEHENNA...

SHEOL = GRAVE
HADES = GRAVE
TARTARUS = GRAVE
GEHENNA = an actual place just outside JERUSALEM, where GARBAGE, and SHAME were consumed -- (something CONSUMED, no longer "is")
...willieH





Amen, finally some posts on this subject with the truth!....praise you
Lord, there is hope....
​

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He is worthy of as much praise as we can possibly muster brother!

GOD is LOVE -- 1 John 4:8 -- and LOVE is about the CASTING OUT of FEAR! ("Hell" being at the TOP of the "fear list") -- 1 John 4:18 -- and LOVE ...NEVER FAILS -- 1 Cor 13:8


PRAISE ---> LOVE

PEACE...

...willieH

old weatherd cross said:

After reading this thread, I've come to the conclusion that we all are doomed.
Every one sins.

Heaven wasn't made for sinners.

Click to expand...

You're right everybody sins, and we're not going to heaven anyway, because only the 144,000 are going and that isn't us. But what makes me go "Really? Wow." when people be saying i know I'm going to heaven when i die, or I'm not going to hell, because the ones that wasn't chosen to come back on earth are all going to hell. (Hell mean grave, not fiery place underground).

Rennay93 said:

You're right everybody sins, and we're not going to heaven anyway, because only the 144,000 are going and that isn't us. But what makes me go "Really? Wow." when people be saying i know I'm going to heaven when i die, or I'm not going to hell, because the ones that wasn't chosen to come back on earth are all going to hell. (Hell mean grave, not fiery place underground).

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Originally Posted by old weatherd cross

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After reading this thread, I've come to the conclusion that we all are doomed.Every one sins.Heaven wasn't made for sinners.

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UNQUOTE
My dear friend be awake and read:
Titus 3:5-6 (GW)
5 he saved us, but not because of anything we had done to gain his approval. Instead, because of his mercy he saved us through the washing in which the Holy Spirit gives us new birth and renewal.
6 God poured a generous amount of the Spirit on us through Jesus Christ our Savior.

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave himself for it, (26) that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Unless he died, for without the death of the testator, there is no Covenant and no recipient for the blessings! There could be no New Covenant, because the Spirit could not be given.

1 Timothy 1:15-16 (GW)
15 This is a statement that can be trusted and deserves complete acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, and I am the foremost sinner.
16 However, I was treated with mercy so that Christ Jesus could use me, the foremost sinner, to demonstrate his patience. This patience serves as an example for those who would believe in him and live forever.

1 Peter 4:18-19 (GW)
18 If it's hard for the person who has God's approval to be saved, what will happen to the godless sinner?
19 Those who suffer because that is God's will for them must entrust themselves to a faithful creator and continue to do what is good.

2 Timothy 1:9 (GW)
9 God saved us and called us to be holy, not because of what we had done, but because of his own plan and kindness. Before the world began, God planned that Christ Jesus would show us God's kindness.

I checked "Other". According to the Norse originators of the term Hell, it is the realm ruled by the goddess Hell, daughter of Loki also called Nifleheim, and is the abode of the unvalorous dead, who did not merit Valhalla. Why that Pagan term and many others are used in popular English bible translations is unfortunate as has been pointed out since it covers more relevant terms like sheol - abode of the dead.

From the perspective of the Yahweh's Scriptures (Torah, Prophets, Psalms, Messiyah's words), who goes to "hell" broadly, could mean most broadly those whose souls perish without associating with God's Spirit. More narrowly, it could also mean those who merit the "Greater (eternal) Condemnation", whose souls do not become lifeless, but are associated with a spiritual entity in opposition to God and are like those spirits eternally imprisoned in a diminished state of conscience torment.

I suspect that the majority of people attain not eternal torment, but death of their soul or destruction. Consider the following passage:

[FONT=&quot]“For then[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (gar) this (houtos) is (eimi – was and will be, exists as) the Torah/Law (nomos – prescriptions for living, statutes, ordinances, and duties as written and established) and the Prophets (prophetes – those who spoke for God): enter (eiserchomai – start with and experience the first step in the journey) through (dia – by the way and means of) the (ho) narrow (stenos – exacting and specific requirement) gate (pyle – doorway, portal, and entrance) because (hoti) the gate (pyle – doorway, portal, and entrance) is wide (platys – crafted and molded to be broad, expansive, open, and unreliable) and path (hodos – road, traveled way of life, journey, and route) is broad (eurychoros – wide open, ample, spacious, existing as a roomy realm) which leads away (apago – which deceives and influences someone to go astray) to the point of (eis – toward) destruction and perishing (apoleia – wastefully and needlessly destroying, squandering, eliminating from existence, and annihilating something valuable), and most (pleistos – a very great number, the vast preponderance, serving as the superlative of polus, many) are those (eimi – who exist) entering and experiencing (eiserchomai – starting the first step in their journey) through (dia – by way of and on account of) it (autos).” (Mattityahu/ Matthew 7:12-13) “The(ho) gate(pyle – doorway, portal, and entrance) is narrow (stenos – exacting and specific) and the path (hodos – road, traveled way of life, journey, and route) goes against the crowd (thlibo – is compressed, restricted, and narrow) which leads to life (zoe), and few (oligos) discover, learn about, attain, and experience (heuriskomai) it." (Mattityahu/Matthew 7:14)
[/FONT]
So Messiyah indicates that the gate which leads to life is unpopular and is found by few and connects this to the Torah and Prophets, while the popular way leads to "apoleia" - destruction and perishing, not to eternal. This is also consistent with being condemned already as a souls default state. Elsewhere He does describe a "Greater Condemnation", "which would be better than not to have been born" than to endure, which does speak of torment, but this appears to be a less frequent outcome, and was spoken of for those preventing other souls from knowing and relating to God's Spirit.

Respectfully,

-Yada Yah

truthseeker32 said:

Just out of curiosity

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Not me

Everybody else...up to God.

Yada Yah said:

I checked "Other". According to the Norse originators of the term Hell, it is the realm ruled by the goddess Hell, daughter of Loki also called Nifleheim, and is the abode of the unvalorous dead, who did not merit Valhalla. Why that Pagan term and many others are used in popular English bible translations is unfortunate as has been pointed out since it covers more relevant terms like sheol - abode of the dead.

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This in itself is a good reason to AVOID the term "hell"... as it is of PAGAN origins... CHRIST would never incorporate terminologies ESPECIALLY of such questionable and less than pure origin.

MEN, laying their hand to the ORIGINAL languages, are they which have EMPLOYED this term... and it has been EXITING the translation of the WORD, ever since. If you care to investigate this "exodus" of this AWFUL and PERVERTED and certainly UNLOVING term (HELL)... have at it:

Hell is Leaving the Bible Forever</b></font>

Yada Yah said:

From the perspective of the Yahweh's Scriptures (Torah, Prophets, Psalms, Messiyah's words), who goes to "hell" broadly, could mean most broadly those whose souls perish without associating with God's Spirit. More narrowly, it could also mean those who merit the "Greater (eternal) Condemnation", whose souls do not become lifeless, but are associated with a spiritual entity in opposition to God and are like those spirits eternally imprisoned in a diminished state of conscience torment.

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Sounds like you are somewhat unconvinced/unsure of your observations,
I am not:

Also, ALL Judgment is given to CHRIST, who is UNCHANGING and who IS/WAS SENT to NOT CONDEMN.

CONDEMNATION is NOT a DIVINE element... as both the SENDER of CHRIST (YHVH) and CHRIST Himself, both of which are UNCHANGING... do NOT "CONDEMN" -- John 8:11 -- John 3:16-17

There are NO elements of "CONDEMNATION", nor "degrees" of ("greater") CONDEMNATION in the JUDGMENT of CHRIST... for He is UNCHANGING...

For Him to CONDEMN would mean that both the "SENDER" of Him (YHVH God) as well as His OWN ETERNAL position concerning CONDEMNATION -- John 8:11 -- has indeed CHANGED which demotes -- Mal 3:6 -- Heb 13:8 -- to being UNTRUTHFUL.

GOD is WITHOUT RESPECT (partiality) of PERSONS -- Acts 10:34 (and 9 others) -- and in HIS WORD, He clearly notes that PARTIALITY is NOT "GOOD" -- Prov 28:21 --

GOD would NOT "do" anything which could be considered (BY HIMSELF) as "NOT GOOD"...

CHRIST's forgiveness which did NOT (though He had the "RIGHT" to) CONDEMN" the ADULTRESS -- John 8:11 -- therefore ANY "condemnation" of another person which is "guilty of SIN", would DEFINITELY displace (change) both HIS NON-administration of CONDEMNATION in her situation (which He was SENT NOT to do -- John 3:17 -- by YHVH God)... by the ADMINISTRATION of it to others.

Sorry, ...I Don't buy it!

This also notes that the ETERNAL POSITION of YHVH God concerning "CONDEMNATION" is to NOT CONDEMN anyone... as the Messiah's position was, in UNCHANGING ETERNAL terms... those "terms" being NON-CONDEMNING, which were in place, ...long before He appeared on the earth.

CHRISTIANITY in general has PERVERTED the position of YHVH GOD and CHRIST concerning SINNERS... and inserted (always aside from themselves) potential CONDEMNATION for others, where said CONDEMNATION was avoided in their own situation (due to NOTHING they did which enabled them to AVOID it).

Yada Yah said:

I suspect that the majority of people attain not eternal torment, but death of their soul or destruction. Consider the following passage:

[FONT=&quot]&#8220;For then[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (gar) this (houtos) is (eimi &#8211; was and will be, exists as) the Torah/Law (nomos &#8211; prescriptions for living, statutes, ordinances, and duties as written and established) and the Prophets (prophetes &#8211; those who spoke for God): enter (eiserchomai &#8211; start with and experience the first step in the journey) through (dia &#8211; by the way and means of) the (ho) narrow (stenos &#8211; exacting and specific requirement) gate (pyle &#8211; doorway, portal, and entrance) because (hoti) the gate (pyle &#8211; doorway, portal, and entrance) is wide (platys &#8211; crafted and molded to be broad, expansive, open, and unreliable) and path (hodos &#8211; road, traveled way of life, journey, and route) is broad (eurychoros &#8211; wide open, ample, spacious, existing as a roomy realm) which leads away (apago &#8211; which deceives and influences someone to go astray) to the point of (eis &#8211; toward) destruction and perishing (apoleia &#8211; wastefully and needlessly destroying, squandering, eliminating from existence, and annihilating something valuable), and most (pleistos &#8211; a very great number, the vast preponderance, serving as the superlative of polus, many) are those (eimi &#8211; who exist) entering and experiencing (eiserchomai &#8211; starting the first step in their journey) through (dia &#8211; by way of and on account of) it (autos).&#8221; (Mattityahu/ Matthew 7:12-13) &#8220;The(ho) gate(pyle &#8211; doorway, portal, and entrance) is narrow (stenos &#8211; exacting and specific) and the path (hodos &#8211; road, traveled way of life, journey, and route) goes against the crowd (thlibo &#8211; is compressed, restricted, and narrow) which leads to life (zoe), and few (oligos) discover, learn about, attain, and experience (heuriskomai) it." (Mattityahu/Matthew 7:14) [/FONT]

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It is pertinent to note that the word APOLEIA is also found in -- Rom 9:22 -- which notes a PURPOSED "fitting" (prepared) of DESTRUCTION for vessels (made BY HIM, of the SAME LUMP - vs 22) - unto DISHONOR (sinFULness) that He might MAKE KNOWN the RICHES of GLORY on the VESSELS of MERCY (sinLESSness) before prepared (fitted) unto GLORY (HONOR).

It is also pertinent that the PARENT term to APOLEIA - #G684 (from which APOLEIA is derived) ---> APOLLUMI - #G622 -- also means DESTRUCTION, and is the very term translated "LOST" in the Parable of the LOST/DESTROYED, coin, sheep and SON in -- Luke 15

In the eyes of YHVH, any one (all men) which is "LOST", is in the observation of YHVH as "DESTROYED".

So the SHEPHERD of GOD, "undestroys" or RESCUES the DESTROYED sheep, coin and SON, which were "LOST" and separated from YHVH to a "FOUND/RESTORED" condition. -- Col 1:20

Yada Yah said:

So Messiyah indicates that the gate which leads to life is unpopular and is found by few and connects this to the Torah and Prophets, while the popular way leads to "apoleia" - destruction and perishing, not to eternal. This is also consistent with being condemned already as a souls default state. Elsewhere He does describe a "Greater Condemnation", "which would be better than not to have been born" than to endure, which does speak of torment, but this appears to be a less frequent outcome, and was spoken of for those preventing other souls from knowing and relating to God's Spirit.

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Interesting that you brought up this Scripture to support DESTRUCTION, TORMENT, and "GREATER CONDEMNATION"...


Matt 7:13 -- ENTER ye in at the strait GATE, for wide is the GATE, and broad is the WAY, that leads to DESTRUCTION, and ....MANY... there be that ...GO IN thereat.


What "MANY"?? ...the SAVIOR lets us KNOW a few verses later...
composed of those who claim to ..."COME in the NAME of CHRIST" (which are "BELIEVERS"):


Matt 7:21-23 -- 21 Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall ENTER into the Kingdom of heaven; but he that DOETH the will of my Father which is in heaven [2 Pet 3:9] ... 22 MANY will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not PROPHESIED in Thy name? and in thy name, have cast out many devils? and in thy name, done many wonderful works? ... 23 and I will profess unot them, I NEVER KNEW YOU, depart ye who WORK INIQUITY

What "INIQUITY"?? ...The PERVERSION of the GOOD NEWS, and the DIVINE and MAJESTIC and GLORY FILLED, ...SUCCESS of the CROSS of CHRIST -- 1 Col 1:20 -- 2 Cor 5:19


These "MANY" still ----> "...GO IN THEREAT"

The "GATE" that is NARROW and is found in this life... is FOUND by FEW in this realm, NOT ...MANY.

The CURRENT number (not even mentioning the ones which preceeded them) of 2.5 BILLION "believers" which bear the message of DEFEAT instead of VICTORY, ...thinking they are "doing MANY wonderful works" ...can NEVER be considered FEW! Are you KIDDING ME?



The BOTTOM LINE:

The MISSION of CHRIST was to SAVE the WORLD -- John 3:16-17 -- John 1:29 -- Luke 19:10 -- 1 John 4:14 -- Either He SUCCEEDED or He FAILED... and if CHRIST FAILED, ...to SAVE the WORLD, ...then the SENDER of Him (YHVH God) also FAILED. Sorry but that makes NO SENSE (REASON) whatsoever -- Isaiah 1:18

MODERN Christianity has PERVERTED the message AND the result of the MISSION.

The WORD says that LOVE (the SENDER of CHRIST) NEVER FAILS -- 1 Cor 13:8

Argue if you must, ...but the TRUTH is that LOVE would not embark upon a mission that COULD NOT be accomplished... nor,

IN FOREKNOWN FUTILITY, ...send His SON on a mission that would result in a MAJORITY FAILURE.


PEACE...

...willieH

Timothew said:

I said I don't believe in hell because I don't believe in the traditional notion of hell as a place where the dead are alive and tortured forever until judgment day when they are finally judged for what they did and then sent back to torture-land for more torture.

If by "Hell" you were referring to "Sheol", Then I would have to change my answer. Everyone eventually dies and goes to Sheol (the grave). But Jesus said that there is a day when eveyone who is in the grave will hear his voice and come out. The resurrection day. Some come out to eternal life, and some do not receive eternal life.

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You would fit in well with the Adventists.