Who exactly are 'The Jews'?

[Cackles]

You've essentially said that a Jew is someone that lives outside of Israel. A jew is a Hebrew, a son of Abraham, and an Israelite.

But this cant be because werent some tribes into Idol worship? So how can they by Jews? They werent from Judah.

Something seems off from that. I'll have to do reaearch, but it will be very, very difficult to reasearch this when most people believe todays Jews are Judah and put DNA evidence aside.

We need to approach this pretending science says theres no more Judah. Then we need to look back and find out who these Jews really are.

It seams that God could be putting the clue right infront of our face. Jew could possibly mean a term that is theological in nature to describe those who actively rejected Christ and all that is happening today, is these people are simply identifying themselves. Because if you've seen what i've seen, youd be amazed of what they say. I'll look at the Greek and Latin tommorow as well as try to get to the bottom of this.

 

[Cackles]

WOW!! I cant believe what I'm reading about Judah!! You guys must have known and didnt tell me hehe... IM FLOORED RIGHT NOW.. DUH!! I THINK THIS IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE.. I'LL POST WHO JUDAH IS SOON..

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You've essentially said that a Jew is someone that lives outside of Israel. A jew is a Hebrew, a son of Abraham, and an Israelite.

But this cant be because werent some tribes into Idol worship? So how can they by Jews? They werent from Judah.

Something seems off from that. I'll have to do reaearch, but it will be very, very difficult to reasearch this when most people believe todays Jews are Judah and put DNA evidence aside.

We need to approach this pretending science says theres no more Judah. Then we need to look back and find out who these Jews really are.

It seams that God could be putting the clue right infront of our face. Jew could possibly mean a term that is theological in nature to describe those who actively rejected Christ and all that is happening today, is these people are simply identifying themselves. Because if you've seen what i've seen, youd be amazed of what they say. I'll look at the Greek and Latin tommorow as well as try to get to the bottom of this.

WOW!! I cant believe what I'm reading about Judah!! You guys must have known and didnt tell me hehe... IM FLOORED RIGHT NOW.. DUH!! I THINK THIS IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE.. I'LL POST WHO JUDAH IS SOON..

I would say this one commentator nailed it on the proverbial "head" concerning the Rich Man in Luke 16......IMHO

http://www.christianforums.com/t7458936-14/#post54510139
"for I have 5 brothers...." Luke 16:28

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Luke 16:28
"For I have five brothers that he may be testifying to them,
that no also they may be coming into this place of the torment/basanou <931>".;

Yielding himself to his destiny, the rich man asks one more thing of his forefather Abraham.
He pleads with him to send someone to warn his brothers, so that they may escape "this place of torment" (basanou), the testing and punishment that he was undergoing.

The fact that the rich man has five brothers is a vital clue to his true symbolic identity.

Judah, the progenitor of the Jews, was the son of Jacob through Leah (Gen. 29:35).
He had five full-blooded brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun (Gen. 35:23).

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable.

This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!


.

 

[brinny]

i thought i read somewhere that the term "Jew" derives from those originating in "Judah"....

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I would say this one commentator nailed it on the proverbial "head" concerning the Rich Man in Luke 16......IMHO

http://www.christianforums.com/t7458936-14/#post54510139
"for I have 5 brothers...." Luke 16:28

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Luke 16:28
"For I have five brothers that he may be testifying to them,
that no also they may be coming into this place of the torment/basanou <931>".;

Yielding himself to his destiny, the rich man asks one more thing of his forefather Abraham.
He pleads with him to send someone to warn his brothers, so that they may escape "this place of torment" (basanou), the testing and punishment that he was undergoing.

The fact that the rich man has five brothers is a vital clue to his true symbolic identity.

Judah, the progenitor of the Jews, was the son of Jacob through Leah (Gen. 29:35).
He had five full-blooded brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun (Gen. 35:23).

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable.

This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!


.

Judah's ancestry leading to Christ was thru Tamar, his daughter-in-law. Not such a noble history and one that would not have been recognised by the Pharisee I'm sure. Did Judah have other sons that they would have identified with more?

 

[Unix]

Jews are cool.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

i thought i read somewhere that the term "Jew" derives from those originating in "Judah"....

So does the name "Judas". Did you see this post?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7865903/#post67036619



.

 

[brinny]

Whoa! Interesting.....

kinda' brings to mind how mankind will be treacherous to Jesus....sorta' like Satan "using" and working through Judas, one of the very twelve of Jesus' disciples....

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Jews are cool.

Now this is creepy.
Another member said the exact same thing on the CF Chat Box earlier today!

http://www.christianforums.com/mgc_cb_evo.php?do=view_archives&page=1

16/02/2015 14:38 <Rubiks> Jews are cool

.

 

[Rick Otto]

Rorsarch would say the Jews are an inkblot.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

I would say this one commentator nailed it on the proverbial "head" concerning the Rich Man in Luke 16......IMHO

http://www.christianforums.com/t7458.../#post54510139
"for I have 5 brothers...." Luke 16:28

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Luke 16:28
​

Judah's ancestry leading to Christ was thru Tamar, his daughter-in-law. Not such a noble history and one that would not have been recognised by the Pharisee I'm sure. Did Judah have other sons that they would have identified with more?

I forgot all about that! Thanks for bringing it up.

Gene 38:24

And it came to pass, about three months after, that Judah was told, saying, “Tamar your daughter-in-law has played the harlot; furthermore she is with child by harlotry.” So Judah said, “Bring her out and let her be burned!”

Yahweh appears to call Judah a harlot in Jeremiah 3.
[This is talking about the House of Judah and Judah himself]......Fascinating!

Jeremiah 3:8

“Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also.




.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I forgot all about that! Thanks for bringing it up.

Gene 38:24

And it came to pass, about three months after, that Judah was told, saying, &#8220;Tamar your daughter-in-law has played the harlot; furthermore she is with child by harlotry.&#8221; So Judah said, &#8220;Bring her out and let her be burned!&#8221;

Yahweh appears to call Judah a harlot in Jeremiah 3.
[This is talking about the House of Judah and Judah himself]......Fascinating!

Jeremiah 3:8

&#8220;Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also.




.

You might find some more on that here
http://www.christianforums.com/t7495798/#post55642547

Where Sarah represents grace in human life, (Sophia wisdom)
Tamar represents truth of God's actions. (Phronesis Wisdom)

What is also seen is the northern Kingdom under Ephraim
separation from the southern tribe of Judah
symbolically and Phronesically in Ezek 16:52

Ezekiel 16:52
52Thou also, who hast judged thy sisters,
bear thine own confusion, because of thy sins
in which thou hast acted more abominably than they:
they are more righteous than thou.
So be thou ashamed also, and bear thy confusion,
in that thou hast justified (Tsaddiked) thy sisters.

It seems the righteous Tamar had overstepped Sophia Godhead's bounds.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Rorsarch would say the Jews are an inkblot.

Some here on CF have implied that my brain, and/or mind, might be an inkblots....

http://www.christianforums.com/t7438358-45/#post54125347
How to convince R. Catholics that the ('host' wafer) is not Christs flesh and bone?

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

Ahh.....I forgot to add "test" to my search....

edit to add: are you implying I have a "thought disorder"

Rorschach test - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Rorschach test also known as the Rorschach inkblot test or simply the Inkblot test, is a psychological test in which subjects' perceptions of inkblots are recorded and then analyzed using psychological interpretation, complex scientifically derived algorithms, or both.
Some psychologists use this test to examine a person's personality characteristics and emotional functioning. It has been employed to detect an underlying thought disorder, especially in cases where patients are reluctant to describe their thinking processes openly.[3]

The test takes its name from that of its creator, Swiss psychologist Hermann Rorschach.
​

Originally Posted by MrPolo

That's the one! I was not suggesting you had a thought disorder. Rather, the Rohrschach test brings out that which dwells in the mind. When you see trigger words and then show what Bible verse you thought of when someone mentioned a certain word, I think you are demonstrating how the Rohrschach test works!
​

Originally Posted by MrPolo
Do you sometimes feel the forums are a Rorschach test for you that brings out thoughts dwelling somewhere in the brain?

.

 

[Cackles]

Judah's ancestry leading to Christ was thru Tamar, his daughter-in-law. Not such a noble history and one that would not have been recognised by the Pharisee I'm sure. Did Judah have other sons that they would have identified with more?

This seems to underline what I found out.. Hehe I'll post my findings today.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Ok. I was listening to a debate tonight and they said that 'Jews' are not used in the Bible as a word, and do not refer to the context that we use today.

They said 'Hebrews' is a more correct term but someone else said that they didnt share that language abroad in synagogues during Pauls writings.

They said the Jew term refered to 'locals' in Judea and not the greater majority of Hebrews outside Israel.

This lady said that Jews are actually locals who deny Christ and by being a Jew the primary goal is to carry that torch. If they accpet Christ they cant be a Jew.

Another person said there is one Jew only under Christ as king of the Jews.

Another said theres no such thing as Jews anymore.

So I dont know what to think. i'd like to hear what you guys think.

The word "Hebrew" properly refers to any descendant of Abraham and thus likely includes non-Israelite peoples like the Ismaelites and Edomites. "Israelite" properly refers to the ethnic group descended from Jacob or to people who were subjects of the later kingdom of Israel.

In Hebrew, Jew and Judahites are both Yehudim, and in Greek, the words are also the same, Iudaioi. In the Old Testament, Yehudim before the Babylonian exile either means people of the tribe of Judah, people under the kingdom of Judah (after the split of northern Israel and southern Judah, and therefore including the tribes of Benjamin and the local Levites who had no territory), and after the exile generally means all the returning exiles who originally came from the kingdom of Judah (again, including Benjaminites and Levites) as opposed to the people of the land and the Samaritans who are Israelites but not Jews.

By the first century and through until today, it could also mean practitioners of the religion of the kingdom of Judah, Judaism. That religion was brought to its theological climax in Christianity, but it more naturally evolved into later rabbinic Judaism. However, it could still refer simply to ethnic Judaeans. In the Gospel of John, for instance, where it is most often used, it probably refers to the Judeans, that local population and especially the local leadership, who tried Christ before the high priest and where the prosecution at his Roman trial.

The Bible uses it in all these senses, but where Iudaioi refers to Christians it almost always means ethnic Jews who believe in Christ. It doesn't mean that all Christians are Jews; the term from the earlier Jewish heritage that is used to refer to all Christians is either Hebrew or Israelite. That's how Paul uses it in Philippians and the Corinthian letters. It never says all Christians are Jews; it says all Jews and non-Jews are one in Christ. But Jews in Christ can still be ethnic Jews.

In other words, we have inherited the pre-Torah identity of Israel from the covenant with Abraham and are thus his descendents, but not the post-Torah identity of Jews and Judaism that is bound to the legal constitution of the ancient kingdom of Judah, the Torah. The New Testament is pretty consistently careful about this.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

That's pretty much it. At least outside the Jewish quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem and the ultra-Orthodox neighborhoods. There are fundamentalist Jews out there, too. But I love my Jewish friends here.

 

[Grafted In]

I believe that all born again Christians (both Jew by blood and gentiles) are the only true Jews.

 

[Rick Otto]

You guys gotta check this guy out.
He converted from Judaism to Christianity and though he is extreme, he makes some interesting observations.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Brother+Nathaniel&ia=videos