Who checked?

[Kenpo]

Kenpo,

I am certain that he is speaking of The Divine Liturgy, which comes to us from St. James.

Forgive me..

Having read my posts it seems I am becoming argumentative. That is not my intention. Thank you for the conversation.

 

[Benedicta00]

really? SO, how come they aren't in my Bible?? OH let me guess..Luther took them out...yeah...okey dokey. MUST of been a REASON!

Yeah he wanted to do away with purgatry ad could not deny it unless he removed those books.

It wasn't because they were never included in the canon.

 

[Kenpo]

So.. What you are saying is that canon = list of true books (excluding all others)?

Am I correct?

Forgive me...

No what I am saying is that it is a list of books we can be sure of. Not a list of the only Truth. Surely it is possible that Truth exists outside of Scripture however we can only be sure of Scripture.

 

[Benedicta00]

mhm...ok. And on that note..I bid you all blessings and God's richest blessings.

Are you denying that scripture is written down Tradition that comes to us from the apostles?

 

[Kenpo]

Well that's a first...

I am sorry I don't understand what you mean by this.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

Are you denying that scripture is written down Tradition that comes to us from the apostles?

and you got that from where? Nothing to do with what you quoted. scripure is GOD breathed...written by SOME of the apostles. What is written is what GOD said.

 

[Kenpo]

Well if you know what the Liturgy of the Word is then I do not understand why you do not agree.

Because I don't agree that this is the purpose of Scripture. (To have something to read at Church) I believe the purpose of Scripture is to convey Truth, whether in the Liturgy, out of the Liturgy etc.

 

[Benedicta00]

No what I am saying is that it is a list of books we can be sure of. Not a list of the only Truth. Surely it is possible that Truth exists outside of Scripture however we can only be sure of Scripture.

You see that makes no sense to me because the sureness of scripture is because of the authority Christ gave to His Church.

So how does one accept the Church's authority that assures which books are inspired but not accept her authority over all?

 

[Benedicta00]

I am sorry I don't understand what you mean by this.

That it's not the first time someone around here understands the Orthodox position but disagrees with it.

I was a joke... never mind

 

[Kenpo]

You see that makes no sense to me because the sureness of scripture is because of the authority Christ gave to His Church.

So how does one accept the Church's authority that assures which books are inspired but not accept her authority over all?

Because I don't believe that either the RCC or the Orthodox Church is the New Testament Church.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

Because I don't believe that either the RCC or the Orthodox Church is the New Testament Church.

AMEN! Jesus didn't start a church. The Church is HIS body of BELIEVERS..not a denomination....

 

[Kenpo]

That it's not the first time someone around here understands the Orthodox position but disagrees with it.

I was a joke... never mind

OK

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Having read my posts it seems I am becoming argumentative. That is not my intention. Thank you for the conversation.

I don't think your being argumentative...

I think your being honest in your questions and responses.

I don't see a problem with that.

Forgive me...

 

[Benedicta00]

Because I don't agree that this is the purpose of Scripture. (To have something to read at Church) I believe the purpose of Scripture is to convey Truth, whether in the Liturgy, out of the Liturgy etc.

Now days maybe but back in the day- this was the only way ppl, because of illiteracy was able to hear God's word.

 

[Benedicta00]

Because I don't believe that either the RCC or the Orthodox Church is the New Testament Church.

And that's not the first time someone didn't believe this.

Do you realize that we pretty much know this already??

I happen to believe that the Catholic Church is the NT Church. Are you shocked?

 

[Kenpo]

Now days maybe but back in the day- this was the only way ppl, because of illiteracy was able to hear God's word.

I am not so sure that illiteracy was as big a problem as many contend. After all the Apostles were literate (at least some of them) and many of them were fishermen.

 

[Kenpo]

And that's not the first time someone didn't believe this.

Do you realize that we pretty much know this already??

I happen to believe that the Catholic Church is the NT Church. Are you shocked?

Why should I be?

 

[Benedicta00]

Um...slightly judging me aren't you?? In fact, I am not full of hate. I hate when GOD's word gets twisted to meet your tradition and thinking. BUT you are free to think what you want. BUT you might want to reconsider judging me...isn't that against your rules? YOU don't know my heart. Thanks for your input. Have a good one!

He's not judging you, he is saying in fact he can not judge you.

He is saying he can only take you at face value.

 

[Latreia]

We do, of course, realize that Protestants do not recognize it because it's not in The Holy Scriptures.

However, realize the fact, that Protestants (I used to be one...) do not recognize all of what was canonized as scripture, nor do they trust the Churches who canonized them.

It seems odd indeed that they trust scriptures at all.

Forgive me...

I did not say nor infer that it is scripture.

I said, not everything that "WAS" cononized as scripture is "NOT" recognized by Protestants as being such. IOW ~ The KJV is incomplete.

So the question turns to you as well... "How do you determine which early writings are authoritative and which are not?"

As for my answer... It's simple. I trust The Church of Antioch.

If, 150 years from now, someone decides that even fewer books should have been in "The Bible" and publish it as authorative... will you be proud of your great-grandchildren for upholing the new authorative "Bible", or rather the one you held to?

Forgive me...

From the Ascension of Isaiah chapter 11:

3. And he came into his lot. And when she was espoused, she was found with child, and Joseph the carpenter was desirous to put her away.
4. But the angel of the Spirit appeared in this world, and after that Joseph did not put her away, but kept Mary and did not reveal this matter to any one.
5. And he did not approach May, but kept her as a holy virgin, though with child.
6. And he did not live with her for two months.
7. And after two months of days while Joseph was in his house, and Mary his wife, but both alone.
8. It came to pass that when they were alone that Mary straight-way looked with her eyes and saw a small babe, and she was astonished.
9. And after she had been astonished, her womb was found as formerly before she had conceived.
10. And when her husband Joseph said unto her: "What has astonished thee?" his eyes were opened and he saw the infant and praised God, because into his portion God had come.
11. And a voice came to them: "Tell this vision to no one."
12. And the story regarding the infant was noised broad in Bethlehem.
13. Some said: "The Virgin Mary hath borne a child, before she was married two months."
14. And many said: "She has not borne a child, nor has a midwife gone up (to her), nor have we heard the cries of (labour) pains." And they were all blinded respecting Him and they all knew regarding Him, though they knew not whence He was. (http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/ascension.html)

This apochriphal text is probably the only source about the birth of Jesus that is indipendent from the Gospels - very older than the ProtoGospel of James.
The chapters 6-11 date on about the 70ad for some scolars, according others (more probable) they date about the 120ad, surely before the 135ad.

Now thats not fair. We don't know what he knows as a Church service.

Forgive me...

When I read these kind of posts, I am so at peace with this information that I begin to wonder why I was Protestant.

It is clear that my posts are not needed here any more. Guess I have said all I have to say about respect for the Blessed Virgin and shown my loving appreciation for her in my life.

I am drawn to a new position, as reader rather than poster. I am inspired to read and study, especially the Orthodox Church. It would be nice to learn if I can find more harmony and peace in my adoration of God by
finding that I may have a place there, if only in my heart.

But if, for some other causes, I do not reappear, I shall have gathered the online links shared by those scholarly among us and spend a great deal of time inquiring after that special sanctuary I have searched for my entire life.

For this new path, I give thanks to CF Catholics and most of all, to the wonderful example of OrthodxyUSA.

May you all find peace, harmony, and light in your walks with Jesus.

Amen.

 

[Benedicta00]

Why should I be?

You remind me of someone years ago who use to debate Catholics and Orthodox relentlessly and he was pretty serious too, didn't crack a smile ever, and thanks be to God, he is converting to Orthodoxy.

Pretty amazing feet if you knew him, how adamant he was in his position of how he knew what the Church purports but just believe it's wrong.