Who checked?

[HisBelovedMelody]

exactly. PLUS if the person gets baptized as an infant, I am sorry, but that infant can walk away from the catholic church and be no better off or closer to salvation. SO, in my opinion, salvation IS a decision of the heart of the person.

 

[simonthezealot]

exactly. PLUS if the person gets baptized as an infant, I am sorry, but that infant can walk away from the catholic church and be no better off or closer to salvation. SO, in my opinion, salvation IS a decision of the heart of the person.

Yes.

 

[Benedicta00]

define baptism!

being redeemed from the fall of mankind.

We do not view it as a person is 'getting saved' when they are baptized, just that they are being made a child of God and they enter into God's family.

They of course will have to go on to accept what God has done for them if they will be saved in the end.

 

[IamAdopted]

I see two baptisms.. I see the Spiritual baptism where we are baptized in to Christ and I see the one where we are baptized as an outward sign to an inner work..

 

[Benedicta00]

I see two baptisms.. I see the Spiritual baptism where we are baptized in to Christ and I see the one where we are baptized as an outward sign to an inner work..

Yeah, uh huh... that's why Paul said there is only ONE baptism for the remissions of sins.

 

[Uphill Battle]

being redeemed from the fall of mankind.

We do not view it as a person is 'getting saved' when they are baptized, just that they are being made a child of God and they enter into God's family.

They of course will have to go on to accept what God has done for them if they will be saved in the end.

and this comes from..... what?

 

[IamAdopted]

Yeah, uh huh... that's why Paul said there is only ONE baptism for the remissions of sins.

and Which one would this be bene? Just getting baptized in water does not make you a believer or deliver you from sin.. Being baptized into Christ or being born again does.. Water will just get you wet if you are not born again..

 

[simonthezealot]

being redeemed from the fall of mankind.

We do not view it as a person is 'getting saved' when they are baptized, just that they are being made a child of God and they enter into God's family.

They of course will have to go on to accept what God has done for them if they will be saved in the end.

So even though my fiance' is a born again Christian, she has never been "water baptized" if she died she'd likely go to hell in your opinion? because it is a necessary sacrement?

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

and this comes from..... what?

Scripture. Anyone who is "believer baptized" is just as vulnerable as the one who is paedobaptized. Thta is, unless you buy into that OSAS business, which is neither logically nor biblically defensible.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Scripture. Anyone who is "believer baptized" is just as vulnerable as the one who is paedobaptized. Thta is, unless you buy into that OSAS business, which is neither logically nor biblically defensible.

firstly, OSAS is bibically defensible.

secondly, what is the point of infant baptism, if even an adult baptism can be null?

and thirdly, scripture mentions squat about infant baptism.

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

So even though my fiance' is a born again Christian, she has never been "water baptized" if she died she'd likely go to hell in your opinion? because it is a necessary sacrement?

Neither Catholics nor Orthodox believe this.
Strawman.

Now let's deal with your situation: Do you think that God is more moved to grace your fiancee just because she has intellectual understanding (feeble) of what God is doing in her life? Do you think your knowledge and belief saves you?

We don't believe so. We don't believe the water saves, it is Christ alone that saves, not even faith saves, except the faith of Christ (not "faith in Christ")..
If it is grace, it requires nothing on your part- including understanding.

BUT
since Christ ORDERED baptism, those who are able and do not stand condemned. But, since God is meciful, perhaps He will forgive such insolence. After all, He's not bound to the sacraments, we are. By we, I mean those who actually believe what He has said and commanded.

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

firstly, OSAS is bibically defensible.

secondly, what is the point of infant baptism, if even an adult baptism can be null?

and thirdly, scripture mentions squat about infant baptism.

Arianism is biblically defensible- but false.
OSAS is not biblically defensible: "He who perserveres to the end shall be saved."
Unless you choose to ignore the scriptures that contradict your doctrine.

Thee is plenty of biblical and historical evidence for the entire household being baptized, but you can ignore that also.

The point of adult and child baptism is both grace and obedience. Neither infant or adult baptism is salvific in and of itself- is this news to you?

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

NO Simon, she wouldn't go to hell. Because you can go down a wet sinner and come up a wet one...water does nothing to get you into heaven. It is ALL about the blood of Jesus and what HE did for US on calvary that gets us there. Now should we be obedient and be baptized? Yes. If it doesn't happen before one dies, that won't affect their salvation.

 

[Benedicta00]

and Which one would this be bene? Just getting baptized in water does not make you a believer or deliver you from sin.. Being baptized into Christ or being born again does.. Water will just get you wet if you are not born again..

Yes it does remit sin, Paul said so and he never spoke of two baptism, no one in the bible did, with the exception of Jhon's baptism.

baptism makes you a member of God's family.

You can end the all false premises you present and the false dichotomies and at least try to understand what we believe properly and correctly.

No one says you have to agree with it, but by golly, you could know properly what it is we believe and stop tacking on false premises.

You could start by asking us questions instead of responding with ramblings of false premises, preaching at us and telling how wrong we are.

IOW, If you don't get it, just ask. I'll be happy to explain it to you correctly. I mean, how can you know that you disagree with us if you don't even know properly what it is you disagree with?

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

must you always be so offensive in your posting? You can answer without being so sarcastic and combative. Water baptism has nothing to do with salvation.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

but what IAA said is true though Bene. I don't believe what the Catholics teach on this to be true..so I could come and say you are tacking on false stuff...but it may not be in your eyes. That is ok. Water baptism is for obedience because Jesus did it..and I did it in obedience to that. I already knew Jesus before that and lived my life for Him before that. So getting baptised really didn't do 'anything' for me.

 

[Benedicta00]

must you always be so offensive in your posting? You can answer without being so sarcastic and combative. Water baptism has nothing to do with salvation.

I disagree it does have to do with redemption and one can not be saved unless they have been redeemed.

And I am not combative, just tired of members not caring to know correctly what we believe and just want to preach at us how wrong we are.

You in the stigmata thread was truly interested in what we had to say and the thread went along nicely, until others wanted to come in and tell us how unbiblical we are.

My point is, one can not know what we believe if they do not listen to us and do not care about what we have to say.

Is that too much to ask? Understand our belief right and do not perpetuate false premises of them.

Everything said here is a false understanding of what we believe baptism is.

You do not have to agree but just know what it is we do believe.

By the way, how are you feleing? better I hope. Pneumonia is nothing to play around with. I had it twice, it's horrible.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

 

[Benedicta00]

but what IAA said is true though Bene. I don't believe what the Catholics teach on this to be true..so I could come and say you are tacking on false stuff...but it may not be in your eyes. That is ok. Water baptism is for obedience because Jesus did it..and I did it in obedience to that. I already knew Jesus before that and lived my life for Him before that. So getting baptised really didn't do 'anything' for me.

I have no problem with someone disagreeing with our beliefs. I just ask that they know what we believe properly and correctly.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

I disagree it does have to do with redemption and one can not be saved unless they have been redeemed.

And I am not combative, just tired of members not caring to know correctly what we believe and just want to preach at us how wrong we are.

You in the stigmata thread was truly interested in what we had to say and the thread went along nicely, until others wanted to come in and tell us how unbiblical we are.

My point is, one can not know what we believe if they do not listen to us and do not care about what we have to say.

Is that too much to ask? Understand our belief right and do not perpetuate false premises of them.

Everything said here is a false understanding of what we believe baptism is.

You do not have to agree but just know what it is we do believe.

By the way, how are you feleing? better I hope. Pneumonia is nothing to play around with. I had it twice, it's horrible.

I understand what you are saying. I appreciate it. I may disagree with it..from what I have read you and others say. But..I guess if I beleived it I would be Catholic! LOL..but anyway.

I am feeling alright! Today is a bit rough. My ribs are hurting. But other than that..I am good. Thank you for asking.

(hugs). Thanks for being kind to me...I am really truly trying to take off my 'bad' Catholic glasses. It is hard, cause I have truly been hurt by the Catholic church...and I guess sometimes my bitterness and anger comes out. BUT that is a whole nother story that doesn't need telling here...