Makes me wonder how babies excercise free will.
Why do you wonder that? they are not bale to accept nor are the able to reject.
provided you believe in the baptism=salvation doctrine.
Correction, baptism = redemption.
I know the RCC doesn't require any cognitive acceptance of Christ with kids. It's very much like splash! your a christian now!
Thanks be to God! How free his gift of saving grace is. They may not know what is going on, but bet your britches, their soul does.
funny to hear a Catholic say that, seeing as you believe you can LOSE it with no works.
We do?
No, we lose salvation through our owm fault.
or, is already saved, and is acting in obedience.
Too bad scripture contradicts that premise, uphill.
The bible says to believe and be baptized... "everyone of you (who were present) and
receive the gift of God."
They received it through baptism, not the "moment they first believed." That's a hymn, not scripture.
There are two different types of grace we are speaking about here, one is prevenient, actual grace and the other is sanctifying grace that justifies.
Prevenient grace is what God gave to those so they could come to believe, but the
saving grace was given in baptism.
Otherwise, Christ lied on the Cross, when he spoke to the thief.
Jesus saves him, neither the baptism in water, nor the "smart choice." regadless what you think Peter said.
What saved him was baptism of desire because he was unable to receive water baptism.
where do you get THAT from?
Where do i get that from? R U serious? parents have the right to speak for their child in all matters, and this right
is God given, it's a natural law of his and the secular courts certainly did not originate this.
yet they can still go out and live a completely evil life. nice.
so can one who says the sinner's prayer, you are
really going to claim otherwise?
but you just spent the rest of the post before this statement saying that it DOES!
It redeems us from the fall of mankind and gives us all the graces we stand in need of and it gives us the three theological virtues and it also gives us the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. But these are given in seed form. They have to be grown into a living faith that saves.
So a baptized person is set- he has all he needs as a child of God to live out his life in faith and go to heaven when he dies. But he also has free will to forfit it all and go to hell if he choose sin over the beautiful gift of God.
So yes it redeems us, ie saves but one can forfeit their redemption so in that respect it is not a ticket into heaven.
that is NOT how we are born again. What you say is that someone who accepts Christ, but doesn't make it to the baptism before death is in hell, based on your argument. Very, very strange.
My argument is simple, baptism marks us with an indelible mark that says we were washed clean of the stain of Adam's sin and we were made a child of God.
One can forfeit and reject this if he chooses. His rejection can not withdraw what God gave to him.
God's promise remains with us always even if we reject it.
His promise is marked on their soul even if they are in hell. The mark that says "I was redeemed by the blood of the Lamb" remains on him. What is also on him now is... "But I threw it all away for sin and now look what I have?"
firstly, that doesn't make sense. secondly, try to wait to see what I post before you start attacking it.
I'm not on attack, you are. I am trying to patiently as I can knock down all the strawman and false premises you keep reading into my explanations.
I'll respond when I have the time... or the inclination. There is so much inconsistancy I might not even bother.
