Who cares about the age of the earth, or space?

[yeshuasavedme]

Yes I do. You can move a satellite just outside of Earth's gravitational pull, cease movement of the satellite, and visibly watch the Earth move away....getting smaller and smaller as it continues it's never-ending march around the sun.

How can you cease movement of a satellite? Please explain a "stopped" satellite: even a geo-stationary satellite revolves twice daily, around the earth -I think I read..

You can go out in the heavens and with the heavens, revolve around the earth, . Biblically speaking, the earth does not move. That is Bible fact, stated in dozens and dozens of places in the Word in several themes. The sun rises and sets, ascends and descends around the globe. It never "crosses over", but rises to its highest over any point of the globe and descends from that point in its revolutions around the globe, in its specific ordained path -which Enoch describes totally- in the revolving heavens.

 

[jonathan180iq]

How can you cease movement of a satellite? Please explain a "stopped" satellite: even a geo-stationary satellite revolves twice daily, around the earth -I think I read..

You can go out in the heavens and with the heavens, revolve around the earth, . Biblically speaking, the earth does not move. That is Bible fact, stated in dozens and dozens of places in the Word in several themes. The sun rises and sets, ascends and descends around the globe. It never "crosses over", but rises to its highest over any point of the globe and descends from that point in its revolutions around the globe, in its specific ordained path -which Enoch describes totally- in the revolving heavens.

First of all, Geostationary satellites stay above a fixed point all the time. They don't complete an orbit twice daily. They never complete an orbit. They are Geo-"stationary." That is, in regards to a fixed location on the Earth.

Also, given satellite propulsion systems, it is entirely possible to maintain a single fixed position, thus rendering the satellite "stopped" in space with regards to the movement of the Earth. To get geostationary, you need to be 22,000 miles (more of less) from sea level at the equator. Farther than that, and you perspective of the Earth is actually slower than 1 full Earth rotation. So you're still being dragged along by the Earth's gravity, but it's at a slower rate...as you get farther and farther away from the Earth.

Two runners are running a race at exactly the same speed. But suddenly, one runner begins to tire out and drops 1 second off the lap pace. After five laps, is he still one second behind or is he now five seconds behind, assuming he hasn't gotten even more tired, which would continually make the distance between the two runners even greater?

....If you understand Geostationary orbit, how can you continue to claim that the Earth doesn't move at all? Doesn't Geostationary orbit indicate that the Earth is at least rotating? Regardless of whether or not you think the Earth orbits the sun, the very concept of Geostationary orbit proves that the Earth is not immobile.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

God makes His sun rise
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Jam 1:11 For the sun is no sooner risen with a burning heat,

Not only does the sun rise, but the sun is brought forth, upon the earth

Gen 19:23
The sun was risen/brought forth upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.

Now the term for "brought forth" used in relation to the sun over the earth at any point, specifically refers to the science revealed to Enoch, of the cosmology of the heavenly bodies.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

First of all, Geostationary satellites stay above a fixed point all the time. They don't complete an orbit twice daily. They never complete an orbit. They are Geo-"stationary." That is, in regards to a fixed location on the Earth.

Ah, yes! it is the GPS satellites that orbit twice daily -I said " I think I read".

In fact most geostationary satellites are really geosynchronous. Having mean motions between 0.9 to 1.1 revolutions per day they are allowed to drift across a box before corrections are made by on board thrusters.Observing Geostationary Satellites

....If you understand Geostationary orbit,

How can it orbit if it is fixed over the earth?

 

[Jadis40]

How can it orbit if it is fixed over the earth? That's because as the earth rotates, the satellite in question is orbiting the earth at approximately the same speed.

Quoting from the wiki article on Geosynchronous orbit:

A geosynchronous orbit is an orbit around a planet or moon with an orbital period that matches the planet or moon's sidereal rotation period.[1] The term most frequently refers to objects that orbit the Earth, and this article reflects that. The synchronization of rotation and orbital period means that for an observer at a fixed location on the surface, a satellite in geosynchronous orbit returns to exactly the same place in the sky at exactly the same time each day. In principle, any orbit with a period equal to the Earth's rotational period is technically geosynchronous; however, the term is often used[2] to refer to the special case of a geosynchronous orbit that is circular (or nearly circular) and at zero (or nearly zero) inclination, that is, directly above the equator. This is customarily called a geostationary orbit.

That's part of it, but for more detail, I'd read all of the wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geosynchronous_orbit

and the other:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geostationary_orbit

 

[jonathan180iq]

How can it orbit if it is fixed over the earth?

It's called an orbit because it actually is in orbit over the Earth, it's just adjusted so that it stays relatively stationary.

It's not just floating in space above an immoveable Earth. It has to constantly be adjusted because the Earth is moving. The very reason that the revolutions aren't 1-to-1, as you quoted, is for this very reason.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

It's called an orbit because it actually is in orbit over the Earth, it's just adjusted so that it stays relatively stationary.

It's not just floating in space above an immoveable Earth. It has to constantly be adjusted because the Earth is moving. ]

But the earth is not moving. God's Word says so. His Word shows the earth was here first, and the entire heavens are stretched out from this very earth.
So in your Word of God rejecting opinion, why is the satellite moving? What makes the satelitte move, and need to be adjusted? What force is acting on it to move it so as to need adjusting?
If the earth is spinning around at about 1,000 mph, what powers the satellite to travel so fast so as to remain stationary -sort of, that is, needing adjusting to keep on course.
these things are argued @ http://www.catholicintl.com/oldgeo/geofallenstar-print.htm

The GPS satellites are exactly 22,236 miles above the earth. (All the other satellites are about 200-400 miles above the earth and go around the earth). That is the only distance that the GPS will work. Now, think about how fast that GPS would have to travel to keep up with the earth if the earth were rotating. The earth is about 8000 miles in diameter and about 24,000 miles in circumference, and thus, at the equator, the earth must rotate 1000 miles per hour in order to make one complete turn in a day. Now, think how fast a GPS would have to travel if it's diameter is twice 22,462 plus 4000 miles of the earth's radius. The Pythagorean math shows that the GPS would have to be traveling at over 6856 mph to keep up with the earth. Here are the problems with that: 1) A GPS satelitte has directed to it electromagnetic beams from all over the hemisphere of the earth. The beams come from the north, east, south and west, since many different people are "locked" into the GPS from locations all over the hemisphere. All these locations depend on the GPS satellite to be perfectly stationary so that it can send back electromagnetic beams with the same precision it received them. If it is off just a fraction of an arc second, it will not send back the signal on target. Now, considering that the GPS is supposedly traveling at 6856 miles per hour to keep up with the rotation of the earth, this means that if the GPS either slows down or speeds up by even a fraction, all the signals it sends back to earth would be off target. In other words, if the GPS suddenly went 6855 miles per hour instead of 6856 miles per hour, even for a second or two, the GPS would not send back the signal on target. Suffice it to say, there is no known mechanism of man that could keep such precise speeds for any great length of time. And it is a fact that most GPS satellites don't need adjusting for long periods of time. 2) This problem is further compounded by the fact that today's scientist believe that the earth's rotation fluctuates. The fluctuation was proposed because they could not account for the perturbations in the moon's motion around the earth in any other way. So if they believe the earth's rotation fluctuates relative to the moon, then how is a GPS satellite going to be able to keep up with the unpredictable fluctuations of the earth? The short answer is that it cannot, since it is always moving at the same speed. 3) It is known that the planets circle the sun in elliptical orbits. The moon revolves around the earth in an elliptical orbit. This means that the moon will slow down at the apogee and speed up at the perigee (the point closest to the earth). If you consult books about satellites, they will tell you that all man-made satellites must vary their speed in a similar manner. But how can GPS satellites go faster and slower to accommodate Kepler's law and yet still remain stationary over the earth? 4) Sound travels at 1100 feet per second in air, or about 1 mile (5,280 feet) in 5 seconds. In one hour sound travels 720 miles. So the GPS would have to be traveling at Mach 9.5 to keep up with the earth. To reach such speeds would take an enormous amount of fuel, yet GPS satellites stay up in the atmosphere for years and years. How is that possible if they are traveling so fast? Now here is the best answer. The GPS satellite is stationary over the earth because the earth is stationary. The GPS satellite doesn't need adjusting very often because there are few things that interfere with its stationary position at 22,236 miles above the earth.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

How can it orbit if it is fixed over the earth? That's because as the earth rotates, the satellite in question is orbiting the earth at approximately the same speed.

Well the article I pasted from above, says the satellite must travel at speed

Mach 9.5 to keep up with the earth. To reach such speeds would take an enormous amount of fuel, yet GPS satellites stay up in the atmosphere for years and years. How is that possible if they are traveling so fast? Now here is the best answer. The GPS satellite is stationary over the earth because the earth is stationary.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Let me say this again... I am not denying the word of God. You are denying what God has revealed about himself through his creation.

And to answer your question regarding the speed of the Earth vs the speed of the satellite, it's called Relative Velocity, my friend.

Let's imagine that you are on a boat and I am on the shore. You are driving along, nice and happy, in your boat doing 15 MPH. However, what you failed to realize is that you are going against the current, which just also happens to be 15 MPH that day. Your little boat speedometer reads 15 MPH, but how fast are you actually going, relative to the shore? Relative to me?

Remember, you are moving along quite quickly. But the water is really charging hard. So, relative to a fixed point (me), how fast are you going?

If you said 0 MPH, you are the winner! From my perspective, I would go as far as to say that you were stationary...

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Let me say this again... I am not denying the word of God. You are denying what God has revealed about himself through his creation.

And to answer your question regarding the speed of the Earth vs the speed of the satellite, it's called Relative Velocity, my friend.

Let's imagine that you are on a boat and I am on the shore. You are driving along, nice and happy, in your boat doing 15 MPH. However, what you failed to realize is that you are going against the current, which just also happens to be 15 MPH that day. Your little boat speedometer reads 15 MPH, but how fast are you actually going, relative to the shore? Relative to me?

Remember, you are moving along quite quickly. But the water is really charging hard. So, relative to a fixed point (me), how fast are you going?

If you said 0 MPH, you are the winner! From my perspective, I would go as far as to say that you were stationary...

So you think the satellite is moving through space at mach 9 so as to remain stationary over the earth at a height of 22,236 miles? So how does it speed up and slow down with the earth's supposed rotation fluctuating speed? What fuels that? -your boat had diesal fuel, what fuel does the satellite have, and where is it stored?

Catholic Apologetics International - Robert Sungenis
The earth is about 8000 miles in diameter and about 24,000 miles in circumference, and thus, at the equator, the earth must rotate 1000 miles per hour in order to make one complete turn in a day. Now, think how fast a GPS would have to travel if it's diameter is twice 22,462 plus 4000 miles of the earth's radius. The Pythagorean math shows that the GPS would have to be traveling at over 6856 mph to keep up with the earth. Here are the problems with that: 1) A GPS satelitte has directed to it electromagnetic beams from all over the hemisphere of the earth. The beams come from the north, east, south and west, since many different people are "locked" into the GPS from locations all over the hemisphere. All these locations depend on the GPS satellite to be perfectly stationary so that it can send back electromagnetic beams with the same precision it received them. If it is off just a fraction of an arc second, it will not send back the signal on target. Now, considering that the GPS is supposedly traveling at 6856 miles per hour to keep up with the rotation of the earth, this means that if the GPS either slows down or speeds up by even a fraction, all the signals it sends back to earth would be off target. In other words, if the GPS suddenly went 6855 miles per hour instead of 6856 miles per hour, even for a second or two, the GPS would not send back the signal on target. Suffice it to say, there is no known mechanism of man that could keep such precise speeds for any great length of time. And it is a fact that most GPS satellites don't need adjusting for long periods of time. 2) This problem is further compounded by the fact that today's scientist believe that the earth's rotation fluctuates. The fluctuation was proposed because they could not account for the perturbations in the moon's motion around the earth in any other way. So if they believe the earth's rotation fluctuates relative to the moon, then how is a GPS satellite going to be able to keep up with the unpredictable fluctuations of the earth? The short answer is that it cannot, since it is always moving at the same speed. 3) It is known that the planets circle the sun in elliptical orbits. The moon revolves around the earth in an elliptical orbit. This means that the moon will slow down at the apogee and speed up at the perigee (the point closest to the earth). If you consult books about satellites, they will tell you that all man-made satellites must vary their speed in a similar manner. But how can GPS satellites go faster and slower to accommodate Kepler's law and yet still remain stationary over the earth?

 

[pgp_protector]

So you think the satellite is moving through space at mach 9 so as to remain stationary over the earth at a height of 22,236 miles? So how does it speed up and slow down with the earth's supposed rotation fluctuating speed? What fuels that? -your boat had diesal fuel, what fuel does the satellite have, and where is it stored?

 

[jonathan180iq]

So you think the satellite is moving through space at mach 9 so as to remain stationary over the earth at a height of 22,236 miles? So how does it speed up and slow down with the earth's supposed rotation fluctuating speed? What fuels that? -your boat had diesal fuel, what fuel does the satellite have, and where is it stored?

Actually, you were driving you boat. I was on land, remember?

You are also forgetting that when satellites are launched from the surface of the Earth, they are already "traveling" through space at the same speed as the Earth.

You keep trying to ignore simple physics.

Newton's Laws of Motion


If you are driving in your car down the road at 60MPH, and you have an old rotting apple sitting in your floorboard, how fast is that apple moving?

Is it 0 MPH, because it looks like that from the driver's seat, or is it 60 MPH, because relative to everyone else around you, you, and everything in the car, is going 60 MPH? (The answer is 60 MPH)

Now, let's say you throw that apple out the window. The very moment that you release the apple, is it going 60 MPH or 0 MPH?
....the apple is still going 60 MPH. But once you release it, it begins to slow down. First 60, then 55, then 45 before it finally hits the asphault and starts bouncing down the road behind you, still trailing your car. [EDIT]

Get it?

 

[jonathan180iq]

What fuels that? -your boat had diesal fuel, what fuel does the satellite have, and where is it stored?

Spacecraft propulsion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Papias]

Please somebody explain to yesua about Newton's first law and how an orbit works. The upshot is that nearly all of the "propulsion" is from gravity as the satellite "falls" sideways. Nearly zero fuel is needed, that being only for minor course corrections. - in standard situation, no fuel at all is need to maintain a speed of 6855 miles per hour, any more than the moon needs fuel to stay in orbit at it's high rate of speed.

This is as bad as explaining why the statement that "how could elephants have survived the Cambrian explosion when they are too big to fit in holes?" is wrong.

Papias

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Please somebody explain to yesua about Newton's first law and how an orbit works.

God's Word is the "Law of creation", and the Word upholds the creation, and the earth was first and does not move, spin, turn, revolve, orbit anything in the creation, but is the center of the creation, and the source of the mayim/מים waters, between which waters the שמים heavens =mayim prefixed by ש -were stretched out.

This site can be a beginning for you to learn that The Bible doctrine of a non moving earth, from which all the heavens were stretched out between the divided waters of the created earth on day 2 of creation week of six normal evenings and mornings, has never been disproved.
Geocentrism

GEOCENTRISM

We have all been told since knee high that the earth goes around the sun. It has become such an accepted fact, that almost no one questions it. What this website will do is to show that in fact geocentrism has never been disproven; that the current theories about the universe are based on a long string of assumptions, which if changed would cause us to radically reinterpret our observations; that science has no direct proof for these assumptions, but rather chooses them as a philosophical choice; that many observations could be interpreted as proof of geocentrism (geostationism) just as readily, and in some cases more so than current big-bang, acentirc, expanding universe cosmology.

 

[pgp_protector]

Please somebody explain to yesua about Newton's first law and how an orbit works. The upshot is that nearly all of the "propulsion" is from gravity as the satellite "falls" sideways. Nearly zero fuel is needed, that being only for minor course corrections. - in standard situation, no fuel at all is need to maintain a speed of 6855 miles per hour, any more than the moon needs fuel to stay in orbit at it's high rate of speed.

This is as bad as explaining why the statement that "how could elephants have survived the Cambrian explosion when they are too big to fit in holes?" is wrong.

Papias

I don't think they're real (I hope)

 

[Jadis40]

Again, we're talking about basic physics here, and something that has been proven time and time again -

Newton's First Law states: I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.

It's the law of inertia, and I'm sure you've seen this principle in action. Have you ever been driving along in a car, made a sudden stop, and whatever objects were on the back seat or on the seat next to you ended up on the floor? Up till that point in time you, the car, and the objects on the seat were moving at the same speed. For a brief period of time, they were still moving, even though you and the car had stopped.

 

[solarwave]

I think it is quite obvious that 'yeshuasavedme' does care what science has to say so explain it will not work.

The problem here is how to read, interpret and understand the Bible. What type of books it and how is God involved in it and how is the mind of the writter involved, what are different types of writtings used to make a deeper point?

 

[jonathan180iq]

I think it is quite obvious that 'yeshuasavedme' does care what science has to say so explain it will not work.

The problem here is how to read, interpret and understand the Bible. What type of books it and how is God involved in it and how is the mind of the writter involved, what are different types of writtings used to make a deeper point?

That's what I was thinking about on the drive in this morning.
He repeatedly claims that science has yet to "prove" that the Earth orbits the Sun. He can make such statements because any proof that is provided is immediately shot down as being anti-Bible or as "calling God a liar."

I like to read the works and opinions of scientists on both sides of the "Age" fence. In doing so, I came across Dr. Jason Lisle. (He's one of the Answers in Genesis guys. LINK ) He makes a statement, time and time again, that when scientific evidence doesn't match up with what the Bible says, then the evidence is simply incorrect or that it is being interpreted incorrectly. Now, to me this seems illogical. But I think I know what he is saying.

I think his heart is certainly in the right place. But his fault is in his logic. It's not that the Bible is imperfect. It's that our interpretations are imperfect. In modern society, there are so many things about the Bible that we take out of context. We don't read them as they were written. We have Bible studies and focus on the devotional side of things. Not an actual study of the Historical context of when or why things were written. Indeed, there are aspects of the Bible that I'm sure we totally miss. And one such aspect if how to read Genesis.

 

[miamited]

Hi guys,

I'vebeenshown, asks:

Who cares about the age of the earth, or space?

I think we should all agree to put our thinking caps on as we answer this. First, let me explain that I am a YEC. I believe that the word of God is completely truthful and factual in all that it reveals to us. I understand that there are two schools of thought among Christians regarding this question. There are Christians who believe, basically, because of what mordern science has attempted to prove, that God surely must have worked out the creation through some form of evolutionary, million, billion year framework. Then there are Christians such as myself who readily accept that God created all that is within the physical realm in which we live in 6 literal days approximately 6,000 years ago. When I say 'all that is within the physical realm in which we live', I mean all that is upon, in and around the earth. Every star, every planet, every bit of dust or matter that is in all of the universe that we can see or not with our most powerful telescopes. All of it was created within 6,000 years or so.

Let's start off understanding that it is absolutely, unequivically impossible for both 'theories' to be correct. The earth and all of space is either about 6,000 years old or it is several million, billion years old. The two theories cannot coexist as 'truth'. So let's start.

The OP has posited a very good question. What does it matter? Why is it important? Who cares? Quite frankly, if we are to consider the question for its social implications or its scientific ramifications, I don't think it does matter. I can't really imagine that anyone does care. But, let's move outside of the social implications and the scientific ramifications. Instead let's look at the spiritual consequences. Let's not ask of all our friends and neighbors and co-workers, who cares? Let's go to our Creator and ask, who cares? Does God care what we believe?

What if I say, "Listen, I believe that there is something that we experience after death! I believe, because there is so much 'relgion' around the world that there has to be something that happens after we die. I believe that we may attain 'nirvana' or 'oneness with the cosmos' or 'eternal life' because so many people believe that something happens to us after we die. What I don't believe, is that there is only one way to attain whatever this 'promise' after this life is. I don't believe that some guy by the name of Jesus who walked upon the earth 2,000 years ago somehow magically made a way for me to enter 'God's kingdom' or 'eternal life' or whatever it is that Christians believe." Does God care what I believe? Does it matter, in any way, what I believe, to God? Well, what do we all think?

Here's what God's word says, and it is reported to be words that were spoken by this guy, Jesus:
John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

Hmm. Seems pretty straight forward that God says that anyone who doesn't believe in the Son is condemned. So, does it matter to God whether I believe the testimony of this man, Jesus?

Ok, now let's move to the issue at hand. Does it matter to God what we believe about the creation? We've already decided that it probably is of no value to our friends, relatives, co-workers, etc., but does it matter to God?
Isaiah 29:14 says: Therefore once more I will astound these people with wonder upon wonder; the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
Jeremiah 8:9 says: The wise will be put to shame; they will be dismayed and trapped. Since they have rejected the word of the LORD, what kind of wisdom do they have?

The wisdom of the wise will perish. What does that mean and who are the 'wise'? The wise will be put to shame. Surely, God is not referring to believers who seek wisdom that begins with the fear of the Lord. God's word gives promise for that person. Who are the wise? Could the 'wise' possibly be those whose wisdom is based on man's knowledge? If I belive that the earth and all creation is millions or billions of years old, because of what 'science' has taught me, and it turns out that that isn't the 'truth', I'm I going to be put to shame. Will I find that all the 'intelligence of the intelligent' and 'wisdom of the wise' was wrong? Will God see me as faithful if I turned away from His truth, because I was swayed by this 'intelligence of the intelligent' and the 'wisdom of the wise'?

What does God mean when He says, "My righteous ones will live by faith!" Does it just mean that I must believe in this guy, Jesus? Or does it mean that I need to live by a faith that believes, despite what the 'intelligence of the intelligent' and the 'wisdom of the wise' would try to convince me is the truth, in the whole counsel of God's word?

So, I ask. What say you? Do you believe that it matters to God what we believe? It certainly seems to me that God warns us about the 'intelligence of the intelligent' and the 'wisdom of the wise' for more reason than just to believe that Jesus died for our sins. What say you?
God bless you.
In Christ, Ted.