Who belives in evolution?

[dawiyd]

You are talking to a guy that actually said there were literal windows in the sky holding the water back from space in Noahs time.

Eurgh, I may not even bother then.

 

[Edx]

repost

No that means it LOOKS a million years old. It cant BE a million years old unless it has EXISTED for a million years. Come on, the logic isnt difficult.

 

[AV1611VET]

AV1611VET you have still failed to show me how I am wrong using the Hebrew scripture.

What Hebrew Scripture?

God said in Psalm 12:6-7 that He would preserve His word intact, yet "purified" (translated).

When the Scriptures were copied into Koine (not Classical) Greek, God superintended. Later they were translated into the Gothic Language (Byzantine Greek), again with God superintending, and finally, into the King James Bible.

The point of all this, is that it did not --- DID NOT --- go through the Classical Greek, from where we get the NIV and all those other Heinz 57 translations.

The King James Bible even has a built-in cross-referencing system that the NIV copied. Have you ever read Matthew 1:26 and wondered why JESUS is in all capital letters?

Did you read my post on how the books of the Old Testament are laid out in perfectly-balanced fashion?

The Bible is a verbal hologram, written in spread-spectrum design --- an amazing Book!

 

[Edx]

Did you read my post on how the books of the Old Testament are laid out in perfectly-balanced fashion?
!

And did you read my post asking you where the books of the Bible itself talks about but we have literally no copies of?

Ed

 

[dawiyd]

What Hebrew Scripture?

God said in Psalm 12:6-7 that He would preserve His word intact, yet "purified" (translated).

When the Scriptures were copied into Koine (not Classical) Greek, God superintended. Later they were translated into the Gothic Language (Byzantine Greek), again with God superintending, and finally, into the King James Bible.

Hebrew is the original language, if G-d was superintending the translations he wasn't paying much attention the KJV is a debauchery to the original Hebrew, no language can convey every nuance of the Hebrew language some words in Hebrew don't even translate into any other language let alone English.

Some of the special songs an example, Exodus 15 aren't a true representation to the Hebrew because of the complex structure, and if we did try to replicate the structure they wouldn't make much sense.

The point of all this, is that it did not --- DID NOT --- go through the Classical Greek, from where we get the NIV and all those other Heinz 57 translations.

Still hebrew is still the original! Unless you want to try to argue that a translation (no matter how many times it has been translated) is better than the original don't say the KJV is better than the Hebrew Torah!

The King James Bible even has a built-in cross-referencing system that the NIV copied. Have you ever read Matthew 1:26 and wondered why JESUS is in all capital letters?

Did you read my post on how the books of the Old Testament are laid out in perfectly-balanced fashion?

The Bible is a verbal hologram, written in spread-spectrum design --- an amazing Book!

THE HEBREW TORAH IS THE ORIGINAL!

 

[AV1611VET]

No that means it LOOKS a million years old. It cant BE a million years old unless it has EXISTED for a million years. Come on, the logic isnt difficult.

No --- I'm not going there. The next step is for someone to accuse God of deception. Once again --- He created this universe with age embedded. If you disagree with that, ask Him yourself.

His phone number is Jeremiah 333.

And as far as the logic you mentioned --- I'll post it again:

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

 

[Jase]

What Hebrew Scripture?

I think he is referring to the Tanakh, or just the Torah. You do know that Genesis was written in Hebrew right? You also know that Hebrew does not read the same as English right?

God said in Psalm 12:6-7 that He would preserve His word intact, yet "purified" (translated).

When the Scriptures were copied into Koine (not Classical) Greek, God superintended. Later they were translated into the Gothic Language (Byzantine Greek), again with God superintending, and finally, into the King James Bible.

The point of all this, is that it did not --- DID NOT --- go through the Classical Greek, from where we get the NIV and all those other Heinz 57 translations.

The King James Bible even has a built-in cross-referencing system that the NIV copied. Have you ever read Matthew 1:26 and wondered why JESUS is in all capital letters?

Did you read my post on how the books of the Old Testament are laid out in perfectly-balanced fashion?

The Bible is a verbal hologram, written in spread-spectrum design --- an amazing Book!

So why does the KJV have copy errors, and why do so many people use multiple Bibles to get a better idea of what was intended to be said. Are you truly claiming the KJV is perfect? And yet you criticize the Torah.... Oy Veh.

 

[gluadys]

Now if that isn't exalting Scripture, what is?

It is not exalting scripture at all, because it is not referring to scripture. The "word of God" that Paul is commending the Thessalonians for believing is his preaching of the gospel. At the time the gospel did not exist in writing. Scholars agree that Paul's letter to the Thessalonians pre-dates all of the written gospels. Therefore this is a clear reference to the "word of God" in a non-written (i.e. non-scriptural) form.

 

[dawiyd]

I think he is referring to the Tanakh, or just the Torah. You do know that Genesis was written in Hebrew right? You also know that Hebrew does not read the same as English right?

Bingo, for the point of this debate I was specially referencing the Torah, due the event of creation.

 

[Jase]

No --- I'm not going there. The next step is for someone to accuse God of deception. Once again --- He created this universe with age embedded. If you disagree with that, ask Him yourself.

What is the difference between embedded age, and appearance of age. And even if this worked for the Earth in the land we call crazyville, you can't explain the Universe and the problem it would cause with the speed of light.

And as far as the logic you mentioned --- I'll post it again:

The Lords ways are not our ways. You are a human, and should possess human logical skills. I still don't think that verse works anyone since I think God is the embodiment of logic. He can't contradict himself.

 

[Jase]

It is not exalting scripture at all, because it is not referring to scripture. The "word of God" that Paul is commending the Thessalonians for believing is his preaching of the gospel. At the time the gospel did not exist in writing. Scholars agree that Paul's letter to the Thessalonians pre-dates all of the written gospels. Therefore this is a clear reference to the "word of God" in a non-written (i.e. non-scriptural) form.

Thanks, I was gonna say that but ya beat me to it

 

[dawiyd]

So my challenge is still out there for any literal 6 day creationist to show me using the ORIGINAL Hebrew language not English, that Bereshit (Genesis) actually allows there to be a chronological six day creation.

Since AV1611VET said that I was wrong yet he can't substantiate why he is right, i'm asking any others who share his views to show why you are right an I am wrong.

 

[Edx]

No --- I'm not going there. The next step is for someone to accuse God of deception.

Which btw, you still need to answer my post about that since you were implying I was being deceptive.

Once again --- He created this universe with age embedded. If you disagree with that, ask Him yourself.

Okay, but that still means its around 6000 years old. You cant say something is a 100 or a million years old unless it actually existed for that amount of time. Otherwise "old" has no meaning at all.

His phone number is Jeremiah 333.

Uh huh.

And as far as the logic you mentioned

You sure know a lot of intimate things about God

 

[AV1611VET]

You called him an atheist, he said he is a Messianic Jew, you said that you called him an "atheist or an agnostic (atheist in training)", now you deny you called him an atheist. Dont worry I should know by now you have a selective memory.

And you're accusatory. Please show me where I said that to him, in my words. And while you're trying to find something that doesn't exist, let me say this:

I have a very high regard for Jews. They are God's chosen people; and in the end, are going to survive even over America.

The Jewish people, despite repeated attempts to obliterate them throughout history, have survived the test of time. They are so industrious, they can turn deserts into paradises, wastelands into fields of grain, and junkyards into flowering neighborhoods.

I took flack once for my stand on not sending aid to Katrina victims. My stand? I suggested sending the money to Israel, and let the Jews in America rebuild New Orleans. They'd do it much better and faster than any Japhetite could.

MY BOSS IS A JEWISH CARPENTER

 

[Jase]

Dawiyd, how different does Genesis 1 translate in Hebrew? You say in the Hebrew it doesn't convey a 6 day literal creation, but what would you say it does convey it as?

My apologies for being a Jew not so well versed in Hebrew and the Torah.

 

[Charlie V]

So my challenge is still out there for any literal 6 day creationist to show me using the ORIGINAL Hebrew language not English, that Bereshit (Genesis) actually allows there to be a chronological six day creation.

Since AV1611VET said that I was wrong yet he can't substantiate why he is right, i'm asking any others who share his views to show why you are right an I am wrong.

I'm not a 6-day creationist, nor do I know Hebrew though I've looked things up on a Concordance, but I've long suspected that translation/interpretation problems may be present, as I've discovered other translation problems on other issues.

(I personally think an excellent example is the Noah story -- which could not have spoken of a planetary flood, since the concept of a "planet" didn't exist and therefore couldn't have had an ancient Hebrew word. This by pure logic, without even knowing Hebrew. For Genesis to have claimed a planetary flood was physically impossible unless it can be demonstrated that the ancient Hebrew-speaking people knew about planets in a solar system and had a word for "planet."

Note, I'm not saying the flood was impossible, but that for someone who doesn't have a concept for "planet" to claim there was a "planetary flood" was impossible to claim. It's like saying that someone who never heard of elephants made a claim about elephants.)

I'd love to read anything (in English) that explains how the Hebrew does not allow for there to be a chronological 6-day creation!

Charlie

 

[AV1611VET]

In that case don't you dare tell me that I am wrong. When you can't even read the original language which the event of creation was written in or under stand the nuances of the Hebrew language.

You are telling me that the a literal six days creation happened, but the way Bereshit is written doesn't let there be a chronological six day creation, so unless you can show me in Hebrew why you are right, don't think you have the right to tell me I am wrong.

Don't blow a cork.

And DEFINATELY don't bring me stuff written in tongues.

Jesus made it plain that John the Baptist was the last of the Old Testament prophets, and Paul made it clear that tongues ended in 96 AD.

So take that Hebrew stuff elsewhere and stick it in someone else's face and try and convince them --- I'm not buying it one bit.

I'm an American, and I speak English, and I'll just thank you to respect that.

Until you get the idea that I'm dead serious about what my signature says --- and the fact that I'll stand behind it --- you can put me on your IGNORE list.

Otherwise pipe down.

 

[AV1611VET]

THE HEBREW TORAH IS THE ORIGINAL!

I don't want the original --- I want the final copy.

The one translated with God's supervision into MY language.

I've said this before, if someone found Paul's or Moses' autographs, and brought them to me --- I wouldn't be interested.

I've got the "purified" version --- in MY language.

Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

You just don't get it, do you?

 

[dawiyd]

Don't blow a cork.

And DEFINATELY don't bring me stuff written in tongues.

Jesus made it plain that John the Baptist was the last of the Old Testament prophets, and Paul made it clear that tongues ended in 96 AD.

So take that Hebrew stuff elsewhere and stick it in someone else's face and try and convince them --- I'm not buying it one bit.

I'm an American, and I speak English, and I'll just thank you to respect that.

I'm English and I speak English.

Until you get the idea that I'm dead serious about what my signature says --- and the fact that I'll stand behind it --- you can put me on your IGNORE list.

Then I feel very sad for you.

 

[Jase]

Don't blow a cork.

And DEFINATELY don't bring me stuff written in tongues.

Jesus made it plain that John the Baptist was the last of the Old Testament prophets, and Paul made it clear that tongues ended in 96 AD.

So take that Hebrew stuff elsewhere and stick it in someone else's face and try and convince them --- I'm not buying it one bit.

I'm an American, and I speak English, and I'll just thank you to respect that.

Until you get the idea that I'm dead serious about what my signature says --- and the fact that I'll stand behind it --- you can put me on your IGNORE list.

Otherwise pipe down.

Ok, now i'm starting to think you don't actually believe all this, you are just leading us on. I mean, tell us this has all been a joke?

In case you aren't aware of it, the Lord's name isn't English, so you are speaking in tongues. Jesus is Latin from the Greek Iesous, which is a transliteration of the Hebrew Y'shua. Aren't languages fun? Jesus spoke Hebrew and Aramaic. Why would you reject them?