Who are you?

[trophy33]

That's not very clear... Are you saying you need a brain to have a soul or spirit? Do creatures without brains have a soul or spirit? Do all creatures with brains have a soul or spirit?

What does 'general spiritual SW' mean? (I take it SW stands for 'software'). You should be aware that the brain is not like a conventional computer - 'hardware' and 'software' is not an appropriate metaphor.

Brain is a physical representation of one's mind. Mind is a spiritual concept, brain is the physical device on which it is "stored".

By soul I mean the synergy between body and spirit. A synonym to "a living creature".

Body without spirit is dead, brain without mind is just a physical object without experiencing.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Brain is a physical representation of one's mind. Mind is a spiritual concept, brain is the physical device on which it is "stored".

OK, so if I understand you, the cognitive processes of the brain that we generally call 'mind' are, to you, a 'spiritual concept' - I assume that means mind is spirit. I'm not clear what that adds to the concept of 'mind' itself.

By soul I mean the synergy between body and spirit. A synonym to "a living creature".

But what about living creatures without brains, i.e. without minds? If they don't have minds, they don't have spirits... but they're still living creatures. I don't see how it can be synonymous.

Body without spirit is dead, brain without mind is just a physical object without experiencing.

I agree that a brain without mind, i.e. some level of conscious awareness, doesn't have subjective experience, e.g. under general anaesthesia; but it isn't dead - the experiencing (conscious) mind is just one mode of brain function, and it can be enabled or disabled.

So far, the model you describe seems incoherent - if mind is a spiritual concept, i.e. spirit, and necessary for bodily life, then living creatures without minds, i.e. without brains, and temporarily disabled minds, contradict that idea by still being alive.

But the basic question remains unanswered - why add the concept of 'spirit' to 'mind'? what purpose does it serve?

 

[trophy33]

OK, so if I understand you, the cognitive processes of the brain that we generally call 'mind' are, to you, a 'spiritual concept' - I assume that means mind is spirit. I'm not clear what that adds to the concept of 'mind' itself.

But what about living creatures without brains, i.e. without minds? If they don't have minds, they don't have spirits... but they're still living creatures. I don't see how it can be synonymous.


I agree that a brain without mind, i.e. some level of conscious awareness, doesn't have subjective experience, e.g. under general anaesthesia; but it isn't dead - the experiencing (conscious) mind is just one mode of brain function, and it can be enabled or disabled.

So far, the model you describe seems incoherent - if mind is a spiritual concept, i.e. spirit, and necessary for bodily life, then living creatures without minds, i.e. without brains, and temporarily disabled minds, contradict that idea by still being alive.

But the basic question remains unanswered - why add the concept of 'spirit' to 'mind'? what purpose does it serve?

I do not equal spirit with mind as I do not equal body with brain. Brain is physical and mind is spiritual, though.

Lower creatures like for example bacterias are living on more primitive level, because their body is more primitive and therefore the spirit in them cannot create a complex experience like in higher creatures.

So, to your point - a human brain without mind would be a living organ in the primitive sense, but not in the higher sense of human personality. Living in the meaning the cells in him will still be alive, but will not create any mindful experience (experience is a spiritual thing).

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I do not equal spirit with mind as I do not equal body with brain. Brain is physical and mind is spiritual, though.

I asked you what spirit was, and you said that mind was a 'spiritual concept' - so, my mistake for assuming you meant it was spirit, but if the mind isn't spirit what is?

The brain is a physical organ of the body, it is part of the body. Are you disputing that?

Lower creatures like for example bacterias are living on more primitive level, because their body is more primitive and therefore the spirit in them cannot create a complex experience like in higher creatures.

So they do have 'spirit' (whatever that is) and so, having bodies, they also have 'soul'.

So, to your point - a human brain without mind would be a living organ in the primitive sense, but not in the higher sense of human personality.

Sure, you have no personality when you're unconscious.

Living in the meaning the cells in him will still be alive, but will not create any mindful experience (experience is a spiritual thing).

OK, so both the mind and experience are 'spiritual things' (which all vertebrates have to some degree), but what does that mean? what does it add to the concepts of thinking and experiencing? is it just an alternative label?

E.T.A. maybe it would be simpler if I just asked you for a full definition of 'spirit', 'spiritual thing', and 'soul'...

 

[trophy33]

E.T.A. maybe it would be simpler if I just asked you for a full definition of 'spirit', 'spiritual thing', and 'soul'...

Body - a physical substance (for the sake of simplicity lets say matter - particles -> atoms -> molecules -> cells -> complex bodies)
Spirit - a non-physical substance outside of space and time (given by God)
Soul - the composition of the two; an individual creature that is living in this physical world and having some experience

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Spirit - a non-physical substance outside of space and time (given by God)

OK, so if it's non-physical, how does the soul connect it to the body, i.e. how can it physically influence the body? and if it doesn't physically influence the body, how can it make a difference?

Also, does this mean that creatures that don't have experience don't have spirit, and creatures that do have experience do have spirit? If so, does that mean that someone unconscious has no spirit?

I'm trying to find out what you think spirit actually does that a physical body alone can't do.

 

[AV1611VET]

I am an adopted son of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

A sinner, saved by grace.

 

[AV1611VET]

... you should be able to tell me what's on top of my refrigerator...

Dust.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Dust.

You don't have to be God to guess that. Try again.

 

[shineyourlight]

I'm shine.

That's what you're asking, right?

 

[AV1611VET]

You don't have to be God to guess that. Try again.

That wasn't a guess.

 

[Tinker Grey]

I'm shine.

That's what you're asking, right?

You sure you're not "shiney"?

 

[Mr Laurier]

I am a creature that descended from a speck of magnificently successful blue-green algae, or something like that.

Who are you?

I am me.
The son of parents who did their best.
The boyfriend of a lovely lady.
A beer snob.
A good tenant.
An even better employee.
A higher primate... especially after eating a few of my girlfriend's cannabutter infused cookies.
A sailor, with a goal of circumnavigation..
The writer of a few terrible jazz songs about sex and love.

 

[Mr Laurier]

Ah, I am equal to God in every way?

Does that mean I can turn water into beer?

I can turn beer into urine.

 

[Mr Laurier]

Created any interesting universes lately? If you're equal to God, you should be able to tell me what's on top of my refrigerator...

Lint and mismatched Tupperware. And maybe a cat

 

[Tinker Grey]

A beer snob.

Really? Do you like only one kind or do you have a favorite in each category? If so, what are they? TIA

 

[doubtingmerle]

I am an adopted son of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ah, so one of the descendants of that blue-green algae got adopted by God?

 

[AV1611VET]

Ah, so one of the descendants of that blue-green algae got adopted by God?

If we're descendants from blue-green algae, why is blue-green algae still around?

 

[doubtingmerle]

I seriously do need the encouragement. It's good practice!

OK. I encourage you to rejoice that all the descendants in that one line from that blue-green slime all the way down to you were winners--every one! Many have lost in the struggle to survive. They never lived to have children. But not so with your ancestors or mine. They were all winners.

 

[doubtingmerle]

If we're descendants from blue-green algae, why is blue-green algae still around?

If you are a child of God, why is God still around?