Who Are We Supposed To Be Looking For???

[Bible2]

garry2 posted in message #16

"Originally Posted by Bible2
Again, 'watch" in the Bible, in the context of Jesus'
coming, simply means to 'stay awake', spiritually; it
doesn't mean to stare up in the sky looking for His
coming at any moment."

It does also mean to look, I agree with the verse.

Actually, neither of the Greek words ("gregoreuo" or
"agrupneo") translated as "watch" in connection with
the second coming of Jesus (e.g. Revelation 3:3,
Mark 13:33) mean "to look"; they both mean "to keep
awake".

 

[garry2]

Actually, neither of the Greek words ("gregoreuo" or
"agrupneo") translated as "watch" in connection with
the second coming of Jesus (e.g. Revelation 3:3,
Mark 13:33) mean "to look"; they both mean "to keep
awake".

What! "to look" isn't "to watch", I say it is.

for the ? fifth time.

 

[zeke37]

WOW..miracles do happen!!! I actually agree with everything that you said here Jesus didn't say that we wouldn't know the approximate time frame of His return. He gave us Matt 24 to follow like a road map. The next thing that I can see that is in line with the beginning of the tribulation is the abomination of desolation. Sure, His word states that no man knows the day nor the hour of His return, but we can pretty well be sure that when these things listed in Matt 24 follow in secession, it is close.


IMO the A of D is Satan himself, cast from heaven to the earth for a short season, claimg to be God...in Daniel it is described as an entity, not a condition ...and this happens when he arrives, at the half way point of the last hour/week...

the elect shall know the season, but those non elect shall not know that they are even in the hour of temptation. when it comes, they are swept up with the flood of lies that comes from the dragon, and one of two is taken in that flood...taken in deception


my point is that the A of D happens in the midst of the week, and there is a lot of action that happens before he gets here(before that midst) that is prophetic......and although the first half sees flesh men sitting in the thrones (Rev13's first beast), the leadership is from Satan and his fallen angels evil spirits...that are cast from heaven to earth, controlling and influencing them....the rise of the NWO or revised European union, or Babylon...what ever name is given to it...

this you will see, as the money changes into a world currency...


but at the half way point, when the world system fails and WW3 is eminent, Satan and his angels ar thrown out bodily from heaven to the earth for a short season...and his coming is supposed to emmulate Christ's coming...and fools the world...all but those who God chose not to be fooled (to be witnesses against the beast)....and Satan's actual arrival on the planet (antiChrist) is the event that marks the A of D...he will claim to be God(Christ Messiah) from Jerusalem...grand entrance....




I always found it odd that the bible states this..Dan 12:11-12 ~ And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12) Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Why would we be blessed coming to that particular day? Is it because we made it through that time, or because Jesus is returning? That is 45 days from the abomination of desolation being set up and us being blessed.

Blessed are they that wait....in your patience posess ye your souls...


IMO, Daniel's days are not the same as our days today...the formula for how long Daniel's prophetic days are, is given right in Daniel itself...where one event happened a long time ago, marking the start of the amount of days(we have a beginning date), and Israel coming into being again in 1948 (some argue 1967) marks the end of the parameters...but that is a span of 1000's of years, not 7 years or 3 1/2....



a day as described in Daniel's prophesies is not equal to a day for us...but more like 1.4 years each...(opinion)

the 45 days is after the forming of Israel...the setting of the shoot so to speak...45 of Daniel's days is x amount of years to us...after that time...

if you are interested, I could show you the proper math/study, and scripture and then you can make your own mind up about what it means...just going by the top of my head n=now...


but basically, waiting is good...

in His service
c

 

[Bible2]

garry2 posted in message #22:

What! "to look" isn't "to watch", I say it is.

In English, "to look" can mean the same thing as "to
watch", as in "he's looking at the TV" or "he's
watching TV". But in the Bible the original Greek
words translated into English as "watch" (in
connection with the second coming) do not mean "look"
or "watch" in the English senses of these English
words; instead, the original Greek words mean "to
stay awake".

So the Bible's exhortations that we "watch" for the
second coming don't mean that we are to "look" up
into the sky or "watch" the sky for Jesus' return
at any moment. Instead, they mean that we are to
"stay awake" spiritually, and not fall asleep, as in
fall into backsliding, into unrepentant sin. For if
we are in unrepentant sin when Jesus returns we will
lose our salvation (Matthew 24:49-51, Hebrews
10:26-29).

 

[Bible2]

zeke37 posted in message #23:

IMO the A of D is Satan himself, cast from heaven to
the earth for a short season, claimg to be God...

The abomination of desolation will be performed by
the Antichrist, after he stops the daily Mosaic animal
sacrifices which the Orthodox Jews will have been
offering before a rebuilt temple-building in
Jerusalem (Daniel 11:31).

The abomination of desolation will involve the
Antichrist sitting in the temple-building and
proclaiming himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel
11:36), and placing an image of himself in the temple
to be worshipped (Daniel 11:31b, Matthew 24:15).

The Antichrist (the beast) isn't Satan the dragon,
even though the Antichrist will be empowered by
Satan (Revelation 13:4; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

Both the Antichrist and Satan will be worshipped by
the world (Revelation 13:4).

 

[garry2]

In English, "to look" can mean the same thing as "to
watch", as in "he's looking at the TV" or "he's
watching TV". But in the Bible the original Greek
words translated into English as "watch" (in
connection with the second coming) do not mean "look"
or "watch" in the English senses of these English
words; instead, the original Greek words mean "to
stay awake".

So the Bible's exhortations that we "watch" for the
second coming don't mean that we are to "look" up
into the sky or "watch" the sky for Jesus' return
at any moment. Instead, they mean that we are to
"stay awake" spiritually, and not fall asleep, as in
fall into backsliding, into unrepentant sin. For if
we are in unrepentant sin when Jesus returns we will
lose our salvation (Matthew 24:49-51, Hebrews
10:26-29).

Yes we are to stay awake and watch, like the apostles didn't on that last night.
How many times is that you have agreed with me, 7, you don't have to, once is enough, I'm watching.

 

[zeke37]

The abomination of desolation will be performed by
the Antichrist, after he stops the daily Mosaic animal
sacrifices which the Orthodox Jews will have been
offering before a rebuilt temple-building in
Jerusalem (Daniel 11:31).

Hi there....

well, let's just say that I disagree with all of what you wrote...it seems like it is the traditional beliefs of men...hollywood and books based on bad scholastic works...like dante...and left behind...

the A of D is not a condition but an entity...see Daniel in the manuscripts...not the translations...


there will be no rebuilt temple...if you think that God wants or will allow that animal sacrifice to happen, you miss the whole point...WE are the temple of God...but God still uses symbolic visions that point to Sacrifice...but not of flesh....love and prayers...Mar12:33...



The abomination of desolation will involve the
Antichrist sitting in the temple-building and
proclaiming himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel
11:36),

not so...it is actually him, not a statue or something...as it is not a condition...Moffit's scholastic work is interesting...it is an entity.

and placing an image of himself in the temple
to be worshipped (Daniel 11:31b, Matthew 24:15).

he is the image, and he is in the temple of God (which is us Christians) claiming to be God...

The Antichrist (the beast) isn't Satan the dragon,

sure he is...the 2nd beast of Rev13 is Satan the dragon defacto, cast from heaven to the earth for a short season.

even though the Antichrist will be empowered by
Satan (Revelation 13:4; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

because it is Satan (Rev12)...cast to earth pretending to be Jesus Christ (Rev6:2, 13)

Both the Antichrist and Satan will be worshipped by
the world (Revelation 13:4).

no, both the beast's governmental system multiheaded political union(NWO) and the individual entity Satan will be worshipped...(Rev13)

in Christ's service
c

 

[Bible2]

garry2 posted in message #26:

Yes we are to stay awake and watch, like the apostles
didn't on that last night.

Actually, we aren't to stay awake and watch in the
sense of looking with our eyes for something to
happen at any moment; we are simply to stay awake
(spiritually) until Jesus returns after the
tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31).

On the night of Gethsemane, the apostles were told
to "watch" only in the original Greek sense of to
"stay awake" (Matthew 26:40). They weren't told to
watch in the sense of looking with their eyes for
something to happen at any moment.

 

[Bible2]

zeke37 posted in message #27:

the A of D is not a condition but an entity

The abomination of desolation is neither a condition
nor an entity in the sense of a person, but an act of
the Antichrist whereby he will sit in a rebuilt
temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God
(2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36), and an image of
the Antichrist which he will place in the temple to
be worshipped, after he stops the daily Mosaic
sacrifices which the Orthodox Jews will have been
offering before the temple (Daniel 11:31).

zeke37 posted in message #27:

see Daniel in the manuscripts...not the translations

The original Hebrew of Daniel 11:31,36 means the same
thing as the KJV translation.

zeke37 posted in message #27:

there will be no rebuilt temple

There will be a rebuilt temple (Revelation 11:1-2;
2 Thessalonians 2:4).

zeke37 posted in message #27:

if you think that God wants or will allow that animal
sacrifice to happen, you miss the whole point

It will be the Orthodox Jews who will show that they
missed the point of Jesus' New Covenant/Testament
sacrifice (Matthew 26:28) when they start-up again
the Old Covenant Mosaic law's animal sacrifices for
sin, which were abolished (Hebrews 10:18), along with
the Old Covenant Mosaic law itself (Hebrews 7:18-19),
on the cross (Colossians 2:14, Ephesians 2:15a).

But even though the Old Covenant Mosaic law and its
animal sacrifices for sin were abolished in their
continuing application to man, they remain completely
holy before God in themselves (Romans 7:12), so that
God will not reject the temple or the sacrifices in
themselves, but only the motive of the Orthodox Jews
in reviving them, which motive will be their unbelief
that Jesus is the Messiah and that He died for our
sins once and for all time (Hebrews 9:26b, 10:12,14).

zeke37 posted in message #27:

WE are the temple of God

That's right (2 Corinthians 6:16b), but during the
tribulation we in the Church will be the temple of
God at the same time that a temple-building in
Jerusalem will also be the temple of God (Revelation
11:1-2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4), just as in the first
century the Church was the temple of God at the same
time that a temple-building in Jerusalem was also
the temple of God (Acts 3:1, 22:17), and just as in
heaven the Church is the temple of God at the same
time that a temple-building in heaven is also the
temple of God (Revelation 11:19, 15:8).

zeke37 posted in message #27:

"[Originally Posted by Bible2]
... placing an image of himself in the temple
to be worshipped (Daniel 11:31b, Matthew 24:15)."

he is the image ...

Actually, the Antichrist is not his image, which
will be made by men (Revelation 13:14b-15), and
which will be worshipped along with the Antichrist
himself (Revelation 14:9,11, 16:2b, 19:20b, cf.
15:2, 20:4).

zeke37 posted in message #27:

the 2nd beast of Rev13 is Satan the dragon

The 2nd beast of Revelation 13 isn't Satan the
dragon, but the false prophet of the Antichrist,
who will speak "as" a dragon (Revelation 13:11) and
do Satanic miracles in the presence of the Antichrist
(2 Thessalonians 2:9, Revelation 13:14), and who will
be cast into the lake of fire with the Antichrist at
the second coming (Revelation 19:20), more than a
thousand years before Satan is cast into the lake of
fire (Revelation 20:7-10).

zeke37 posted in message #27:

"[Originally Posted by Bible2]
... the Antichrist will be empowered by Satan
(Revelation 13:4; 2 Thessalonians 2:9)."

because it is Satan

Actually, the Antichrist isn't Satan, but "the beast"
who is separate from Satan (Revelation 13:4).

Satan, "the beast", and the false prophet are three
separate people, as Revelation 16:13 proves.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

The image that will be set up for worship will be reminiscent of what happened when the 90 ft golden statue of Nebucadnezzar was set up:

Dan 3:1 King Nebuchadnezzar made an image of gold, ninety feet high and nine feet wide, and set it up on the plain of Dura in the province of Babylon.
Dan 3:2 He then summoned the satraps, prefects, governors, advisers, treasurers, judges, magistrates and all the other provincial officials to come to the dedication of the image he had set up.
Dan 3:3 So the satraps, prefects, governors, advisers, treasurers, judges, magistrates and all the other provincial officials assembled for the dedication of the image that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up, and they stood before it.
Dan 3:4 Then the herald loudly proclaimed, “This is what you are commanded to do, O peoples, nations and men of every language:
Dan 3:5 As soon as you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipes and all kinds of music, you must fall down and worship the image of gold that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up.
Dan 3:6 Whoever does not fall down and worship will immediately be thrown into a blazing furnace.”



Compare to:

Rev 13:14 Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.
Rev 13:15 He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.




Now, I'm not saying that the image will be a 90 ft tall golden anti-christ but the idea is the same.

 

[zeke37]

The abomination of desolation is neither a condition
nor an entity in the sense of a person, but an act of
the Antichrist whereby he will sit in a rebuilt
temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God
(2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36), and an image of
the Antichrist which he will place in the temple to
be worshipped, after he stops the daily Mosaic
sacrifices which the Orthodox Jews will have been
offering before the temple (Daniel 11:31).

Ya I read that the first time, and still don't buy it...no future temple...we are the temple.


The original Hebrew of Daniel 11:31,36 means the same
thing as the KJV translation.

really? are you a linguist? seriously? actually there are some differences...HE as opposed to IT



There will be a rebuilt temple (Revelation 11:1-2;
2 Thessalonians 2:4).

no, rebuilt is not in there at all, that is more tradition. We are the temple of God...now WE can find many scriptures that teach that truth...guess where Satan sits...in your forhead....your belief...

he is play acting Jesus returned and many will fall for it completely and be beguiled...wholey seduced...a supposed virgin bride in waiting, whoring after the spirituality of the antiChrist (Satan), thinking that the fallen angel is actually the Messiah returned.



It will be the Orthodox Jews who will show that they
missed the point of Jesus' New Covenant/Testament
sacrifice (Matthew 26:28) when they start-up again
the Old Covenant Mosaic law's animal sacrifices for
sin, which were abolished (Hebrews 10:18), along with
the Old Covenant Mosaic law itself (Hebrews 7:18-19),
on the cross (Colossians 2:14, Ephesians 2:15a).

fantasy, tradition...no offense...God is completely done with that system of sacrifice forever and ever...He does not want it nor will He allow it.

But even though the Old Covenant Mosaic law and its
animal sacrifices for sin were abolished in their
continuing application to man, they remain completely
holy before God in themselves (Romans 7:12), so that
God will not reject the temple or the sacrifices in
themselves, but only the motive of the Orthodox Jews
in reviving them, which motive will be their unbelief
that Jesus is the Messiah and that He died for our
sins once and for all time (Hebrews 9:26b, 10:12,14).

again, traditional belief...no temple....Satan will be sitting in Christians minds (temple) as God because because he will be pretending to be Jesus returned...believe it and you have the mark...most will believe it.


That's right (2 Corinthians 6:16b), but during the
tribulation we in the Church will be the temple of
God at the same time that a temple-building in
Jerusalem will also be the temple of God (Revelation
11:1-2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4),

no contradictions allowed...and that is really stretching it...sorry

just as in the first
century the Church was the temple of God at the same
time that a temple-building in Jerusalem was also
the temple of God (Acts 3:1, 22:17), and just as in
heaven the Church is the temple of God at the same
time that a temple-building in heaven is also the
temple of God (Revelation 11:19, 15:8).

Do you think that there is an actual building that exists that is a temple in heaven? I thought God was the temple there??? and the light??? And that we could even be made as one of the pillars in the temple of God???



Actually, the Antichrist is not his image, which
will be made by men (Revelation 13:14b-15),

those quotes do not say that at all, nor imply it.

and
which will be worshipped along with the Antichrist
himself (Revelation 14:9,11, 16:2b, 19:20b, cf.
15:2, 20:4).

na...just him as the cornerstone of the temple...if you be fooled that is...then he would sit in you as the temple...and then you would have his mark in the mind...



The 2nd beast of Revelation 13 isn't Satan the
dragon, but the false prophet of the Antichrist,
who will speak "as" a dragon (Revelation 13:11) and
do Satanic miracles in the presence of the Antichrist
(2 Thessalonians 2:9, Revelation 13:14),

same individual, totally and completely...there is one Satan, who is also the antiChrist and the false prophet...those are names and types....they are not separate....Christ is the true prophet, Satan is the false prophet....Jesus is the true Christ, Satan is the one that comes instead of Christ or antiChrist....

and who will
be cast into the lake of fire with the Antichrist at
the second coming (Revelation 19:20), more than a
thousand years before Satan is cast into the lake of
fire (Revelation 20:7-10).

the false prophet role is done away with forever...as the true Christ will be on earth defacto....that false prophet role will not work anymore...so it is figuratively done away with.

likewise, the multiheaded beast system of Rev13 (political union NWO) is also done away with....Christ is ruling on earth, and this system that the devil brings in, and the angels that are behind it, are destroyed in the lake of fire...Satan shall not have that system or that false Messiah role to play, when he is released at the very end of the Lord's Day to one more time test the children of God that are being refined in the Millennium.



Actually, the Antichrist isn't Satan, but "the beast"
who is separate from Satan (Revelation 13:4).

no, same guy...the second beast of Rev13 is the fallen angel Satan cast from heaven to the earth for a short season. The first beast is the political system that he saves and turns religous.

Satan, "the beast", and the false prophet are three
separate people, as Revelation 16:13 proves.

not at all....it proves that they are not 3 people, that is when the Word is divided properly...but that they are only one supernatural angel that is coming to fool the world.....and he has MANY roles and title and systems of influence....

you have confused the supernatural fallen angel's roles and titles and systems of influence, with people

in His service
c

 

[Bible2]

zeke37 posted in message #31:

...no future temple...we are the temple.

We are indeed the temple (2 Corinthians 6:16), but
not the only temple, for there exists at the same
time a temple-building in heaven (Revelation 15:8).

And in the first century, even after the establishment
of the temple of the Church, there remained a temple-
building in Jerusalem, which the Church still
considered to be the temple (Acts 3:1, 22:17).

It will be the same way in the tribulation: the temple
of the Church will be on the earth (Revelation
13:10, 14:12-13, 20:4) at the same time as a temple-
building in Jerusalem (Revelation 11:1-2;
2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:31).

It will be the same way in the millennium: the temple
of the Church will be on the earth (Revelation
20:4-6, 5:10, 2:26-29) at the same time as a temple-
building in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:20-21).

zeke37 posted in message #31:

Originally Posted by Bible2:

The original Hebrew of Daniel 11:31,36 means the same
thing as the KJV translation.

really? are you a linguist? seriously? actually there
are some differences...HE as opposed to IT

One doesn't have to be a linguist to be able to look
up the definitions of the Hebrew words in Daniel
11:31,36.

Nothing in the Hebrew of Daniel 11:31,36 requires
that it won't be a human being, the Antichrist, who
will commit the acts in Daniel 11:31,36, which is
the same event as 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

zeke37 posted in message #31:

Originally Posted by Bible2:

There will be a rebuilt temple (Revelation 11:1-2;
2 Thessalonians 2:4).

no, rebuilt is not in there at all, that is more
tradition.

"Rebuilt" doesn't have to be in Revelation 11:1-2 or
2 Thessalonians 2:4 for them to be referring to a
rebuilt temple-building in Jerusalem, which doesn't
exist at this time, and so will have to be rebuilt
in the future.

zeke37 posted in message #31:

...guess where Satan sits...in your forhead....
your belief...

2 Thessalonians 2:4 isn't referring to Satan sitting
in one's forehead or belief, but to the man who will
be the Antichrist sitting in a rebuilt temple-building
in Jerusalem and proclaiming himself God, after he has
stopped the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the
Orthodox Jews will have been offering before that
temple (Daniel 11:31,36).

zeke37 posted in message #31:

he is play acting Jesus returned ...

The Antichrist won't be play-acting Jesus returned,
but Christ returned, for the Antichrist will deny
that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22).

The Antichrist will also deny that Christ ever became
flesh (1 John 4:3).

So what the Antichrist could say is that a regular
man named Jesus was only temporarily indwelt by the
divine Spirit of Christ like a glass being temporarily
filled with wine.

And the Antichrist could say that now the divine
Spirit of Christ has returned to indwell him, the
Antichrist, and to be worshipped and served as God
through him, just as the divine Spirit of Christ was
worshipped and served as God through Jesus (John
20:28).

And he could go on and say that the divine Spirit of
Christ is none other than Lucifer, for Lucifer is the
morning star (Isaiah 14:12) and Christ is the morning
star (Revelation 22:16b).

Of course, the truth is that Lucifer fell from his
office of morning star (Isaiah 14:12) and became
Satan (Luke 10:18). Jesus then took over the office
of morning star (Revelation 22:16).

Nevertheless, the Antichrist will be able to deceive
the world into worshipping Lucifer and himself
(Revelation 13:4).

zeke37 posted in message #31:

Originally Posted by Bible2:

It will be the Orthodox Jews who will show that they
missed the point of Jesus' New Covenant/Testament
sacrifice (Matthew 26:28) when they start-up again
the Old Covenant Mosaic law's animal sacrifices for
sin, which were abolished (Hebrews 10:18), along with
the Old Covenant Mosaic law itself (Hebrews 7:18-19),
on the cross (Colossians 2:14, Ephesians 2:15a).

fantasy, tradition...no offense...God is completely
done with that system of sacrifice forever and ever...
He does not want it nor will He allow it.

God is completely done with sacrifice for sins forever
in their application to men, because the one-time
sacrifice of Jesus Christ for sins (Matthew 26:28) was
sufficient for men forever (Hebrews 10:12,18).

But God is not completely done with sacrifice apart
from sacrifice for sin, for at the temple-building in
the millennium people will offer sacrifices (Zechariah
14:20-21), which could be sacrifices of thanksgiving.

 

[Bible2]

zeke37 posted in message #31:

...Satan will be sitting in Christians minds (temple)
as God because because he will be pretending to be
Jesus returned...believe it and you have the mark...

Actually, belief that the Antichrist is the embodiment
of God/Christ won't be the mark of the Antichrist, for
the mark of the Antichrist will be a literal mark
scratched into the hand or forehead deep enough to
leave a permanent scar. The Greek word for "mark" in
Revelation 13:16 means "a scratch, or etching", just
as scarification is a scratching, or etching of the
skin with a sharp object in order to leave a permanent
scar of a certain design. (For example, there are some
tribes in Africa that practice scarification today,
and even on their foreheads, leaving lines of
permanent scars.)

What the Antichrist's mark/scar could look like is
three vertical lines each with a short horizontal line
at the top and toward the left, so that it will look
somewhat like three sevens in a row, but the top
strokes of the sevens will be shorter than usual. The
Antichrist could present this as the mark of Christ,
777, when actually it will be three ancient Hebrew
letters in a row, the sixth letter of the ancient
Hebrew alphabet, which also stood for the number six.
So what people will really be receiving is a disguised
form of 666 on their foreheads, whether they'll
realize it or not.

Other disguised forms of 666 which could become the
mark on people are VVV and WWW, for the sixth letter
of the ancient Hebrew alphabet, which also stood for
the number six, is transliterated as either V or W.
In this way, a disguised form of 666 (WWW) has already
been placed at the head of many website URLs on the
internet, even those of Christians.

Another disguised form of 666 which could become the
mark on people would be three sets of two thin
vertical lines, which could either look simply like
six thin vertical lines, or look like two thin
vertical lines, then a little space, then two more
thin vertical lines, then a little space, and then
two more thin vertical lines. For two thin vertical
lines represent the number 6 in a UPC-code system used
today on many products, the UPC codes of which have
two thin vertical lines at the beginning of the code,
then two thin vertical lines in the middle of the
code, and then two thin vertical lines after the end
of the code, so that a disguised form of 6-6-6 has
been placed on the products, even on Bibles.

With many websites on the internet already marked
with a disguised form of 666 (WWW) at the head of
their URLs, and many UPC-coded products already marked
with a disguised form of 666, all that the Antichrist
will have to do when he takes over the world is make
"WWW" mandatory on all website URLs which don't
currently have it, and to make the UPC-code system
which places a disguised form of 666 across the code
mandatory on all products.

And then, his final step, will be to make it mandatory
that every PERSON in the world receive a disguised
form of 666 on their hand or forehead through
permanent scarification, which will be the mark
referred to in Revelation 13:16, without which no
person will be allowed to buy or sell anything
(Revelation 13:17)

---

zeke37 posted in message #31:

Do you think that there is an actual building that
exists that is a temple in heaven?

There is indeed an actual building that exists that
is a temple in heaven. It can even sometimes get
filled with smoke so that no man can enter into it
(Revelation 15:8). It even contains an ark of the
covenant/testament (Revelation 11:19).

zeke37 posted in message #31:

I thought God was the temple there??? and the light???

God the Father and the Lamb Jesus are the temple
and the light of the city of New Jerusalem, which
contains no temple-building (Revelation 21:22-23).

zeke37 posted in message #31:

And that we could even be made as one of the pillars
in the temple of God???

Revelation 3:12 could be referring to the figurative
temple of the Church (2 Corinthians 6:16), and the
making of people into figurative pillars in the
Church (cf. Galatians 2:9).

 

[Bible2]

zeke37 posted in message #31:

Originally Posted by Bible2:

Actually, the Antichrist is not his image, which
will be made by men (Revelation 13:14b-15) ...

those quotes do not say that at all, nor imply it.

Revelation 13:14b does say that the image of the
Antichrist will be made by men:

"... saying to them that dwell on the earth, that
they should make an image to the beast" (Revelation
13:14b).

Then the False prophet will somehow bring the image
to life and make everyone worship it on pain of death:

"And he had power to give life unto the image of the
beast, that the image of the beast should both speak,
and cause that as many as would not worship the image
of the beast should be killed" (Revelation 13:15).

The Greek word translated as "image" is "eikon", which
can either mean "statue" or simply a "likeness" or
picture of something or someone, like the "icons" of
saints revered by Eastern Orthodox Christians.

We also speak of "icons" on computer screens, so that
what the "eikon" of the Antichrist could include is
not only a statue in the temple-building in Jerusalem,
but also a little picture (icon) of the face of the
Antichrist which will be made by men and mandatorily
placed and continually present somewhere on the screen
of every computer, every television, every cell phone,
every auto-navigation screen, every electronic
billboard, basically every electronic device with a
screen, so that the worshippers of the Antichrist
could feel continually "watched over" by the
Antichrist.

And indeed, they could be literally "watched" by the
Antichrist, for little cameras could be mandatorily
placed on every computer, every television, every
cell phone, every auto-navigation screen, every
billboard, every street and highway sign, every
stoplight, every street and highway light-pole, even
on some trees in the park, so that the Antichrist
could continually "watch over" his worshippers.

Of course, no man, or even army of men, could ever
possibly watch all the images transmitted by billions
of little cameras at the same time; so huge arrays of
supercomputers (like they have at the NSA) could be
programmed to continually interpret the billions of
images received at every moment in time. The computers
could be programmed to focus on any faces transmitted
by the cameras: who is in the picture, who is with
who, and where, and when. Computers can already
identify faces in a picture and even determine who
those faces belong to, if those faces have already
been entered into a database, because every face is a
little different. (Wearing dark sunglasses can prevent
a computer identifying your face through a camera,
however, because that requires determining the exact
spacing between the eyes, in conjunction with the
exact spacing between the eyes and nose, and nose and
mouth.)

But the computers could be programmed to figure out
more than just who is in a picture, for the computers
could already know the location of everyone by simply
pinging the GPS-chips on their cell phones. Also, the
computers could already know what everyone is saying
at all times, whether they're actively using their
cell phones or not, by simply sending a signal that
opens up the mics on their cell phones. (So, already,
continual locational and audio surveillance is
already available to governments).

But the Antichrist could want to know more than just
where everyone is and what they are saying; he could
want to know what they are doing as well, as in,
are they in an active state of worship of his image
or not? For what he could mandate is that his image be
worshipped five times a day at set times, and at those
times everyone will have to bow at their waist before
his image, then get down on their knees before it, and
then bow down until their foreheads touch the ground;
and then they could be required to stand back up and
do all that over again three times in a row, while
they chant some mantra like "Oh, Lord Lucifer, we
adore thee, divine Christ, our God. You are
magnificent, our wonderful Father. How we worship
thee in thy excellent brightness", etc.

So the Antichrist could want the camera-surveillance
computers to see if a worshipper is actually bowing
at the waist, then actually kneeling, then actually
bowing down with his face to the ground. Today,
computers are already being programmed to be able to
determine the bodily positions of people simply by
looking at them through a camera.

Another thing the Antichrist could want the camera-
surveillance computers to do is speak to each
worshipper individually with the voice of the
Antichrist, through the speakers of every computer,
cell phone, television, etc., owned by that
worshipper, so that each worshipper can feel like
they are actually communicating with the Antichrist
himself when they worship his image.

The computers could be programmed with artificial
intelligence software so that they could read an
individual's detailed database-profile and then
formulate personalized phrases which will then be
spoken through a voice-generating program which
exactly matches the sound of the voice of the
Antichrist. For example, as a worshipper named Mary,
a housewife with two little children, is bowing down
before the image of the Antichrist on her TV screen
at a set time, the Antichrist could speak forth to
her "Mary! Mary! My beloved handmaid! You are so
precious to me, my love. You so faithfully take care
of dear little Johnnie and Michelle, whom I have
entrusted to you, that you might raise them up to
become My servants and faithful worshippers, just as
you are. How I love thee, my Mary. How I cherish
thee, my precious dove". And poor Mary could begin to
cry with happiness over her dear Lord's kind words to
her, not realizing that they're merely the concoction
of some artificial-intelligence program running in
some supercomputer down in the basement of some
government building.

 

[Bible2]

zeke37 posted in message #31:

Originally Posted by Bible2:

The 2nd beast of Revelation 13 isn't Satan the
dragon, but the false prophet of the Antichrist,
who will speak "as" a dragon (Revelation 13:11) and
do Satanic miracles in the presence of the Antichrist
(2 Thessalonians 2:9, Revelation 13:14) ...

same individual, totally and completely...there is
one Satan, who is also the antiChrist and the false
prophet...those are names and types....they are not
separate....Christ is the true prophet, Satan is the
false prophet....Jesus is the true Christ, Satan is
the one that comes instead of Christ or antiChrist....

Lucifer the dragon and the Antichrist the beast are
two separate persons who will both be worshipped by
the world (Revelation 13:4).

The False Prophet of the Antichrist is also a
separate person from the Antichrist (Revelation
13:11-18), just as John the Baptist, the true prophet
(Luke 7:28) of the Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 3:3,
John 1:30), is a separate person from the Lord Jesus
Christ, and just as Elijah, the true prophet of YHWH
(1 Kings 18:22), is a separate person from YHWH.

Indeed, the False Prophet will do the same miracle
that Elijah the prophet did, of calling fire down
from heaven (Revelation 13:13; 1 Kings 18:37-39), but
instead of, like Elijah, doing this miracle to show
everyone that YHWH is God (for the Antichrist will
revile YHWH, Revelation 13:6), the False Prophet will
do the miracle to show that YHWH isn't God, but that
the dragon Lucifer and the Antichrist (the beast) are
God, and that an image of the Antichrist must be made
by men and worshipped (Revelation 13:14-15, 19:20).

zeke37 posted in message #31:

Originally Posted by Bible2:

... and [the False Prophet] will be cast into the
lake of fire with the Antichrist at the second coming
(Revelation 19:20), more than a thousand years before
Satan is cast into the lake of fire (Revelation
20:7-10).

the false prophet role is done away with forever...as
the true Christ will be on earth defacto....that false
prophet role will not work anymore...so it is
figuratively done away with.

likewise, the multiheaded beast system of Rev13
(political union NWO) is also done away with....
Christ is ruling on earth, and this system that the
devil brings in, and the angels that are behind it,
are destroyed in the lake of fire...Satan shall not
have that system or that false Messiah role to play,
when he is released at the very end of the Lord's
Day to one more time test the children of God that
are being refined in the Millennium.

Like the Antichrist (the beast), the False Prophet
will be an individual man who will be physically cast
alive into the lake of fire at the second coming of
Jesus Christ (Revelation 19:20), and who will still be
there in torment a thousand years later when Satan
himself is finally cast into the lake of fire
(Revelation 20:10).

zeke37 posted in message #31:

Originally Posted by Bible2:

Actually, the Antichrist isn't Satan, but "the beast"
who is separate from Satan (Revelation 13:4).

no, same guy...the second beast of Rev13 is the
fallen angel Satan cast from heaven to the earth for
a short season. The first beast is the political
system that he saves and turns religous.

The second beast of Revelation 13:11-18 is the man
who will be the False Prophet (Revelation 19:20).

The first beast of Revelation 13:1-10 is both the
empire of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:1-3) and
the man who will be the Antichrist, who will be
empowered by Lucifer (2 Thessalonians 2:9) and
worshipped along with Lucifer (Revelation 13:4), and
who will speak great blasphemies against YHWH
(Revelation 13:6), and who will sit in a rebuilt
temple and proclaim himsel God (2 Thessalonians 2:4,
Daniel 11:31,36).

zeke37 posted in message #31:

Originally Posted by Bible2:

Satan, "the beast", and the false prophet are three
separate people, as Revelation 16:13 proves.

not at all....it proves that they are not 3 people,
that is when the Word is divided properly...but that
they are only one supernatural angel that is coming
to fool the world.....and he has MANY roles and title
and systems of influence....

you have confused the supernatural fallen angel's
roles and titles and systems of influence, with
people

Actually, the Antichrist and the False Prophet are
not roles or titles of Satan, but two individual men
who will be empowered by Satan to rule the world and
do amazing miracles in the name of Lucifer the dragon
(Revelation 13:4-18, 19:20; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

Revelation 16:13 proves that Satan, the Antichrist,
and the False Prophet are not one angel, but three
different persons (one angel and two men), each with
their own mouth:

"And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out
of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of
the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet"
(Revelation 16:13).

There is no other way to "rightly divide" this verse
than to admit that it unambiguously shows the division
between the three persons.

 

[garry2]

Neither of you know much.

 

[zeke37]

We are indeed the temple (2 Corinthians 6:16), but
not the only temple, for there exists at the same
time a temple-building in heaven (Revelation 15:8).

symbolic none the less, but still, Christ is going to be the temple here on earth when He comes back... and the light there of...not some Jewish sacrificial center...that is done away with, as God teaches, for all time.

what I debate with you is not a hevenly temple in existance now, but a future Jewish temple before the Day of the Lord.

Satan will sit in the temple that exists NOW, and that is the many menmbered body of Christ...you are the temple of Christ. your body is the temple.

And in the first century, even after the establishment
of the temple of the Church, there remained a temple-
building in Jerusalem, which the Church still
considered to be the temple (Acts 3:1, 22:17).

and that temple stood and was used until 70 AD which is why the early writers called it such, but surely you don't think that those deciples sacrificed there, do you? Even if it was used for 37 years or so, those sacrifices were in vain .that temple does not exist today...

the 1st temple was ordained...the 2nd temple was ordained...the next ordained temple is the Millennial temple, which is not of brick....


John2:18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

God is done away with that system forever and ever...

1Cor3:16-17

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

this is echoed many times over...1Cor6:19, 1Cor9,

Eph2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;


12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.


no more ordinances....no Jewish sacrificial system...God won't have it...


It will be the same way in the tribulation: the temple
of the Church will be on the earth (Revelation
13:10, 14:12-13, 20:4)

where?, in Rev13 the beast is sitting in the temple that exists NOW (people's minds...hence the mark in the forehead (mind))...

Rev14, is Christ actually back on earth for the Lord's Day...that Millennial atemple is certainly not brick...it is made up of the firstfruits...

Rev20:4, the temple is not mentioned, but as it is made up of thoise that reign with Christ (and Christ as the cornerstone) then there is a Millennial temple there, but not of brick.

at the same time as a temple-
building in Jerusalem (Revelation 11:1-2;
2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:31).

no building, it is the desolator, an entity, not a condition of desolation....see Moffit's work online....the abomination of desolation is Satan, and he sits in the peoples minds, deceiving them into beliving that he is Christ returned...Satan cast here for a short time (Rev12) to play act like the Lamb of God (Rev6:2, Rev13:11) and fool the world, even Christians that do not know what to look for...

and if you are waiting for a Jewish temple to be built as one of the signs, then you will IMO not be ready for what is really coming...

It will be the same way in the millennium: the temple
of the Church will be on the earth (Revelation
20:4-6, 5:10, 2:26-29) at the same time as a temple-
building in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:20-21).

not a physical building, but US as the temple....the NT makes this abulndantly clear mnany times.

2Cor6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.


17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

so, there is no temple of brick to even look for ever....



look up "temple" in a bible seach engine, in the NT and see what you come up with....leading up to the 2Thes2 scripture, the teemple is most definitely refered to as US, the many membered body of Christ....

and then in 2Thes2, we learn that the son of Perdition will sit there....(Christ is supposed to sit in our cornerstone, remember?) but Satan is going to be cast here to earth and pretend to be Jesus Christ returned, fooling the world, and pretending to be God being worshiped as such...that is how he sits in the temple of God claiming to be God.

and then in Rev 3 we are assured that WE are the temple....an actual pillar in the temple...figurative....Rev7, more of the same if you understand the sybolism...

Rev11:1 is symbolizing the spiritual center of the believers, which is fine where the truth is (INSIDE) but outside, there is a problem...this IMO is stricktly for the final 1/2 hour before Christ comes, and there is no physical temple...this is about deception again...


now in Rev11:19, that is the heavenly center....as opposed to the earthly center that is defiled, outside of the truthfull elect...

kinda like Zec4's candlesticks/lampstands and olive trees/branches which feed the church the truth, but only a portion get it....only 2 of 7, much like Rev2-3's churches...and low and behold, we see 2 candlesticks against the beast in Rev11

One doesn't have to be a linguist to be able to look
up the definitions of the Hebrew words in Daniel
11:31,36.

I agree...but which resourses you trust makes all the differance.

Nothing in the Hebrew of Daniel 11:31,36 requires
that it won't be a human being, the Antichrist, who
will commit the acts in Daniel 11:31,36, which is
the same event as 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

look, angels are called men many times...most times actually...

Satan is the one that is going to be cast to earth in Rev12, for a short season to pretend to be Jesus Christ returned Rev13, the one that comes intead of Christ, disguised as Christ 1Cor11:15-16..instead of Christ (hence ANTI), Satan is the false prophet, Christ is the true prophet. Satan is a supernatural fallen angel with supernatural powers that we men do not have....this supernatural fallen angel (not a man) will fool the world by way of false miracles, that he is Messiah come to save them all...and get them ready for their departure...before the bad guy comes....

hence all the warnings of Christ not to look for Him here or there in that time, 'cause the fake has to come first...

the world will worship Satan (the son of Perdition) as God (Jesus) 2Thes2:4, Rev13

"Rebuilt" doesn't have to be in Revelation 11:1-2 or
2 Thessalonians 2:4 for them to be referring to a
rebuilt temple-building in Jerusalem, which doesn't
exist at this time, and so will have to be rebuilt
in the future.

no, no rebuilt temple NEEDS to be in existance to fulfill scripture.... WE are the temple of God....He said so many, many times over... which I have shown you...



2 Thessalonians 2:4 isn't referring to Satan sitting
in one's forehead or belief, but to the man who will
be the Antichrist sitting in a rebuilt temple-building
in Jerusalem and proclaiming himself God, after he has
stopped the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the
Orthodox Jews will have been offering before that
temple (Daniel 11:31,36).

again, speculation...I understand yours for at one time I shared it basically...so following the same scripture references that you just gave....

no new temple, we are the temple....no animal sacrifices, Christ did that already for us for all time, and it is certianly not something that God will want or allow a people to do, so as to get good with Him...read Hebrews for the big picture about that.

the "man" antiChrist is actually Satan the supernatural fallen angel, cast here pretending to be Jesus Christ. I did show quotes.

He shall pretend to be Jesus, fool the world and thus all prayers by the fooled believers that should go to God, will now go to him pretending to be God, thus all the sacrifices (our Love and Prayers to God) are stopped...all but the elect Christians.

God blinds some...God does this blinding on purpose...so He can save them in the Lord's Day...1Cor5:1-7
many will not see the lies and deception coming no matter how many times it is screamed at them....just as the OT prophets found out....if God has blinded them, so be it...He has His perfect reasons....and if they are believers, then they shall be refined in the Lord's Day...(Millennium)




The Antichrist won't be play-acting Jesus returned,
but Christ returned, for the Antichrist will deny
that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22).

well, I know where you get that from, but I do not buy it...He will use Christ's title as part of his deception, coming in like the Lamb of God (Rev13:11) peacefully and prosperously....not warmongering chopping off heads....

disguised as Christ (2Cor11)

by pretending to be Jesus, he is denying Jesus, but still using his name....pretending to be him returned. it is the big part of the deception.

The Antichrist will also deny that Christ ever became
flesh (1 John 4:3).

no he won't...he will pretend to be Christ....there is a difference between THE antiChrist and an antichrist spirit....

IOW, there is many spirits that deny Christ, many beliefs, many understandings that deny the Lord.....those are all antiChrist...instead of Christ......

and there is also an individual entity that is coming here instead of Christ (anti) to fool the world by his flood of lies....he brings with him his fallen angels who play act his ministers of light....a big put on to fool all those that have not studied and as such do not have the seal of God in their forhead....but have the mark of the beast.

 

[zeke37]

So what the Antichrist could say is that a regular
man named Jesus was only temporarily indwelt by the
divine Spirit of Christ like a glass being temporarily
filled with wine.

na....he will feed off of the history and belief that alread exists...he will come here instead of Christ to fool the world on purpose, as part of God's plan...even if it is Satan's free will, God is using that for the ultimite good.

And the Antichrist could say that now the divine
Spirit of Christ has returned to indwell him, the
Antichrist, and to be worshipped and served as God
through him, just as the divine Spirit of Christ was
worshipped and served as God through Jesus (John
20:28).

pure speculation...nothing but....


And he could go on and say that the divine Spirit of
Christ is none other than Lucifer, for Lucifer is the
morning star (Isaiah 14:12) and Christ is the morning
star (Revelation 22:16b).

there are two, yes...as there are two that come in Christ's name...there are two rocks, there are two because ZSatan is a deceiver and a pretender....he wants to be Christ...in Christ's place, and to be worshiped as Christ is...he shall come instead of Christ to be worshiped as Christ, looking like a lamb, speaking as a dragon....cast here for a short season....

only the elect will not be fooled completely...and the elect are ALL Christians who are sealed before any destruction begins in Rev7's 4 winds...they are from all 12 tribes including Judah, not some bunch of strickly Jewish converts...fantasy. They all follow the Lamb where ever He goes (Rev14)

Of course, the truth is that Lucifer fell from his
office of morning star (Isaiah 14:12) and became
Satan (Luke 10:18). Jesus then took over the office
of morning star (Revelation 22:16).

fantasy....Christ was always the mercy seat...from before this foundation...Lucifer was a protecting cherub who was like Michael...an arch angel. Christ did not take over any role...Satan has always wanted to be Christ since he fell....

Nevertheless, the Antichrist will be able to deceive
the world into worshipping Lucifer and himself
(Revelation 13:4).

antiChrist is Lucifer/Satan, cast to earth for a short season...defacto...IOW by force....see what the 2nd beast of Rev13 does, and compare...it is the same one that looks like a lamb.


God is completely done with sacrifice for sins forever
in their application to men,

including Israel....both houses....Jews and the scattered abroad...

because the one-time
sacrifice of Jesus Christ for sins (Matthew 26:28) was
sufficient for men forever (Hebrews 10:12,18).

but you seem to be saying something else???

But God is not completely done with sacrifice apart
from sacrifice for sin, for at the temple-building in
the millennium people will offer sacrifices (Zechariah
14:20-21), which could be sacrifices of thanksgiving.[/quote]

ahhhh, there is the BUT....well, how about you think of it this way...to keep it from being a contradiction, it is probably a symbolic reference pointing to sacrifice, but not animal sacrifice....instead, the sacrifice that God wants is love and prayer...the kind He gets today from Christians, right?

Actually, belief that the Antichrist is the embodiment
of God/Christ won't be the mark of the Antichrist, for
the mark of the Antichrist will be a literal mark
scratched into the hand or forehead deep enough to
leave a permanent scar.

na...it is the same thing as it is in the OT...a belief....what you believe, what you do...the chip fantasy is speculation even if it is physically possible....it was not a chip in the Exodus and it is not a chip today...no FORCED MARK could ever tell anyone what I really believed...that is just silliness...

you shall be marked, either of sealed of God or marked of the beast....

Exodus 13, Deut 11

The Greek word for "mark" in
Revelation 13:16 means "a scratch, or etching", just
as scarification is a scratching, or etching of the
skin with a sharp object in order to leave a permanent
scar of a certain design. (For example, there are some
tribes in Africa that practice scarification today,
and even on their foreheads, leaving lines of
permanent scars.)

actually the "mark" in Ezekiel 9 is the Hebrew letter "t"....pretty cool eh? Same mark...

and there are scars that happen with Satan's mark...scars that last a 1000 years...but that can be healed....

What the Antichrist's mark/scar could look like is
three vertical lines each with a short horizontal line
at the top and toward the left, so that it will look
somewhat like three sevens in a row, but the top
strokes of the sevens will be shorter than usual. The
Antichrist could present this as the mark of Christ,
777, when actually it will be three ancient Hebrew
letters in a row, the sixth letter of the ancient
Hebrew alphabet, which also stood for the number six.
So what people will really be receiving is a disguised
form of 666 on their foreheads, whether they'll
realize it or not.

absolute pure speculation...use some bible to explain your understanding....this is silliness...

Other disguised forms of 666 which could become the
mark on people are VVV and WWW, for the sixth letter
of the ancient Hebrew alphabet, which also stood for
the number six, is transliterated as either V or W.
In this way, a disguised form of 666 (WWW) has already
been placed at the head of many website URLs on the
internet, even those of Christians.


more silliness...


Another disguised form of 666 which could become the
mark on people would be three sets of two thin
vertical lines, which could either look simply like
six thin vertical lines, or look like two thin
vertical lines, then a little space, then two more
thin vertical lines, then a little space, and then
two more thin vertical lines. For two thin vertical
lines represent the number 6 in a UPC-code system used
today on many products, the UPC codes of which have
two thin vertical lines at the beginning of the code,
then two thin vertical lines in the middle of the
code, and then two thin vertical lines after the end
of the code, so that a disguised form of 6-6-6 has
been placed on the products, even on Bibles.

silliness

With many websites on the internet already marked
with a disguised form of 666 (WWW) at the head of
their URLs, and many UPC-coded products already marked
with a disguised form of 666, all that the Antichrist
will have to do when he takes over the world is make
"WWW" mandatory on all website URLs which don't
currently have it, and to make the UPC-code system
which places a disguised form of 666 across the code
mandatory on all products.

silliness again...

And then, his final step, will be to make it mandatory
that every PERSON in the world receive a disguised
form of 666 on their hand or forehead through
permanent scarification, which will be the mark
referred to in Revelation 13:16, without which no
person will be allowed to buy or sell anything
(Revelation 13:17)

lol, well we disagree completely...there will be a new system with a new currency, but no where is a chip needed to implement this...just the world currency and world govmnt....that will happen, but the chip is not the mark, even if it is real.v The mark is a thing of belief...what is between your eyes....behing your forhead. and I ahve shown you what it is to ahve God's mark, as a rememberance.....what you believe and stand for...not something forced.

There is indeed an actual building that exists that
is a temple in heaven. It can even sometimes get
filled with smoke so that no man can enter into it
(Revelation 15:8). It even contains an ark of the
covenant/testament (Revelation 11:19).

could be a real building...I don't think so personally, but it is symbolic...but that is only opinion. Either way, we already have an explanation of who and what the temple is made up of in the Millennium, and it is not brick....so God will not be using such a system to redeem a people to Him...or else Christ's sacrifice was in vain..that whole line of thought is opposite of the message....

God the Father and the Lamb Jesus are the temple
and the light of the city of New Jerusalem, which
contains no temple-building (Revelation 21:22-23).

So we agree that there shall be no physical Millennial temple that is made up of bricks/stone? So you must think that there is a temple that will be built and then destroyed again?



Revelation 3:12 could be referring to the figurative
temple of the Church (2 Corinthians 6:16), and the
making of people into figurative pillars in the
Church (cf. Galatians 2:9).

it is for overcomers, who shall be part of the foundation of the temple of God...the thing that holds up the temple....that is why the firstfrutis (those Gathered at the 2nd Coming) are reigning and ruling with Christ for the 1000 year Day of the Lord, where many will receive the refining that they need...(all us hypocrites shall be refined in the Millennium if it be possible)

 

[zeke37]

Revelation 13:14b does say that the image of the
Antichrist will be made by men:

"... saying to them that dwell on the earth, that
they should make an image to the beast" (Revelation
13:14b).

symolism....much of prophesy is symbolism.

Then the False prophet will somehow bring the image
to life and make everyone worship it on pain of death:

na, he will claim to be Jesus....he is the image...

"And he had power to give life unto the image of the
beast, that the image of the beast should both speak,
and cause that as many as would not worship the image
of the beast should be killed" (Revelation 13:15).

The Greek word translated as "image" is "eikon", which
can either mean "statue" or simply a "likeness" or
picture of something or someone, like the "icons" of
saints revered by Eastern Orthodox Christians.

We also speak of "icons" on computer screens, so that
what the "eikon" of the Antichrist could include is
not only a statue in the temple-building in Jerusalem,
but also a little picture (icon) of the face of the
Antichrist which will be made by men and mandatorily
placed and continually present somewhere on the screen
of every computer, every television, every cell phone,
every auto-navigation screen, every electronic
billboard, basically every electronic device with a
screen, so that the worshippers of the Antichrist
could feel continually "watched over" by the
Antichrist.

sorry, but this is speculation beyond the norm...

And indeed, they could be literally "watched" by the
Antichrist, for little cameras could be mandatorily
placed on every computer, every television, every
cell phone, every auto-navigation screen, every
billboard, every street and highway sign, every
stoplight, every street and highway light-pole, even
on some trees in the park, so that the Antichrist
could continually "watch over" his worshippers.

watched is not mentioned, but Satan is supernatural...a fallen angel that will be here himself, personally...

Of course, no man, or even army of men, could ever
possibly watch all the images transmitted by billions
of little cameras at the same time; so huge arrays of
supercomputers (like they have at the NSA) could be
programmed to continually interpret the billions of
images received at every moment in time. The computers
could be programmed to focus on any faces transmitted
by the cameras: who is in the picture, who is with
who, and where, and when. Computers can already
identify faces in a picture and even determine who
those faces belong to, if those faces have already
been entered into a database, because every face is a
little different. (Wearing dark sunglasses can prevent
a computer identifying your face through a camera,
however, because that requires determining the exact
spacing between the eyes, in conjunction with the
exact spacing between the eyes and nose, and nose and
mouth.)

you should really stop this line of though, you are headed for deception...big time dude...follow the bible pattern of the mark....
But the computers could be programmed to figure out
more than just who is in a picture, for the computers
could already know the location of everyone by simply
pinging the GPS-chips on their cell phones. Also, the
computers could already know what everyone is saying
at all times, whether they're actively using their
cell phones or not, by simply sending a signal that
opens up the mics on their cell phones. (So, already,
continual locational and audio surveillance is
already available to governments).

But the Antichrist could want to know more than just
where everyone is and what they are saying; he could
want to know what they are doing as well, as in,
are they in an active state of worship of his image
or not? For what he could mandate is that his image be
worshipped five times a day at set times, and at those
times everyone will have to bow at their waist before
his image, then get down on their knees before it, and
then bow down until their foreheads touch the ground;
and then they could be required to stand back up and
do all that over again three times in a row, while
they chant some mantra like "Oh, Lord Lucifer, we
adore thee, divine Christ, our God. You are
magnificent, our wonderful Father. How we worship
thee in thy excellent brightness", etc.

Satan is supernatural and can probably hear what we all say, but not what we think....he is an angel...a supernatural angel who has supernatural abilities, enough to fool the world.

So the Antichrist could want the camera-surveillance
computers to see if a worshipper is actually bowing
at the waist, then actually kneeling, then actually
bowing down with his face to the ground. Today,
computers are already being programmed to be able to
determine the bodily positions of people simply by
looking at them through a camera.

Another thing the Antichrist could want the camera-
surveillance computers to do is speak to each
worshipper individually with the voice of the
Antichrist, through the speakers of every computer,
cell phone, television, etc., owned by that
worshipper, so that each worshipper can feel like
they are actually communicating with the Antichrist
himself when they worship his image.

The computers could be programmed with artificial
intelligence software so that they could read an
individual's detailed database-profile and then
formulate personalized phrases which will then be
spoken through a voice-generating program which
exactly matches the sound of the voice of the
Antichrist. For example, as a worshipper named Mary,
a housewife with two little children, is bowing down
before the image of the Antichrist on her TV screen
at a set time, the Antichrist could speak forth to
her "Mary! Mary! My beloved handmaid! You are so
precious to me, my love. You so faithfully take care
of dear little Johnnie and Michelle, whom I have
entrusted to you, that you might raise them up to
become My servants and faithful worshippers, just as
you are. How I love thee, my Mary. How I cherish
thee, my precious dove". And poor Mary could begin to
cry with happiness over her dear Lord's kind words to
her, not realizing that they're merely the concoction
of some artificial-intelligence program running in
some supercomputer down in the basement of some
government building.

you gotta really start to look for bible references instead of this interpretation of sci-fi....fantasy....the bible interprets itself just fine...

 

[zeke37]

Lucifer the dragon and the Antichrist the beast are
two separate persons who will both be worshipped by
the world (Revelation 13:4).

nope...same dude...Satan is the antiChrist...the first beast of Rev13 is not an entity, it is a political world union...a multiheaded national alliance.

The False Prophet of the Antichrist is also a
separate person from the Antichrist (Revelation
13:11-18), just as John the Baptist, the true prophet
(Luke 7:28) of the Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 3:3,
John 1:30), is a separate person from the Lord Jesus
Christ, and just as Elijah, the true prophet of YHWH
(1 Kings 18:22), is a separate person from YHWH.

again, speculation, and not based on the types and the prophesy that we already have about that time....there is not two individuals, but only one....who is called botht he fales prophet, for CHRIST was the prophet and anyone that is not a real prophet is a false prophet which this antiChrist surely is....(Tit1:12)

Indeed, the False Prophet will do the same miracle
that Elijah the prophet did, of calling fire down
from heaven (Revelation 13:13; 1 Kings 18:37-39), but
instead of, like Elijah, doing this miracle to show
everyone that YHWH is God (for the Antichrist will
revile YHWH, Revelation 13:6), the False Prophet will
do the miracle to show that YHWH isn't God, but that
the dragon Lucifer and the Antichrist (the beast) are
God, and that an image of the Antichrist must be made
by men and worshipped (Revelation 13:14-15, 19:20).

the false prophet does what the antiChrist does....same dude...not different....and the references that you have to a false prophet, is only in Rev and Acts1, not any other place to form an opinion...yours is really just speculation...

Acts 1, the guys name was BarJesus....think about that....

so that is our basis....and from that we can know that the devil, cast here to earth is going to be a false prophet, not a real prophet of God...and he is going to come here disguised as the Lamb of God.

Like the Antichrist (the beast), the False Prophet
will be an individual man who will be physically cast
alive into the lake of fire at the second coming of
Jesus Christ (Revelation 19:20), and who will still be
there in torment a thousand years later when Satan
himself is finally cast into the lake of fire
(Revelation 20:10).

huh? the antiChrist is the devil, who is also the false prophet...there is only one, not three??? What seems to be throwing you is that Satan has roles and titles....many of them....

the beast system (political beast of Rev13) is to be done away with as is the false prophet role (antiChrist) upon the real Messiah's arrival.



The second beast of Revelation 13:11-18 is the man
who will be the False Prophet (Revelation 19:20).

which is the antiChrist, who is Satan cast to heaven to the earth for a short season...the son of Perdition is only Satan....(maybe Judas in type) as Satan is sentenced to soul death to be turned to ashed from within....this son of Perdition IS Satan who IS going to be cast here to earth for a short season.

The first beast of Revelation 13:1-10 is both the
empire of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:1-3)

no, it is a multiheaded political union.

and
the man who will be the Antichrist,

no man will be the antiChrist, it is a role specifically reserved for Satan

who will be
empowered by Lucifer (2 Thessalonians 2:9)

same dude....

and
worshipped along with Lucifer (Revelation 13:4),

same guy, but your reference is for the political beast (NWO)

and
who will speak great blasphemies against YHWH
(Revelation 13:6),

claiming to be Him, would qualify...

and who will sit in a rebuilt
temple and proclaim himsel God (2 Thessalonians 2:4,
Daniel 11:31,36).

rebuilt is never mentioned....infact Jesus says opposite...we are the temple that Christ is the cornerstone for, which was already rebuilt 3 days after the crucifixion...by Christ....and we are it.



Actually, the Antichrist and the False Prophet are
not roles or titles of Satan, but two individual men
who will be empowered by Satan to rule the world and
do amazing miracles in the name of Lucifer the dragon
(Revelation 13:4-18, 19:20; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

I know that you believe this, but it is not based on the bible...it is fantasy and hollywood and fictional books....truly it is not properly dividing the Word of God.


the false prophet does what you thinkt he antiChrist does,...they are the same entity, not a posessed man, but the devil cast out of heaven to the earth for a short season. ..called antiChrist because he comes instead of Christ, and called the false prophe because he is not a real prophet...he does not speak for God as a real prophet would....Satan is the false prophet, as opposed to the real prophet (Isaiah 9)

Revelation 16:13 proves that Satan, the Antichrist,
and the False Prophet are not one angel, but three
different persons (one angel and two men), each with
their own mouth:

I know that this is symbolic, not literal...the type, the role and the power....they are not individual....the beast is the political uniont that Satan physically leads with the fallen angels as kings, the false prophet is the role that Satan plays, and the dragon is Satan's heavenly title.

"And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out
of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of
the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet"
(Revelation 16:13).

There is no other way to "rightly divide" this verse
than to admit that it unambiguously shows the division
between the three persons.

unless you understand that there is only one entity, and a political system (multiheaded beast) an entity capable of fooling to entire world, and the demonic power behind it all which will not be destroyed until after the Lord's Day is completed...Satan leads the political beast, Satan is teh fallen angel cast to earth for a short season and Satan is the dragon whop has been after the woman since before the foundations of the world.

Neither of you know much.

coming from you, that is a real compliment...thank-you.

in His service
c