- May 17, 2014
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Ok...
How about the fact that the welfare system that exists today wasn't even close to being formed in 1900? Disability? Forget it. Workmans comp? Nope. Social security, food stamps, free emergency care, ....even public education. I mean, I'm sure public schools existed by 1900...but I'd be really surprised if more than 10-15% of kids graduated from one by 1900.
What does that mean in practical terms? If those immigrants who came way back when didn't work....they starved....and likely died. If that happened, I doubt many shed a tear for them either.
Italy in 1900 was a perfectly civilized country.
Right -- things are a lot better off today than they were 100 years ago.
Remind me again how that killed The American Dream?
Not a lot shed tears for them now... some things haven't changed. "If they would rather die, perhaps they should do so, an decrease the surplus population."
It's almost as if you expect me to address your points while you ignore mine.
All I want to know is what killed the American Dream -- why can't you address that?
You asked specifically what was different between then and now.
I can quote you if you like.
And we've moved on. Which of those details killed the American Dream?
And we've moved on. Which of those details killed the American Dream?
Lol you've moved on...specifically without addressing a single point I made.
Would you at least be willing to admit we can only absorb a certain amount of uneducated poor people before the vast majority of the population suffers a dramatic decline in quality of life?
My question was the address.
That has always been the case, or at the very least, has always been the argument... it was used against admitting the Chinese, the
Italians, the Irish, the Polish, etc... and every time without exception, the fears have proved to be unfounded.
Now it's time to dust off the argument and use it in the Hispanics... the difference, of course, is that you have helpfully pointed out that we have a safety net in place that we didn't have in the past, so even in the absolute worst case scenario of them being completely useless (which we already know is not the case), America will survive.
I see.
The biggest Irish migration was less than 2 million people...and it took place over 40 years.
The biggest Polish wave was about 1.5 million over 50 years.
The biggest Chinese wave I could find didn't come close to either of those two.
And of course, none of this comes close to the tidal wave of poor uneducated people coming to the US from central America. Sorry, you're comparing apples and oranges here. At least 1 in 32 people are here illegally...and the only reason it isn't higher is because half a million get nationalized every year to offset the half million or so that pour in.
I'm not sure if you understand the basics of this...the more people drawing from that safety net, the less people put into it, the worse things will get. If things go downhill....that safety net won't be there for everyone.
You don't have to be a Harvard economics professor to figure this out. Things aren't improving in Guatemala, Honduras, and much of central America. At some point we have to say enough is enough....and stop the bleeding...or we go down with them.
This problem won't get better over the years....it'll just get worse unless we make some effort.
That has always been the case, or at the very least, has always been the argument... it was used against admitting the Chinese, the
Italians, the Irish, the Polish, etc... and every time without exception, the fears have proved to be unfounded.
What proved them unfounded? Historically, the US took action regarding these types of immigration. Congress passed laws in the 1920's strictly limiting Southern and Eastern European immigration. Chinese immigration was outright banned as early as 1882. These immigration laws designed to preserve the historic ethnic composition of the United States stayed on the books until 1965. We started moving into uncharted territory after that.
Our economy is struggling...barely treading water. The gap between rich and poor just grows greater...and the amount of debt that each individual holds, and we hold as a nation, grows larger.
You overlooked an important fact: our nation is much larger now, in terms of both population and infrastructure. These things make a difference.
So who says things are going downhill?
But that day is not today. No need to cower behind ineffective walls just yet.
Effort to do what, exactly?
why do individuals have greater debt?
living beyond their means?
And? Where's the part where you explain how that makes us capable of taking on an endless stream of poor?
Every conventional indicator. Global climate change isn't slowing down...increased disparities between rich and poor....increased humanitarian crises caused by overpopulation.
Let's say I believe you....when is the time?
Why should we wait until this reaches crisis level to act? Would it kill us to think ahead for once?
Hold onto what we have, culturally, institutionally, nationally, etc.
I don't know how optimistic you are, but I think if this continues to go the direction it's going now...
Then possibly 15-20 years from now we'll see a guy elected on a "shoot them as they try to get in" border policy. It's kind of inevitable at this point...both sides refuse to act.
I don't see Trump's election as a good thing. It's not a sign of less corporate control over politics, its an increase. Corporations have no interest in healthcare, education, clean environments, etc...but they do have an interest in a readily available crop of poor uneducated to mop floors and pick crops.
The idea that this is about race is leftist nonsense...they could be as white as the driven snow, its the same problem.
Right -- its about rich people getting poor people to blame poorer people so that they don't rise up and hang the rich people...
But if you notice that, you're an evil Socialist.
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